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pushslice
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PostSubject: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:20 am

We know that a good short game is paramount to turn from just a beginner to a seasoned beginner. Good short game means breaking 100 and start playing in the low 90s or even high 80s.

Short game is pitching, chipping and bunker shot. I consider Putting as another category.

But I'd like to start discussion on chipping on this thread.

We usually see two common errors/mishits in chipping among beginners.

1. Skull (hit the ball thin with leading edge or hit too hard, ball flies to another side of the apron). If you see golfers "playing ping pong" around the green. He's got the Skull.

and

2. Duff or FAT (hit the ground first and ball jumped a meter). If you see golfers "walking the dog" or moving the ball 1m at a time, he's got the Duff.

Can anyone share your story of how you overcome the duffed or the skulled chip? What was your eureka moment? Was it in your posture? grip? the ball position? body sway? the chipping stroke/plane? wrist cock? where your eye is looking? bounce on wedge? or just hours of practice time Very Happy

PS: This is not ASK THE PRO thread so please contribute freely. Thanks fellas!
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:23 am

errr...tats a very tough question.

so here is what I do :

the key to me is the takeaway....I keep my iron head very low..and hands not more than waist line....(bear in mind that I am very short in physique)...and I accelerate going thru...with very open stance..so as to not blocked by my fat hip.

for longer distance, I just change club.


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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:29 am

Think positive... focus on the line and the target where you want the ball to land... I try not to think too much of my swing, weight shift, cock wrist etc etc etc... too much swing thoughts kills your focus... which should really be... just on your target

Do a couple of practice swing to feel and gauge the distance and ball flight... if any negative thoughts creep in... redo the whole pre-shot routine again...















IF... still skull or duff.... curse loudly and try again... tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:34 am

Can't really share much how to overcome these problems because I'm still doing that ...haha !!

But i can share the reason why it happen, at least for my case :

When I skull, i know i really din focus on the ball and I tend to look up even before i hit it, thus the tendency of lifting the club and skull it.

When I duff it, i was to anxious to hit the ball, miss my tempo and went too deep in, or even drop my shoulder...

just to add on to your thread :

given the case that there is no duffing and skulling, and you can strike the ball sweet, how to you control your distance ? afterall chipping is not about how far u drive the ball, but is how 'zun' you are to get the ball close to the hole

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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:37 am

good feeback guys...and a good question from snowman

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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:48 am

On the distance portion, here is where we need some level of sanity....

Of coz practise will help but if you are like me where I think practise will 'waste my good shots' then for distance, I will always try to land 1-2 m before pin if there is enough green between my ball position and pin. try to have a good feel of the 'carry' distance of your wedge .

If there is not enough green between ball and pin, then I will just accept that I will over...but I make sure its on green.

I call this approach....' Cest la Vie' for a SB.
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:19 am

Sometimes... its not about how near you get to the hole... but how to manage your short game.

Go for a target that is the safest even if it means you not executing that 'perfect chip'. There must be some margin for error and regardless of a bad shot, will still gives a good chance to save par (or strokes)

Landing away from the pin might not necessarily means one is playing too safe... I prefer to look at it as good course management (taught to me by our beloved Cap Slinger)

Direction and distance is important... but more importantly, be realistic about your capabilities and plan ahead on where is a good spot to land.. if dun go according to plan... worst case scenario is still salvageable.

Not easy to convince yourself not to CHEONG for the pin... but if you are willing to give course management a try... you might find yourself returning with better scores!
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:25 am

For me, it's keeping the left hand straight and not break it upon impact and follow thru.
And oh, on backswing, I try to watch the flight path; that it's the one I want.
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:33 am

after reading both reply from Mr SB ( aka Sibei Buaya) and Mr Longness , I have 1 questions.

Before we chip, we wanted to chose a target on where you wan the ball to land, be it 1-2m before the pin or somewhere on the green base on course management, how do you know you can land the ball on the spot where you wanted it to land ?

I mean sometime i can chip and get the ball on the green, but i have no idea which part of the green the ball will land. It might landed 5-6 m away from pin, it might landed on spot that roll away from the pin....sigh !!
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:36 am

Bro PS...when we approach our next shot which is 10-20m away from green, naturally we just reach into our bag and pull out a 56 or 60.

As much as we want to just perform a simple solid chip, 101 thoughts flow through our minds. How much upswing, wrist cock or firm, soft hands etc. In the end, the master thinker failed himself.

My eureka moment was when i was playing with a fellow GR'ian, he asked me when i was approaching my 15m shot to green.

"What kind of shot are you going to play??"

Me: " HUH??!!!"

Naturally that lead me on the quest to find out more about short game shots.

