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 Green Side Bunker Shots

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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:53 am

@ Bird...Once I get settled...I will be available. I love golf and I love helping people. There is nothing better than seeing the look on someones face when they get what you are telling them.

I will be happy to help you with your game at some point during my stay. It would be the least that I could do during or after our round.

As for the free lessons. Since I am an Am again...all lessons from here on out are free. The pros are the ones who deserve to get paid as they are working the long hours and dealing with all that comes with being a pro. I have nothing but respect for all those guys who do that. I lost the passion...luckily there are people who continue to help people day in and out, but will never lose the respect for those who do that.


Last edited by DRGjr72 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:56 am; edited 2 times in total
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JonL_TK
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:54 am

Birdman wrote:
JonL_TK wrote:
@ Birdman... TMCC has grass range too!!!
Fairway condition with excellent short game practice area

We go practice one day okay???

On....

Aiyo... I was just there yesterday at the range for the Paula Creamer clinic, blur like sotong. Bunker is great, green and fringe like carpet, and yes, the far end of the range has great turf to hit from. Very Happy
Seriously... BO JIO!!! Why leh???
Can i get a players pass from you so can go eat free lunch with them?
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:55 am

@ Dan... Free Lessons??? Wowzor...
You should "demand" some beer for giving tips!!! Haha
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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:00 am

@ JonL....I would love some beer for some tips...Sounds like a fair trade for those who are supplying the beer... Beer I used to get a pretty good rate per hour in the states which equates to alot of beer!!!!!

I kid though...it is all about having fun for me now. I have learned to love golf again. When I can get out it is a treat, not a job like it used to be. My game has suffered unfortunately, although there are a few rounds here and there when I can still get it in under par..which is a nice treat.

My goal is to play some golf...pass on some knowledge, learn more about the game, current technology with equipment, and swing theories (there are some pretty good ones out there right now)...and teach my kid how to play the game.





Last edited by DRGjr72 on Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:04 am

JonL_TK wrote:
Birdman wrote:
JonL_TK wrote:
@ Birdman... TMCC has grass range too!!!
Fairway condition with excellent short game practice area

We go practice one day okay???

On....

Aiyo... I was just there yesterday at the range for the Paula Creamer clinic, blur like sotong. Bunker is great, green and fringe like carpet, and yes, the far end of the range has great turf to hit from. Very Happy
Seriously... BO JIO!!! Why leh???
Can i get a players pass from you so can go eat free lunch with them?

Sorry, I was helping out la, very limited access to just six lady golfers. It was an all ladies clinic. And it was amazing to see how far open Paula laid her club face to play out of the bunker. I do what she do, I sure shank the ball.

Pass, you want, you can have mine, can collect tomorrow, DGman has my number. Can't eat in players lounge, but can be right outside. And still can eat, just different quality la..


Last edited by Birdman on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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JonL_TK
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:06 am

Birdman wrote:
Pass, you want, you can have mine, can collect tomorrow, DGman has my number. Can't eat in players lounge, but can be right outside. And still can eat, just different quality la..
What kind of "Pass" is it? I had like 24 Members Pass this past week... All given out liao...
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:09 am

Dan, I wouldn't impose on you for the free lessons, just having a round with a former PGA pro is a treat in itself. I have eyes, I can learn, and I have ears, for when you tell your stories of the tour. Very Happy

But who am I to refuse an offer? ROFL

Good to have you here in Golf Republic.
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:33 am

I also think that alot of people fail in the bunker shot when they open their stance and clubface is because they forgotten about weight shift and focus too much on hand action. I am no exception as I sometime forgotten all about it in the course as I don't practise greenside bunker shot regularly like the PRO.
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bogeyman
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:05 pm

But I thot u're not supposed to do weight shift for the bunker shots as advised by Gary Player whereby he says to open your legs wider so that one will not start swaying and to cock the wrist early for a steeper angle of attack. Pls correct me if I'm mistaken, but this works everytime for me. It minimizes my body movement so lesser chances of mistake since this is not going to be a shot that I need lots of distance, but just enuf to get the ball out.

