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 Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?

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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:32 am

>>>You can buy the house first, then complain to CEA rdg that agent.

Huh!!!!

shorthitter... I would advise you to be very, very careful with this move.

Don't mean to be rude to motokah at all since he is offering his advice.
But I would ask you instead to be sure of all fees before doing anything. Money down the drain is money down the drain and no amount of 'complaining' would work, as demonstrated for years.

Change and revamp is clearly needed!

Or buy your house after the loopholes are plugged! LOL!


>>>>You seems unwilling to meet the Landlord to solve your client's problem.

motokah bro, that landlord is in TAIWAN.

Ok?

Let me update you after Friday. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:01 am

motokah wrote:
jimmychoo,
I think you can complain to CEA if that agent is licensed & is still holding onto your money.
See -> www.cea.gov.sg/cea/content/consumer/complaints/makingcomplaint.html
Complaint liao but CEA reply that this agent is not in their list, they can't do anything. Suggest us to go ahead and sue her.

Honestly speaking, I don't trust property agent at all because I simply got too much shit from them. My first encounter was with an ERA agent when I am trying to buy a HDB house, he ask me to give him his commission first before the 1st appointment at HDB saying that it's new year time and he need that money. I refused and later he and the seller never turn out on 1st appointment ! The whole agreement was lapsed so I demand them to return me back my deposit but they refused. I follow another property agent advise to find a lawyer to issue them a letter of demand. End up they sue me to court pale and my lawyer tell me to file in a counter sue. The process was long and tiring, eventually I never take back my deposit and have to pay the lawyer and all kind of fees. No
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:23 am

This thread has helped to raise awareness that common folks who are in the market to buy a home take precautions in dealing with real estate agents.

i did not know that there are so many smelly legs and unscrupulous tactics in the business.

DGman
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:51 am

Yup. I was also thinking of renting out my home and this thread has taught me some lesson.

Since the deposit is for the restoration of damage to the home, I will ask the tenant to pass me the deposit instead of passing to the agent.

Learnt smthing here. Thanks Ubergold.

See, Play golf also can learn abt real estate and korean cars and Vietnam XMM
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:53 am

I believe in any industry there will be crooks and arseholes. If it is within your capabilities to punish and help to prevent others from experiencing similar circumstances, please do so (kind of charity acts), but I believe that majority of these people are good people who are just trying to earn a living honestly. So let's not generalised and pre-judge certain professions but of course it's business after all hence never let your guards down.
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:41 am

pushslice wrote:
JC, why would the police not handle your claim? If there were indication or allegation of fraud. Dont they come under penal code?

Bro Panji, our police people very spoilt for task ah. In my estate, there is this "cat woman" (for your info, she does not live around our estate), who goes around placing cannisters of water and minced pork, dried cat food and more all around the Chip Bee Garden area, near Holland Village. With the NEA campaign on mosquitoe breeding, this cat woman have the licence to breed Aedes Mosquitoes anywhere she wants. Why I said she has the licence? Because after numerous complaints to NEA, MP, nothing was done to stop her despite my offer to go to Court to act as witness that she was the one who placed the water and food cannisters. I have NEA officers coming into my house to check whether I have residue water which could breed mosquitoes and if accidentally found that I do have one, its a $5k fine for me. But yet here is one woman whom the Authorities are not willing to persecute.
OK back to the police guys. Why I brought it up was on one of the day while the cat woman was around placing the food and water cannisters, a patrol car passed by and immediately I stopped it and told them about this cat woman endangering the estate especially now, there were people who were infected with Dengue fever. YOu know what was the sergent response to me?? Go complaint to NEA. This matter is not our responsibility. Its under NEA !!! He drove away after that comment. Thats that ... Twisted Evil NB ! They could at least arrest her or gave her a ticket for littering!!!!!!! The food left behind attracts rodents. Those big, hair dropping brownish kind, flies, parasites which may be disease bearing. Yet they said not their responsiblity. %$&&^*%$ !!!!! Not to mention, at night, these cats make used of my car bonnet as their camping and playground !!!!!!
END OF MY RANT !!!!!

titu
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:55 am

There are actually still a lot of lousy property agent out there whom only care for their commission. CEA can penalise them by voiding their license but do these lousy agents really care? Just compare that mild $200 to the amount of a property sale transaction, is it justify? I personally find that $200 serve no purpose and make people think that CEA is just there to make some money out from the agent. The CEA shall collect a bigger sum of money instead! The money shall be collected as a deposit.

Sorry to those in the property line but this is what a consumer think – I will suggest that CEA collect a deposit which is equivalent or more than the deposit we buyer placed and implement point system like the traffic police. Any agent found committing serious offense like spending away client’s deposit will have their own deposit forfeited and license void. Point system will be there to monitor Agent’s conduct.

So far I seldom hear any traffic user complaining traffic police is not working. If CEA implement this system, I think they will cut down lots of complaint from the agent and at the same time will improve the quality of the property agent. kill 2 birds with 1 stone Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:14 pm

I believe the government started CEA with good intentions.
It's only a few months old, there will be growing pains.
So give it some time to work out the kinks in the real estate market.