EG. Mloy's bump-n-run is lethal!!!

But one thing which always slip our routine is the follow through, need more practice on the follow through for any shots.

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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:43 am

Mloy's bump and run is ugly to look at (sorry sista) but damn lethal to my wallet Laughing

you and alvin are right...I think too much about the stroke.
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:45 am

i hope my coming short game lesson with Brett could show me the light to better game..keke
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:51 am

Bro Snowman... I think I understand where you are coming from...

Distance gauging will really depends on how comfortable you are with your wedges/ irons. There are those who can pitch and chip with their lop-wedge all the way to 3-iron... but I like to keep things simple as all my approach from 50-100m (AW) and below 50m (SW).

Practice those wedges with 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full swings to know how far each swing brings the ball to. Keep that in mind when you are selecting your spot to land. We are not pro so there is no way to always land pin high... (though I know bros who gives me distances estimation by the 0.001m accuracy), so ask yourself if it is safer to land short or long... pick the right swing for the safer route.

Understanding the characteristics of your wedge shots: Does it land on the green and check... does it land and keeps rolling or does it lands and side spin etc. Knowing how your wedge shots react on the green will help you pick a better spot to land.

Undulation of the greens will also come into play... so play smart and try to land away from those hazardous spots.

Different pin positions will also affect how and where you want to land your ball...

SO bottom line is... you must first understand your own wedge shots... though not always 100% perfect hit... but proper planning will surely help shave off unnecessary strokes... and... once you step up on that ball... stay committed and focus on the line... forget about all the swing thoughts that will make you loose focus... Remember.. ."Think less... is more"

What a Face
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:54 am

Another way is to grip down on the same wedge club accordingly to get the distance desired.
Imparted by Duffy.
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:55 am

pushslice wrote:
Mloy's bump and run is ugly to look at (sorry sista) but damn lethal to my wallet Laughing

you and alvin are right...I think too much about the stroke.

I know my bump and run is ugly but who cares. As long as it works for me I'm happy. I think the end result is what works for you.

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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:03 am

I know sis, and my duffed chip is even uglier...,
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:05 am

If you are duffing the ball, i once read a tip that i found very useful.....keep the heel of the club off the ground at address, then swing normally....fail proof....
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:08 am

alvin7379 wrote:
Bro Snowman... I think I understand where you are coming from...

Distance gauging will really depends on how comfortable you are with your wedges/ irons. There are those who can pitch and chip with their lop-wedge all the way to 3-iron... but I like to keep things simple as all my approach from 50-100m (AW) and below 50m (SW).

Practice those wedges with 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full swings to know how far each swing brings the ball to. Keep that in mind when you are selecting your spot to land. We are not pro so there is no way to always land pin high... (though I know bros who gives me distances estimation by the 0.001m accuracy), so ask yourself if it is safer to land short or long... pick the right swing for the safer route.

Understanding the characteristics of your wedge shots: Does it land on the green and check... does it land and keeps rolling or does it lands and side spin etc. Knowing how your wedge shots react on the green will help you pick a better spot to land.

Undulation of the greens will also come into play... so play smart and try to land away from those hazardous spots.

Different pin positions will also affect how and where you want to land your ball...

SO bottom line is... you must first understand your own wedge shots... though not always 100% perfect hit... but proper planning will surely help shave off unnecessary strokes... and... once you step up on that ball... stay committed and focus on the line... forget about all the swing thoughts that will make you loose focus... Remember.. ."Think less... is more"

What a Face

YES !!...you understand my question well...keke...

great reply.....haha
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:09 am

ok lah...the surest way is improve GIR....100% GIR then total elimination of mishit of chipping....hahahahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:14 pm



What I have learnt is and thhrough personal trial & error -

I keep the grip from finger through the palm instead of the grip going through the fingers only. This allows me to "straighten" the wrist even more. "as in pic 2: this prevents me from releasing the club head to a certain extent, keeping the club face pointing towards the target line through impact. This has really help me alot.

The second thing I do is instead of using 1/4,1/2 swing for the same club, I alwyas use 1/4 swing and just change clubs for various distances. This gives me more consistency.

3rd thing is I try to keep my hands a comfortable distance away from my body. This allows me to have an easier and smoother swing..

Disclaimer: THis works for me, It may not work for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:11 pm

[quote="alvin7379"]Think positive... focus on the line and the target where you want the ball to land... I try not to think too much of my swing, weight shift, cock wrist etc etc etc... too much swing thoughts kills your focus... which should really be... just on your target

Do a couple of practice swing to feel and gauge the distance and ball flight... if any negative thoughts creep in... redo the whole pre-shot routine again...