Just wanna share some inputs...Cheers!
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:18 pm

Turbo wrote:
I also think that alot of people fail in the bunker shot when they open their stance and clubface is because they forgotten about weight shift and focus too much on hand action. I am no exception as I sometime forgotten all about it in the course as I don't practise greenside bunker shot regularly like the PRO.

I'm guilty of it too. We're told to have a stable base in the sand, widen our stance and dig in, so we freeze our lower bodies and swing flat footed trying to scoop the ball out with a handsy swing made worse with a reverse weight shift. Open face coupled with wrong technique equals disaster.

The slow mo video earlier in this thread of the pro playing out of a bunker is evidence of a weight shift, his right heel is off the sand on the follow through.
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:27 pm

bogeyman wrote:
But I thot u're not supposed to do weight shift for the bunker shots as advised by Gary Player whereby he says to open your legs wider so that one will not start swaying and to cock the wrist early for a steeper angle of attack. Pls correct me if I'm mistaken, but this works everytime for me. It minimizes my body movement so lesser chances of mistake since this is not going to be a shot that I need lots of distance, but just enuf to get the ball out.

Just wanna share some inputs...Cheers!

Bogeyman, swaying is when the body moves from side to side, thereby moving your point of contact in the sand. Shifting your weight in the bunker is not so much on the backswing but on the downswing, moving the weight over to your left side. Two very different things.

If you watch Golf Channel long enough, you'll see Gary Player's video tips on playing out of a bunker. Watch and you'll see that he also shifts his weight through the ball.

Or watch this video. See how the player's right foot comes off the sand as a result of shifting his weight to the left?


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JonL_TK
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:50 pm

Have been using the iPhone/iPad app "GolfPlan" which comes with instructions from Paul Azinger... Simple instructions that if followed to the tee will instill confidence in getting out of bunkers

Attached a couple of videos which i feel makes sense... there are other videos by Paul Azinger on youtube

Bunker Shot Physics


Distance Control


Right Arm Motion


Fried Egg


Oval Drill



I choose to practice at NSRCC (Changi) cos they have a bunker to practice there... TMCC range closes at 9pm so its out of the question

I tend to practice 50-70 balls out of the bunker... to just get a comfortable feeling
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:05 pm

Great stuff Jon, and easy to understand.

Learned a new view too, on how weight distribution relates to distance. Never quite saw it that way.

It simplifies the steep versus shallow angle of attack theory, or V versus U swing shape, something I always had difficulty with.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:07 pm

Yup... by playing with the weight distribution... it def helps out of the MBGC bunkers
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punkrockpga
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:25 pm

great stuff everybody.

here is my two cents.....

-first and foremost, get the job done, any way you can, even if you have to use your driver

-if i know that my student can't or wont spent a bunch of time practicing bunker shots and all that they want to do is keep a bunker situation from ruining their round, then it will likely be a square face, stance, and hack it out type of lesson, of course with particulars to suit the individual

-if they are looking to hit the soft landing controlled, get it close to the hole type of shot, then I am in favor of a little open clubface, a little open stance, correct ball position and learn how to use the bounce correctly. now, when you make adjustments to the clubface and the stance and the ball position, there are suddenly new variables that come into play, for example, swing path, but i'll get into details in a minute when I share my ideas about what I think many people do wrong in the bunker, however I am of the belief that a slightly open face increases the bounce and can be helpful if the conditions call for it.

-the most common error that i see from the people who do open the club face and the stance (and i think that a lot of people do this because that's what they see everywhere, even though they don't understand what to do beyond the setup) has to do with the swin path.
when we set up to a normal golf shot with a square clubface and a square stance, etc, etc, we have to swing the club on a path that is consistent with the alignment of our feet, target line and so on. (now i'm sure there are some exceptions but as a general rule i don't think that there is a shot in golf where the path of you club should not be consistent with the alignment of your feet)
so anyway..... the player sets up with feet aligned left of the target and clubface pointed right, with hopes to get the ball to come out somewhere between the two, but forgets that the path of the club should be swinging consistent with feet, not clubface. so... moves the club face straight back which ends up bringing the golf club way inside (relitive to the alignment of the feet) behind the body, in a super shallow or flat movement that ends up hitting the sand way to far behind the ball or hitting the ball right on the forehead because it lacks the angle of attack that it needs to get down under that ball as it needs to, and then wants to cry, or swear, or something afterwords.
when.... bringing that golf club back on a path that is consistent with the feet will make it a little steeper and give it the up and down type of motion that is a key part of taking enough sand to exicute the shot. (wow, too much information i know, and it's a lot simpler than it sounds, and if that all makes sense to you, great, and if it doesn't, you're probably better off to not even try and pretend that you didn't even read that)

anyway, bottom line, just get the job done however best suits your needs. maybe you could just putt it out, backwards, or better yet, just don't hit it in the bunker.

