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ironstarz
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PostSubject: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:02 pm

I've seen people during their address, their driver clubface is slightly open , is there any particular reason why would they be doing it ? Is it supposed to be this way or shd we follow the principle of clubface square to the ball ?

Thks
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jurongtiger
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:05 pm

Trevor Immelman is doing that right now!
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chemicalpro
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:11 pm

address != impact. you can address with a completely open or shut club face and hit it square at impact.

conversely, you can address it square and at impact it's open or shut, which happens most of the time Sad
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golf_snowman
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:47 pm

i thot i address it square, and hit it square, but my ball flight tell me otherwise...... Crying or Very sad
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boboking
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:07 pm

From my experience, the swing plane may have something to do with the ball flight upon impact even if you are squared at setup. I know I hit my ball square (check the club face after every hit) but still my ball fades a little before coming back straight. If I use a higher spin ball, the fade is even stronger and may end up a going too far right. I learned to live with it by compensating a bit to the left and using a lower spin and softer ball.
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:37 pm

ironstarz wrote:

Is it supposed to be this way or shd we follow the principle of clubface square to the ball ?

Thks

chemicalpro wrote:
address != impact. you can address with a completely open or shut club face and hit it square at impact.

conversely, you can address it square and at impact it's open or shut, which happens most of the time Sad

I share a similar view as chemicalpro.

At address, the clubface does nothing to the ball since it has not even touched the ball yet. Smile

What matters more is the clubface at separation. Separation is when the ball rebounds after being compressed and departs from the clubface.

If you study very slow-motion videos of pros, you will notice that the address, impact and separation face angles are almost always different.
But it is always the separation face angle that determines the ball direction, spin and trajectory.

There are many factors affecting clubface from address to impact to separation. Some of them include:
1. Location of CG on the clubface
2. CG of clubhead
3. Shaft torque
4. Shaft flex
5. Swing plane (includes swing path)
6. Grip (ie weak, neutral or strong)
7. Left or Right hand dominant swing
8. Left wrist

Another reason why pros like to address the ball with an open clubface is their tendency to hook the ball when they "go after it". A hook is often disastrous and more difficult to remedy than a fade or slice.

Just take a look at Tiger Wood's recently hooked tee shots... Razz
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golf_snowman
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:59 pm

boboking wrote:
From my experience, the swing plane may have something to do with the ball flight upon impact even if you are squared at setup. I know I hit my ball square (check the club face after every hit) but still my ball fades a little before coming back straight. If I use a higher spin ball, the fade is even stronger and may end up a going too far right. I learned to live with it by compensating a bit to the left and using a lower spin and softer ball.

Actually, i am hitting the ball with open face with out to in swing path.
How I know ? Trackman told me that...keke
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drizz0
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:58 pm

[quote="r510tp"]
ironstarz wrote:



Another reason why pros like to address the ball with an open clubface is their tendency to hook the ball when they "go after it". A hook is often disastrous and more difficult to remedy than a fade or slice.

Just take a look at Tiger Wood's recently hooked tee shots... Razz


or rather than creating an anti slice mechanism, i personally think its more a matter of shot shaping... because these ppl are pros and most times they would hit a good tee shots... i read somewhere that martin kaymer likes hitting fades with his tee shots rather than draw... which i thought it would be the opposite(draw gain distance via carry, fade u lose) and freddie couples hits a load fade tee shot... i guess its a matter of control(more not always better)...

did u see bubba watson's amazing driver shot off the fairway earlier this year? he deliberately opened the face of the driver ON the fairway(2nd shot) so that he created a major slice that ended up on the green...

u might not agree with me but thats what i think:
a falsesafe mechanism does come into play but ii think ts so they can shape their shots...
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sly21498
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:59 pm

Look at the shoulders, when they take their stance. It will tell a tale.... Smile
If u wanna fade....shoulders aim left of target. Doing the opp, will do us a lil bit of help,
esp if we have an out to in swing path. Just compensating our swing.
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:48 am

Well, it depends on how one wanna shape the ball - High fade, high draw, low fade, low draw, etc. If one tends to hook the ball in his natural swing, he may wanna open his clubhead face a few degrees and also hold the releasing of the club slightly longer.

My TM TP Burner S/F driver is designed with the clubhead face opened by 2 deg. It suits my swing and it looks more palatable to my eyes when I am addressing it against the ball ...


Last edited by Turbo on Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:01 pm

Sibeh Cheem.....
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bogeyman72
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:08 pm

DITTO bro... I cannot picture..... Must watch demonstration Embarassed
duffader wrote:
Sibeh Cheem.....
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:28 pm

Better players tend to fight the lefts (hooking) so they tend to prefer open-faced clubs.

Game improvement clubs tend to sit square to help square the clubface at impact.

Anti-slice drivers will sit closed with a slight offset.

For example, this one.




