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 Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?

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UberGold
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PostSubject: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:47 pm

I bought my set many years ago.... on a whim. Just walked into one of those 'bazaar' warehouse sales at harbourfront and wanted to pick up a 7 iron so that I can go practice at the range (always wanted to play golf... ).
The salesman told me, why not buy a set when it only costs a little more than buying ONE club?

So I left the warehouse $ poorer, with a set of golf clubs, Maxfli. (No putter, somehow).

And now, after being on the range on and off over the last year and a few times on par 3 courses, thinking... should I change clubs. Sometimes I use clubs of my friends for a few shots and it does seem that it produces much better shots than my maxflis! Did an online search and seems that the set I got has got some really good reviews.... things like 'forgiving', etc. But I feel like I should get better clubs. Or clubs that suit ME.

So I am thinking..... a customized set? Or a good brand off the shelf?

Either Ping. Or TaylorMade, Titleist or Cobra?

Please share your pointers and experiences. Thanks!!
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jimmychoo
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:05 pm

I think we talked about this a few weeks ago..... Sleep

Can you do a search?
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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:18 pm

all right, I am new here. Thank you for your response.
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:20 pm

as bro JC said, there are already many threads on this subject.

Do take your time and read them all Very Happy
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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:29 pm

Thanks pushslice! I ran a search for customise and got only 2 threads. One was mine and the other completely unrelated. Ran a search for customize and got 1 thread. Mostly replies saying to go to the big fish bro.

Nothing said by people who actually customised with Ping? No info.

Appreciate your heads up.
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:40 pm

Search by Google search option. they are more versatile, gives you more result. If you are not in a hurry, just take your time and read the threads without using the search.

Your question is very general/broad...so the subject may not be "fitting", "club fitting". But I assure you we have discussed this many many times.

for Ping specific discussions go to the Ping thread or search "Ping" hor

and many answers lead to Big Fish (and Wizgolf) because they are two clubfitters in SG with trackman that can help you.

Big Fish can custom fit you Ping clubs.

i play ping. i think they are great. i got custom fit by WinGolf fitter during a free demo day at Bob's Golf serangoon road. But I bought my set from USA.

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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:44 pm

bro, my advise is use ur current set until you cannot tahan or break 100. Then you probably ready for a second set.

Then you decide if you wanna buy new or 2nd hand.

If new, go to a fitter lah (ping or BFG) to get the right shaft and lie.

If 2nd hand, buy forged and buy steel shaft (bearing in mind you already break 100). Then when you get really steady, go for fitting to bend the forged set and change your shafts.

In short fitting is when your swing is stable. and scores are the best way to tell if your swing is stable. (for me at least)

Don't be like me. waste lots of money change here change there. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE. The cross fire shafts for the hybrids rock for me and I cannot thank BFG enuff for fitting me. Now my go to club for the 2nd shot likely to be one of my hybrid clubs thanks to the confidence the shaft has given me.
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:48 pm

Cobra S3. Sweet, soft feel. Reasonable pricing for forged irons.
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:06 pm

asahi wrote:
Cobra S3. Sweet, soft feel. Reasonable pricing for forged irons.

how much is the price for Cobra S3 set? new
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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:09 pm

Thanks so much for all your advice! Appreciate it.

Gray, cannot tahan or break 100! That made me laugh! Very good advice though I must get used to the lingo here on GR fast. Very Happy

I certainly did not break 100 but maybe now cannot tahan.

I get the feeling that some of us folks here feel customization is good and the way to go. But salesmen in the shops made me feel like a retard and say that if custom so good, etc, etc... why companies spend all the money to make generic clubs, don't be conned by 'custom' etc. In fact... I feel these are the conmen and saying all these just so we buy from them because they do not have the option to customise for me. I prefer advice from objective people with no agenda.
Hence, I asked the question. Because until now, I still don't know if I should pick a set off the racks or go customise.


For those who customised, did their play REALLY improve?
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:33 pm

UberGold wrote:
Thanks pushslice! I ran a search for customise and got only 2 threads. One was mine and the other completely unrelated. Ran a search for customize and got 1 thread. Mostly replies saying to go to the big fish bro.

Nothing said by people who actually customised with Ping? No info.

Appreciate your heads up.

Ubergold,

This is a good question. Buy off the shelf or get a customised set... In a way, it is similar to getting a suit.

You can get a ready-made suit off the rack, or get a hand-made suit that fits you to a tee.

And just like a suit, you'd be asking yourself these questions:
1. what do I expect to get out of the investment?
2. is getting the very best fit important to me?
3. am I going to be using it sufficiently to make it worth the extra $$$?