-one last thing that i think ties in to it all. the lie and the sand conditions play a huge role in how the shot can best be played, hard soft barried, whatever, and that goes far beyond bunkers. I think that a lot of players who are new to the game or have not yet been taught these things, just don't know how to identify situations where the ball or the club are going to react differently than a normal shot, perfect lie on the fairway. I'm not sure how many times I have told my students, "I'm sorry but you can't use your 3 wood out of that rough because there is just too much grass between the clubface and the ball and there is not enough loft on your golf club and it just isn't going to work. I know you want to get maximum distance but it just isn't going to happen because of the lie. "
That's the kind of stuff that comes with experience and just simply playing a lot of golf. Of course you coach can teach it to you in theory, but it's something that generally won't register completely until you have experienced different lies and different situations again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

but that's another topic all together

good luck with your bunker shots!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:14 pm

Birdman wrote:
Tituman wrote:
At this point here, I would like to request the mods to accord DRGjr72 a red color nick to indicate that he is a teaching pro now in Singapore. Without this distinction, some unaware weekend heroes might attempt to try and teach him how to play golf thinking he is just one of the forerunners here. Thank you.

titu

Sorry Titu, no can do. Andy is a former PGA pro who has resigned his membership. He doesn't teach professionally too. He's just an amateur now, like the rest of us. Very Happy

Oh..my bad BM. Thought I read that he was teaching somewhere. Guess I must have mistaken him for someone else then.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:31 pm

No worries Titu, I just thought it strange that since spider got 8 eyes, would have seen things 4 times better than us mere humans. ROFL

Kidding! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:44 pm

@punkrockpga...... in a super shallow or flat movement that ends up hitting the sand way to far behind the ball or hitting the ball right on the forehead because it lacks the angle of attack that it needs to get down under that ball as it needs to, and then wants to cry, or swear, or something afterwords.


Are you talking about me ????? I said are you talking about me????? ...aka Robert De Niro Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad

Ha ha...you are are dead correct referring to me Pro. Thats what always happened to me....sigh.. Sad In bunker, I just try to get it out in 1 and that would make me a happy man... lol! ROFL

titu
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:49 pm

Birdman wrote:
No worries Titu, I just thought it strange that since spider got 8 eyes, would have seen things 4 times better than us mere humans. ROFL

Kidding! Very Happy

Oh sh.. !!! Now you let everybody knows I am a fake.... ROFL ROFL ROFL

titu
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:02 pm

I like to share 1 trick shot I performed when I was in a pothole bunker at MBGC. The ball was too near the front wall and I could not hit it forward, sideways or backwards. I improvised a shot which I saw an old Korean man performed successfully, who had joined my flight as a single player and now become a good friend who always calls me for a game whenever he comes to Singapore to tend to his business. I aimed at the front wall of the bunker which was made of stacks of wood at a 45 degree angle hoping for the ball to bounced off the wall and out, behind the bunker. I hit it according to plan but the ball instead of bouncing backwards, it did a boomerang spin going backwards spinning right to left, ending and landing outside the bunker 20 feet infront of my stance. I was laughing like a clown after the shot. Think Golfchow was there and witnessed the shot. Golf God was with me that day!!!!! What a Face

titu
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:59 pm

Tituman wrote:
I like to share 1 trick shot I performed when I was in a pothole bunker at MBGC. The ball was too near the front wall and I could not hit it forward, sideways or backwards. I improvised a shot which I saw an old Korean man performed successfully, who had joined my flight as a single player and now become a good friend who always calls me for a game whenever he comes to Singapore to tend to his business. I aimed at the front wall of the bunker which was made of stacks of wood at a 45 degree angle hoping for the ball to bounced off the ............................