Technical Specifications
Club 1 1
Loft 10.5° 12°
Lie 58° 58°
Weight 198g 198g
Face Angle -1° -1°
Offset 5mm 5mm
Face Height 55mm 55mm
Volume 460cc 460cc
Men's Std. Length 45" 45"
Ladies Std. Length 44" 44"
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:31 pm

Unless i get to see it face to face, if not, i never trust what i see on video when it comes to such things. Smile
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Winston
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:58 pm

Live demos are always the best.
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:11 pm

ironstarz wrote:
I've seen people during their address, their driver clubface is slightly open , is there any particular reason why would they be doing it ? Is it supposed to be this way or shd we follow the principle of clubface square to the ball ?

Thks


Gotta agree with the guys who mentioned that address position is immaterial, it is the clubface position at impact that counts (along with swing path).

Also, I am pretty sure that for good ball striking, the impact position should not look anything like your address position.

As for guys who set up slightly open, my guess is that they have learnt how to release the clubhead properly, so they are trying not to hook the ball.

As for whether or not you should do it, it really depends on what your current ball flight is like. If in doubt, just setup that way and hit 10 balls with it and see if you like it.

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divotee
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:29 pm

I think setting up with the open club face is just a matter of personal preference. It is what little thing that works that instills confidence.
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:00 am

I dunno how you guys do it, but I am of the opinion that how the clubface sits at address does influence impact position.

If clubface position at address really doesn't matter, why should the pros then open their clubface to resist hooking at impact? Simple as that.

Apart from the visual preference, why then do better player drivers have a one degree open face at address and game improvement drivers have a two degree closed face at address?

Why also does instruction also tell us that to work the ball in a draw, close the face at address? To fade the ball, open it.

How the clubface sits (open, square, or closed) at address has a profound influence on impact position. It can be simply proved by hitting alternately with an exaggerated open and then a closed face at address. It's impossible to return the clubface to square without manipulating your hands. And the results will show as pull or hook/pull and hook with closed face, and push or slice/push and slice with the open face.

Sorry, it is not simply a matter of personal preference.





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alangolf
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:27 am

I think open clubface or not depends on how you want to shape the shot. If you've to open clubface to hit straight shots, it because hand is 'compensating' it due to one's swing path and hand action. (whether you should change your swing.... or live with what you're used to is another discussion).

Maybe slightly off-topic. Assuming you want to just hit straight, shoulders will be slightly open because right hand is lower. This make sense to me and I believe it'll result in more natural swing.
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dmateo
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:48 am

on my case open club case at impact has a lot to do with no turning, too tight control on left hand and no full releaes of right hand.

Left hand control tends to leave the club face open on impact. This can be compensated by address and aim however you'll loose distance.

Nowadays I always concentrate on making sure that left hand is relax with both left and right hand fully release upon impact.

Aside note, rilex the hand, it's not the one reponsible for the swing. the lower body is the one responsible for it. Hand just follow. Right hand just accelerate the path but not the initiator.

Happy golfing.
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and68low
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:03 am

There is this guy Tan Ah Lye(asean senior amateur Champion) who address his club face with a minimum of 30 % closed face... but hit the ball straight !!...

What it means here is that...at impact point and when ball releases from club face dictates .. ie swing path, grip, hip clearance (did i missed any, probably).... all combine to determine where club face will be at impact.

have fun.. every golfers are different !
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ngjw89
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:15 am

Birdman wrote:
I dunno how you guys do it, but I am of the opinion that how the clubface sits at address does influence impact position.

If clubface position at address really doesn't matter, why should the pros then open their clubface to resist hooking at impact? Simple as that.

Apart from the visual preference, why then do better player drivers have a one degree open face at address and game improvement drivers have a two degree closed face at address?

Why also does instruction also tell us that to work the ball in a draw, close the face at address? To fade the ball, open it.

How the clubface sits (open, square, or closed) at address has a profound influence on impact position. It can be simply proved by hitting alternately with an exaggerated open and then a closed face at address. It's impossible to return the clubface to square without manipulating your hands. And the results will show as pull or hook/pull and hook with closed face, and push or slice/push and slice with the open face.

Sorry, it is not simply a matter of personal preference.


agreed. if the clubface is open or closed only due to the difference in (rotational) position of the club in the golfer's hands, then making the same swing would fade or draw the ball more depending on the extent of the change in face angle. open at address != open at impact, but i believe without changing anything else in the swing, more open/closed at address = more open/closed at impact

so i guess it is a personal preference with respect to the kind of shot you want to hit and how much you want to alter the ball flight that your natural swing gives you
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:17 am

Ha ha... I knew this would come up. Very Happy

There are always exceptions to the norm I agree, especially those who have played for years and grooved some quirks into their swing. What these golfers can do out of the ordinary, I would guess that the rest of us cannot replicate as consistently as they can, if at all.

For simplicity's sake, taking out all other factors that would also influence impact position, wouldn't the best clubface position at address be as square as possible?
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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:29 am

Birdman wrote:
For simplicity's sake, taking out all other factors that would also influence impact position, wouldn't the best clubface position at address be as square as possible?

I would have thought so. At least that's what my coach used to tell me.

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PostSubject: Re: Driver open clubface?    Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:31 am

Technospaz wrote:
Birdman wrote:
For simplicity's sake, taking out all other factors that would also influence impact position, wouldn't the best clubface position at address be as square as possible?

I would have thought so. At least that's what my coach used to tell me.

Did he teach you the wide stance and deep breathing? Very Happy
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