If I'm playing golf casually for recreational purposes and I don't really mind losing a few strokes here and there, I would not pay more for the custom set. With the money I save, I can pay for some lessons which will also enhance my enjoyment equally if not more.

If I intend to be seriously fanatical about golf because it is just too compelling and addictive, I would go for a custom set.

Benefits of custom set:
1. it FITS YOU
2. you feel better swinging with it
3. therefore, your swing improves faster and you perform better
4. which means you will derive a higher level of enjoyment from the game, hitting that PURE shot more frequently as a result of 1, 2 and 3.

Disadvantage:
1. is costs more, perhaps more than you think; read on

Benefits of standard set
1. a lot cheaper
2. less headache, less complicated, pay and play
3. can keep changing whenever you feel like it without damaging the wallet too much

Disadvantage:
1. if it does not fit you, it may/will likely affect your swing
2. you do not get the best out of it that you otherwise can

So, if you intend to be a SERIOUS and OBSESSED golfer who demands nothing but the MAXIMUM out of his equipment, then the answer is obvious.

If you took up the game for a casual purpose, then no need to be so hardcore about it; put the money you saved to better use.

One final note - custom-fit is a slippery slope. First you custom-fit your irons. Next, driver must also custom fit. No point irons firing to the max if your approach shot is from under the trees. So you choose a head that fits you just so. Shaft flex, torque, kickpoint and stiffness must fit your swing to the n'th degree. Next, repeat the process for wood, hybrid, and even your wedges.

By now, you've spent serious money on it. You enjoy the full set immensely. Your swing improves.

A few months down the road, your swing has improved so much the set no longer fits you. You are swinging much faster with less effort, and the shafts are now too soft.

So, back to the drawing board.... another round of changing shafts....

I am speaking from experience, if it isn't obvious yet.

If the above sounds appealing, go for it. If it sounds horrifying, reconsider.

By the way, if you already have a steady, stable swing, getting a custom set because you're serious, makes sense.

If you are still building a swing, you may want to wait until your swing is set, to avoid chasing a moving target.

A related, interesting question is:
"Should I go for a forgiving club or non-forgiving club?"

The answer may surprise.

Good luck, cheers.

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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:51 pm

UberGold wrote:
But salesmen in the shops made me feel like a retard and say that if custom so good, etc, etc... why companies spend all the money to make generic clubs, don't be conned by 'custom' etc. In fact... I feel these are the conmen and saying all these just so we buy from them because they do not have the option to customise for me. I prefer advice from objective people with no agenda.

Sigh, I pity the sales dude. Must be tough meeting target to resort to such ridiculous non-logic. And probably does not play golf either, because a golfer would not be able to utter this statement with a straight face.

Standard set has its place and function. And if it happens to fit as well, no need to look further.

UberGold wrote:

Hence, I asked the question. Because until now, I still don't know if I should pick a set off the racks or go customise.


For those who customised, did their play REALLY improve?

ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT OR AN IOTA OF RESERVATION.

Why? Because golf is a game of fractions. Hit the ball by a difference of 1 dimple, and you could be looking at either a birdie putt, or a chip from the fringe, or even a bunker shot.

That's why the game is so addictive, and why every tournament is usually won by a different player.

My irons were custom-fit from day 1. I bought the MP52, and took out the shafts without ever hitting them, and put in a set of custom-fit shafts. The shafts were longer than standard to fit my height. Lie angles were adjusted as well.

Every now and then, I take the irons back to have the lie angle checked and adjusted. Other than that, the irons remain unchanged. I'm I asked my fitter in Malaysia to recommend a setup I could grow into, as my swing was changing rapidly, as opposed to one which fit my initial rudimentary swing.

I have changed the shaft in my driver twice, as my swing progressed, searching for ultimate distance I can achieve. The difference in distance compared to when I started last year is about 50-60m.

Of course, the equipment is one half of the equation; the other half is swing and technique. So, glad to hear you are taking lessons.
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:22 pm

Gray wrote:
asahi wrote:
Cobra S3. Sweet, soft feel. Reasonable pricing for forged irons.

how much is the price for Cobra S3 set? new

$1495 for S3 Pro (8 pieces). Maybe can bargain some more.

Very Happy
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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:09 am

Lee, thank you so much. Really gave a lot of keen insights. Much appreciated.

>>>>Sigh, I pity the sales dude. Must be tough meeting target to resort to such ridiculous non-logic. And probably does not play golf either, because a golfer would not be able to utter this statement with a straight face.

Said by some guy in Far East Shopping Centre, second level shop at a corner that sells Titleist, if not wrong. Looks like a player but sensed he was just fast talking me... so I never went back to Far East again and never bothered to remember the name of the shop.


