Lost ball - stroke and distance, or 2 strokes?

shorthitter wrote:

sunny wrote:

If the 2nd ball is beautifully in the middle of fairway, you can 'help' your opponent find his ball that is in terrible lie.

You can, but it is his choice, "dont look I declare it lost "is his call, the same as the only person that can decide if a ball is unplayable is the player, not an opponent....

Thanks, SH. That clears things up.

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ngekngek wrote:

hi,
From what i understand(correct me if i'm wrong, If your ball is lost into a hazard marked by red stake then you get one stroke penalty and to take a short closest to the point where you lost the ball. If your ball enter and area that is marked by white line and stakes then you are penalize 2 stroke and to retake the shot closest to the spot where you last hit.

lt

Yes almost correct, the first is closet to the " point of entry" into the hazard. The second is not 2 strokes, it is what they call stroke and distance, which means you have to go back to where you last hit from... drop the ball (1 stroke) then hit again.....

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Technospaz wrote:

shorthitter wrote:

sunny wrote:

If the 2nd ball is beautifully in the middle of fairway, you can 'help' your opponent find his ball that is in terrible lie.

You can, but it is his choice, "dont look I declare it lost "is his call, the same as the only person that can decide if a ball is unplayable is the player, not an opponent....

Thanks, SH. That clears things up.

but what if you found the ball even if he declare it lost? I thought if it is a p ball, you still got to play it if it is in play. Only if you are hitting it as a 3rd shot rather than p ball then your opponents cannot help you find.

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Technospaz wrote:

sunny wrote:

If the 2nd ball is beautifully in the middle of fairway, you can 'help' your opponent find his ball that is in terrible lie.

This raises a good question. As SH said, the golfer can elect not to look for his first ball BUT, can the opponent insist and what happens if the opponent does find the first ball (whether through insistence or by accident)?

see my above post. If you choose to play a third shot, your opponent cannot help you look. If you play a p ball, if it is found to be in play, your p ball cease to exist.

That is why you have to state if you are playing p ball if you re tee

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.

If I declare it is lost.. game over. I can walk straight to my Provisonal and keep playing.

The other little known one, is that I can hit my provisional more than once, till I get to my first ball, and then abandon provisional and play the original....

getting confusing?????

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Say on a short par 4, you hit a ball into deep rough and may be lost. You play a p ball, hit it short this time to keep it in play. Approach perfectly to within a foot or two to make a simple bogey. According to you, you can declare the first ball lost. But what if when your opponent goes up and found the ball sitting deep behind trees and insist your p ball cease to be in play cos original is found?

He got a gd point. P ball cannot be an insurance shot.

_________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.

Well this is why the commentators on tv say the rules can work for you as well as against you....

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

The key words here are identified by the player, you being my opponentt may find it but if I dont want to no about it, tough for you...

If it was a short par 4 then i would want you to find it, i am sure I could get it around the green and chip up and save par, I dont need to make bogey no matter how easy it is....

Very Happy

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Haha. I'll take a easy bogey anyday

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We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit.

sunny wrote:

Haha. I'll take a easy bogey anyday

Big girls blouse... birdies rule!!!!!

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Junior Golfer Posts: 221 Join date: 2009-06-22

S70B wrote:

You are always suppose to hit a provisional if you suspect that ur ball is lost. There is no rule on dropping and adding 2 strokes.

Sometimes, its done because its oni a social round and failure to hit a p ball means having to walk all the way back to where u last hit a shot. Not very practical if there is already bunching up of flights and golfers behind alr.

Agree on hitting a p-ball whenever suspect lost ball.. but i'm talking more like i hit the ball centre of fairway, and bloody sure it was there but just can't seem to find it.

So let's clear this up once and for all. There's no ruling that allows you to drop where your ball was "likely" to be, and take a 2 stroke penalty; and only the stroke and distance penalty applies to a lost ball.

Even if you decide to use the 2 stroke penalty in a social game, just remember it's not an official ruling!

Thanks for the quick answers from the experts here

Newbie Golfer Posts: 11 Join date: 2009-06-19

sunny wrote:

Say on a short par 4, you hit a ball into deep rough and may be lost. You play a p ball, hit it short this time to keep it in play. Approach perfectly to within a foot or two to make a simple bogey. According to you, you can declare the first ball lost. But what if when your opponent goes up and found the ball sitting deep behind trees and insist your p ball cease to be in play cos original is found?

He got a gd point. P ball cannot be an insurance shot.

27-2
b.When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play

The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the
original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1).

Therefore, if already made bogey, the lost ball which was found subsequently, is considered lost.

If approach shot has made (but before you putt) and the lost ball was found (by your opponent etc), and

a) if the approach shot was made around or nearer the hole than the lost ball, the lost ball is to be discarded and the approach shot is valid;

b) else, the approach shot is to be cancelled and the lost ball becomes ball-in-play.

Not sure abt it but this is what i thot...

Newbie Golfer Posts: 11 Join date: 2009-06-19

shorthitter wrote:

Well this is why the commentators on tv say the rules can work for you as well as against you....

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

The key words here are identified by the player, you being my opponentt may find it but if I dont want to no about it, tough for you...

If it was a short par 4 then i would want you to find it, i am sure I could get it around the green and chip up and save par, I dont need to make bogey no matter how easy it is....

Very Happy

Ehh... if a player intentionally ignore the found ball... can we invoke, say rule 1-2, since it has enabled him to gain significant advantage?

Any case of previous rulings?

This is a good thread. Good points made.

OB A bit: I just realized that TS became Course Marshal? No longer Caddie liao...

Golf Professionals Posts: 43 Join date: 2009-08-27

eswing wrote:

shorthitter wrote:

Well this is why the commentators on tv say the rules can work for you as well as against you....

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

The key words here are identified by the player, you being my opponentt may find it but if I dont want to no about it, tough for you...

If it was a short par 4 then i would want you to find it, i am sure I could get it around the green and chip up and save par, I dont need to make bogey no matter how easy it is....

Very Happy

Ehh... if a player intentionally ignore the found ball... can we invoke, say rule 1-2, since it has enabled him to gain significant advantage?

Any case of previous rulings?

In this situation mentioned by esswing, the applicable rule is 27-2c when provisional ball to be abandoned. ...... ie player must continue play with the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing wrong ball and the provision of Rule 15-3 apply.

Newbie Golfer Posts: 11 Join date: 2009-06-19

Alan wrote:

eswing wrote:

shorthitter wrote:

Well this is why the commentators on tv say the rules can work for you as well as against you....

• c. Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes
If a ball is lost as a result of not being found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player's side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it, the player must play a ball, under penalty of one stroke, as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5).

The key words here are identified by the player, you being my opponentt may find it but if I dont want to no about it, tough for you...

If it was a short par 4 then i would want you to find it, i am sure I could get it around the green and chip up and save par, I dont need to make bogey no matter how easy it is....

Very Happy

Ehh... if a player intentionally ignore the found ball... can we invoke, say rule 1-2, since it has enabled him to gain significant advantage?

Any case of previous rulings?

In this situation mentioned by esswing, the applicable rule is 27-2c when provisional ball to be abandoned. ...... ie player must continue play with the original ball. If he makes any further strokes at the provisional ball, he is playing wrong ball and the provision of Rule 15-3 apply.

Thanks for clarifying !!