If the ball travels according to plan, it is perfectly ok. But what happens if the ball ricocheted (against the wall) at you? affraid
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:31 am

Turbo wrote:
Tituman wrote:
I like to share 1 trick shot I performed when I was in a pothole bunker at MBGC. The ball was too near the front wall and I could not hit it forward, sideways or backwards. I improvised a shot which I saw an old Korean man performed successfully, who had joined my flight as a single player and now become a good friend who always calls me for a game whenever he comes to Singapore to tend to his business. I aimed at the front wall of the bunker which was made of stacks of wood at a 45 degree angle hoping for the ball to bounced off the ............................

If the ball travels according to plan, it is perfectly ok. But what happens if the ball ricocheted (against the wall) at you? affraid

Possible, so need to weigh the pros and cons of playing such a shot, also aim for the ball to rebound away from you to lessen the risk. And like lighting a firecracker, you don't just stand there and wait for the inevitable to happen right? Best to be ready to move out of the way too.

I saw a friend do the same rebound shot by accident once, left me in stitches, and I also got the idea to try it once out of the MBGC bunkers. It works, but I tried to hit the ball such that it contacted the bunker wall with a more ascending angle, so that it went backwards over my head. Hitting a low shot directly into the wall instead of with a glancing blow also adds the risk of the ball being embedded, and I didn't want to make my situation any worse.

Shots like this are never 100% and should only be played when left with no choice. Most times, I'd rather take my medicine and come out sideways or backwards with a direct shot.


Last edited by Birdman on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:42 am

A rare lesson on bunker play from a gifted genius.

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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:20 am

Turbo wrote:
Tituman wrote:
I like to share 1 trick shot I performed when I was in a pothole bunker at MBGC. The ball was too near the front wall and I could not hit it forward, sideways or backwards. I improvised a shot which I saw an old Korean man performed successfully, who had joined my flight as a single player and now become a good friend who always calls me for a game whenever he comes to Singapore to tend to his business. I aimed at the front wall of the bunker which was made of stacks of wood at a 45 degree angle hoping for the ball to bounced off the ............................

If the ball travels according to plan, it is perfectly ok. But what happens if the ball ricocheted (against the wall) at you? affraid

Bro do not aim right infront of you like a normal shot. I said I aimed 45 degrees angle in front of me, so the ball was supposed to ricochet away from you. In that instance, it must have hit a certain edge of the wood at an angle causing a left to right spinning effect, thus becomes a boomerang spinning left to right. It was calculated but lucky in the sense that it ended up with a boomerang effect. Hope you get the picture.
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PostSubject: Re: Green Side Bunker Shots   Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:24 am

Birdman wrote:
Turbo wrote:
Tituman wrote:
I like to share 1 trick shot I performed when I was in a pothole bunker at MBGC. The ball was too near the front wall and I could not hit it forward, sideways or backwards. I improvised a shot which I saw an old Korean man performed successfully, who had joined my flight as a single player and now become a good friend who always calls me for a game whenever he comes to Singapore to tend to his business. I aimed at the front wall of the bunker which was made of stacks of wood at a 45 degree angle hoping for the ball to bounced off the ............................

If the ball travels according to plan, it is perfectly ok. But what happens if the ball ricocheted (against the wall) at you? affraid

Possible, so need to weigh the pros and cons of playing such a shot and aim also aim for the ball to rebound away from you to lessen the risk. And like lighting a firecracker, you don't just stand there and wait for the inevitable to happen right? Best to be ready to move out of the way too.

I saw a friend do the same rebound shot by accident once, left me in stitches, and I also got the idea to try it once out of the MBGC bunkers. It works, but I tried to hit the ball such that it contacted the bunker wall with a more ascending angle, so that it went backwards over my head. Hitting a low shot directly into the wall instead of with a glancing blow also adds the risk of the ball being embedded, and I didn't want to make my situation any worse.

Shots like this are never 100% and should only be played when left with no choice. Most times, I'd rather take my medicine and come out sideways or backwards with a direct shot.

Birdie, from your comment, I know you understand what I did even though I did not explained well. I hit it so that the ball will not bounced back at me. Thats why I said 45 degrees angle in front of me. Cheers.
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