I would like to ask you, for the sake of discussion, if you said you had custom irons from day 1, how would you know that your play 'improved' without a doubt?

It's not like you have been playing..... and then stuck... but customised your clubs and BOOM! Improved your game.

Please clarify if I am wrong.


I think I could be heading towards customizing my set after this discussion... just want to find out more. Cheers!
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G_Man
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:28 am

UberGold wrote:
I would like to ask you, for the sake of discussion, if you said you had custom irons from day 1, how would you know that your play 'improved' without a doubt?

It's not like you have been playing..... and then stuck... but customised your clubs and BOOM! Improved your game.

To answer your first question: your score... But thisis regardless of custom or off the shelf clubs.

With changes, ie going from off teh shelf to custom, there will be a timeframe for you to adapt. It isnt as if a new set of clubs can reduce your score... A new belt might. new clubs, unlikely...

So again, comes down to your score....
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:56 am

UberGold wrote:
Lee, thank you so much. Really gave a lot of keen insights. Much appreciated.

>>>>Sigh, I pity the sales dude. Must be tough meeting target to resort to such ridiculous non-logic. And probably does not play golf either, because a golfer would not be able to utter this statement with a straight face.

Said by some guy in Far East Shopping Centre, second level shop at a corner that sells Titleist, if not wrong. Looks like a player but sensed he was just fast talking me... so I never went back to Far East again and never bothered to remember the name of the shop.


I would like to ask you, for the sake of discussion, if you said you had custom irons from day 1, how would you know that your play 'improved' without a doubt?

It's not like you have been playing..... and then stuck... but customised your clubs and BOOM! Improved your game.

Please clarify if I am wrong.


I think I could be heading towards customizing my set after this discussion... just want to find out more. Cheers!

You're very welcome.

Ah, Far East Shopping Center, I remember it well from my student days. I understand how that could happen, knowing the place.

Well, I played off the shelf drivers and woods and hybrids for a while. Then I had them custom-fit. A lot of improvement there. I still have my standard off the shelf drivers from day 1. Every now and then I would hit them for fun. Immediate loss of distance. The shaft flex and kickpoint no longer fit me.

As for irons, I also took measurements on the Trackman before and after custom-fitting the irons.

Like night and day.

To start with, the off-the-shelf iron shafts were already too short for me, never mind my 6' 3" friend like the DenMeister. So I start with a hunch at address from the get go.

The lie angle was obviously wrong. If I bend over more, the lie angle would be correct, but I would be unable to turn freely.

So, I hit a few shots on the Trackman, and could hardly get a straight shot without some unusual compensations.

If I proceeded down this road, I would end up with a funky swing. A few years later, it would be a pain to correct.

Again, reference my friend the DenMeister's experience. Luckily, he found out recently from DGMan why his off-the-shelf set was so wrong for him and has since replaced the irons and is now 'released' from his hunch-backed 'prison.'

Likewise, for someone who is too short for the standard set, the experience would be the same, except reversed. This is compounded by the trend of drivers being made too long. So I see some people on the range standing almost upright with the driver because they are holding the extra long shafts right until the very end of the grip.

Next, for irons, your swing shape would determine how you impact the ball, and from there, you can determine the correct lie angle for your swing. We all have different swing shapes.

Recently, I started pulling my iron shots. I went back to my fitter again. Using trackman, and some impact tape with the impact board, we found out that my swing has changed, and therefore the lie no longer correct and causing me to pull my shots. So, I had the heads bent to fit again, until the Trackman showed my shots going straight once more. Without this, I would again insert unwanted compensations into the swing - very harmful in the long run.

Again, as you improve, your swing will also change, so it is not set in stone from day 1.

But at least make sure you get a set of irons with forged heads so that they can be bent into the fight lie later. Cast iron heads are difficult to bend, and you risk breaking it.

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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:08 am

so true about custom fitting. however, my recommendation is still (if you are a beginning golfer) to learn from a coach, get your swing right and then customised your set, if need be. Many times, I think beginners don't hit the ball well mainly because there are problems with their swing, and not the equipment. having said that, if your build is out of the "norm", like you're taller or shorter than average, then it's a different story.
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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:56 pm

Wow Lee, excellent response! I am definitely sold. LOL.

Thanks a lot for sharing with a newbie like me.

Seems like a customised set will incur a lot more money than the standard sets.

Casey, yes you are right about beginners.... I think I am progessing to a stage where I can ALMOST hit consistently.... just need better equipment or equipment more suited for me to play well and consistently. Tried some other clubs and the balls almost always go better than the ones I am using now... that's why I am thinking... hmmm!

Need to go for a few demos to get a feel of the different brands and then finally make an appointment to go and see the highly recommended BFG, I guess.