Bro Alvin, you sound just like Montgomery in Golf Channel. After all his advices about negative thoughts, he hit a 'not so nice' chip and the ball over ran the pin and he go on harping about try not to have negative thoughts and try to hit it quickly haha :rofl
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:01 pm

Bro, here are my thoughts and some of the ways I've practiced to help my chipping improve.

One of the main culprits of a skulled or duffed chip is the breaking of the left wrist through impact. It doesn't matter what you else you do. Check this the next time you chip by freezing and holding your finish position, then look at the back of your left hand. Has the back of your left hand and forearm formed a concave V? If it has, then your wrists have broken down through impact and you have ended up with an inconsistent flip through the ball with just the hands. Inconsistent because that very flip has caused the radius at setup to change at impact. About the only time you break the wrists is through a flop shot ala Mickelson, in itself a dangerous shot since it requires experienced feel and skill along with precise contact directly behind the ball.

Why does the wrist break?

1. Setup - Many setup with the shaft in line with the clubhead or even behind, some do this in an attempt to add loft to the clubface, thinking that this will help get the ball up. A check again of the back of your left wrist and forearm will show that concave V I mentioned above. It's already preset to flip through impact.

Solution - Point the grip end of the club to the inside of the left thigh at setup. This pre-sets your hands in front of the clubhead, the same position you want to have at impact. If you pre-set it, it gives you a better chance of achieving that same position through impact.

Tip - You want the back of the forearm, back of the left hand, and the club shaft to form a straight a line as possible, and then maintain that straight line of left forearm, back of hand, and club shaft through the swing and impact. To feel this, put a pen or short ruler lengthwise snugly against the back of the left hand and forearm, hold it in place with your watch. Have part of the pen or ruler against the back of the hand and the other part against the forearm. If you do it right, you should be able to chip comfortably with crisper contact. Break the wrists through impact, and you'll break the pen/ruler, not to mention duff or skull the chip.

2. The right hand hit - It's only natural that we do this since most of us are right-handers. The folly is in just hitting at the ball with just the right hand and forgetting about the left hand and arm maintaining the swing radius through impact. This again causes the left arm to break down at the elbow and the wrist. The elbow chicken wings and the wrist forms the concave V.

Solution - The left forearm and back of left hand needs to be kept stable through chipping even as the right hand provides the momentum and feel through impact for the required distance. Changing the focus to more of the left arm and hand as well as pointing the grip to the inside left thigh helps. For the moment, let the right hand just go along for the ride.

Tip - Take the right hand of the club and just practice swing a chip with the left hand on the club. Focus on a slow rhythmic swing and watch your left arm and left hand through impact to followthrough for visual reference, you'll see whether your left wrist breaks through impact or not. Done right, the grip end of the club should point to the outside of your left hip, and you'll feel a connected one piece movement. If it's difficult to do initially, add in the pen/ruler/watch from above to help keep the wrists from breaking down. Once you add the right hand back on, it should feel again like it's just going along for the ride instead of dominating.

3. Weight on the right side - Having the weight on the right side leads to a scoop, hence the flip again. This position encourages a hitting up action which again makes it so easy to flip the hands through impact.

Solution - Put most of your weight on the left side and keep that straight line through the left forearm, back of hand, and clubshaft. Having most of your weight on the left encourages a descending blow into the ball for crisp contact. A chip is still hitting the small ball first before the big ball, one of the components of backspin.

Tip - Practice chipping with all of the weight on the left side. Take the chipping stance, and stand with your right foot on tip-toe. The toes of your right foot should be pulled back till it's in line with your left heel. This forces you to put all your weight on the left side. Practice chipping like this in tandem with pen/ruler in place to prevent the wrists from breaking down.

Additionally, while taking the practice swing, make sure to brush the grass each time at the same exact spot, you are then practicing the exact same motion as when you chip. Swinging above the ground through the air reinforces just that, swinging through the air at impact, that leads to the skulls since the leading edge is not entering the ground but is above it. Keep the swing smooth and rhythmic through the ball rather than have a hit impulse at the ball. Think also of the grip chasing after the ball rather than the clubhead doing the chasing. Having the grip chase the ball encourages keeping the hands ahead of the clubhead through impact. The clubhead chasing the ball can lead to flipping the hands and wrists breaking down.

Hope this summary of all that's in my head at the moment helps. Sorry if it all sounds clinical and cold.



Last edited by Birdman on Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:09 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:20 pm

The hanger drill is awesome:

The Golf Fix - Stop the flip
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=NeJY05E5rCY
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:47 pm

Yo BM, these are very sound advice handed out; just like the one you told me at OCC.
Chipping is more consistent since then.

Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Chipping Mishits   Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:41 pm

sibeh chim.....
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