Thanks all! This discussion has been fruitful. Special thanks to Lee!
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:43 pm

My pleasure, UberGold.

Have fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 7:38 pm

UberGold wrote:
Seems like a customised set will incur a lot more money than the standard sets.
This perception is incorrect. It depends on the components you select to customise your set. For example, forged heads are generally more expensive than cast.

I suspect the reason you think customised set are more ex is because most ppl who customised had reached a certain level of proficiency and hence chose to use better components, e.g. better shafts, forge heads, tour spec stuff etc.
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:51 pm

samT wrote:
UberGold wrote:
Seems like a customised set will incur a lot more money than the standard sets.
This perception is incorrect. It depends on the components you select to customise your set. For example, forged heads are generally more expensive than cast.

I suspect the reason you think customised set are more ex is because most ppl who customised had reached a certain level of proficiency and hence chose to use better components, e.g. better shafts, forge heads, tour spec stuff etc.

Yes, I agree.

It still hurts to recall how much this cost me.



Series 1957 Limited Special Edition baby blade.

Like I said, it's a slippery slope my friend.
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piero
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:15 am

I was at this stage just 4 months ago. I had picked up the game more than 1.5 years ago. Playing off a 2nd hand set of irons bought from a bro here and added a Cobra driver myself. Had some good games with this set but was unable to improve beyond a certain point.

Did a fitting on my driver and realised that I should be using stiff shaft, since then have changed my woods, rescue and irons through fitting to the right shaft, lie, grip. Its not a cheap process costing me a total of more than $2K in the process.

Nevertheless, I feel that this is a process that is well worth it. Now playing with much more enjoyment and confidence. Further, I need to continue to play as long as I stay in my industry so I guess the the cost amortized over many years is well worth it.

I guess customise or not, depends on your budget and intent as well as how serious you want to engage this sport. I tend to disagree that customising is a slippery slope as off the shelf purchases could result in the same ending as one could go out and buy a new off-the shelf set any time as well. It really depends on how itchy your back side is and how deep is your pocket before you feel the pinch.
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:45 am

customizing and fitting is different, customizing means you are selecting each individual components to be put together for a complete set, fitting is finding out what specifications like grip size, shaft, loft, lie, length suits you. Through fitting you can still order an off the shelf set but with the specifications you want, and have the lie, loft and even length adjusted for you.

To adjust loft and lie, its easier to get a set of forge irons as those are easier to bend as compared to cast irons.


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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:43 am

piero wrote:
I was at this stage just 4 months ago. I had picked up the game more than 1.5 years ago. Playing off a 2nd hand set of irons bought from a bro here and added a Cobra driver myself. Had some good games with this set but was unable to improve beyond a certain point.

Did a fitting on my driver and realised that I should be using stiff shaft, since then have changed my woods, rescue and irons through fitting to the right shaft, lie, grip. Its not a cheap process costing me a total of more than $2K in the process.

Nevertheless, I feel that this is a process that is well worth it. Now playing with much more enjoyment and confidence. Further, I need to continue to play as long as I stay in my industry so I guess the the cost amortized over many years is well worth it.

I guess customise or not, depends on your budget and intent as well as how serious you want to engage this sport. I tend to disagree that customising is a slippery slope as off the shelf purchases could result in the same ending as one could go out and buy a new off-the shelf set any time as well. It really depends on how itchy your back side is and how deep is your pocket before you feel the pinch.

Well, you've just described what an american golf forum cheerfully called being club 'ho, people who love to collect golf sets. That can get expensive as well. Once you get the bug to collect sets, well, there can be no end in sight, and can get equally if not more expensive.

However, it does not make customising any less of a slippery slope. I keep going back to check up on new shafts, new heads, and there's always something interesting to consider. Not to mention, when my swing speed increases, the existing set up no longer fits, and it is almost compulsory to change shafts, and sometimes heads as well to regain that ideal custom-fit.



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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Better to buy a set off the shelf or customise?   Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:53 am

eiji wrote:
customizing and fitting is different, customizing means you are selecting each individual components to be put together for a complete set, fitting is finding out what specifications like grip size, shaft, loft, lie, length suits you. Through fitting you can still order an off the shelf set but with the specifications you want, and have the lie, loft and even length adjusted for you.

To adjust loft and lie, its easier to get a set of forge irons as those are easier to bend as compared to cast irons.


An interesting fine point.

Personally, I would not order a set only to have it butt-extended to fit. I'd much rather have a shaft selected according to my spec and cut to fit.

Typically, the shaft that I want is not the shaft that the manufacturers use for their off-the-shelf sets. So finding an existing match is rare to start with.

Unfortunately, as a result, I have a store room full of standard shafts I took out from my heads.

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