However, consumers must take personal responsibility for their actions.
And to exercise caution & common sense whenever possible.
eg. not giving cash, asking for proof of ownership, verify identity of Tenant, ensure the agent is licensed... etc

It is often easier to blame somebody else when events doesn't happen in your favor.
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:40 pm

Tituman wrote:
pushslice wrote:
JC, why would the police not handle your claim? If there were indication or allegation of fraud. Dont they come under penal code?

Bro Panji, our police people very spoilt for task ah. In my estate, there is this "cat woman" (for your info, she does not live around our estate), who goes around placing cannisters of water and minced pork, dried cat food and more all around the Chip Bee Garden area, near Holland Village. With the NEA campaign on mosquitoe breeding, this cat woman have the licence to breed Aedes Mosquitoes anywhere she wants. Why I said she has the licence? Because after numerous complaints to NEA, MP, nothing was done to stop her despite my offer to go to Court to act as witness that she was the one who placed the water and food cannisters. I have NEA officers coming into my house to check whether I have residue water which could breed mosquitoes and if accidentally found that I do have one, its a $5k fine for me. But yet here is one woman whom the Authorities are not willing to persecute.
OK back to the police guys. Why I brought it up was on one of the day while the cat woman was around placing the food and water cannisters, a patrol car passed by and immediately I stopped it and told them about this cat woman endangering the estate especially now, there were people who were infected with Dengue fever. YOu know what was the sergent response to me?? Go complaint to NEA. This matter is not our responsibility. Its under NEA !!! He drove away after that comment. Thats that ... Twisted Evil NB ! They could at least arrest her or gave her a ticket for littering!!!!!!! The food left behind attracts rodents. Those big, hair dropping brownish kind, flies, parasites which may be disease bearing. Yet they said not their responsiblity. %$&&^*%$ !!!!! Not to mention, at night, these cats make used of my car bonnet as their camping and playground !!!!!!
END OF MY RANT !!!!!

titu

sorry to hear your story titu. I'm betting that they prosecuted you because the law is clear that the owner/tenant of the property is liable. they catwoman is using public or not her property to commit the offence and that is where the law is silent on.

hehehehee... What a Face just kidding.. but these police also one kind
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:48 pm

No point in complaining to the authorites, we know nothing will happen... Prime example yesterday Loan shark splash our place with red paint, cos the neighbour owes him money... call police, nothing they can do.... Crying or Very sad

Now we have nice colourful bright entranceway and windows....

The agent that demanded money did not even turn up to the HDB appointment, at least the owner did.

On a positive, my agent was so embarrased he offered to forego his commision..
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 1:55 pm

motokah wrote:
However, consumers must take personal responsibility for their actions.
And to exercise caution & common sense whenever possible.
eg. not giving cash, asking for proof of ownership, verify identity of Tenant, ensure the agent is licensed... etc
It is often easier to blame somebody else when events doesn't happen in your favor.
I wonder if buyer has to know every bit of what to do, why on earth they need an Agent for?
I always thought that a good agent shall always ensure smooth transaction and avoid misunderstanding?
I wonder what kind of personal responsibility shall I look for as a consumer?
1)not giving cash,
The deposit is always going thru the hand of the agents mah, what are you talking about? You mean must give cheque is it? What about cash cheque?

2)asking for proof of ownership,
How to? Can the SP services bill prove? What document shall we ask for?

3)verify identity of Tenant,
This applies to rent out of house, so we verify it on the spot of signing agreement. What if they change people after that? Must I go sub court to chase them out?

4)ensure the agent is licensed...
Call up CEA? Or there is some kind of CEA issued license?

5)etc
Still need to learn more? Sleep

6)It is often easier to blame somebody else when events doesn't happen in your favor
Deposit can't take back liao, agent fee also paid liao, now have to blame myself. What kind of world is this?

See? That's how ignorance I am as a consumer. Think I better don't buy/sell or rent any house until I get the master degree of property management.
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:11 pm

shorthitter,

I'm sorry to hear abt the "collateral damage" you suffered from loan sharks.

Bad agents are in the minority, yet news abt their infamous acts travel far and wide.
While good agents go quietly abt their business.

Did you pay that MIA agent?



jimmychoo,

Some of the answers are in CEA website -> www.cea.gov.sg/cea/content/index.html

1) Yes, don't give cash nor cash cheque. Crossed cheque must be attn to Seller or Landlord.

2) Invoice frm SP services is not good enough. The occupant could be a Tenant.
Example of proof of property ownership: Property Tax statement, MCST maintenance fee/sinking fund invoice, copy of titles deeds, copy of Sales & Purchase Agreement, property loan statement from Bank or HDB, also can check SLA website -> www.inlis.gov.sg

3) Landlord must check documents of all occupants: IC, Passport, student pass, work permit, employment pass, long term visitation visa.... etc. Landlord is liable for criminal prosecution if property is leased out to illegal immigrants.

4) All CEA licensed agents have a personal license no. It's on their namecard & their company ID tag. You can verify it on CEA website.

5) We never stop learning. 活到老,学到老!

6) I believe you have learned an expensive lesson to not blindly trust property agents (or any business associates). Take comfort that several lawyers had disappeared along with millions of dollars of their client's money.

My point is please don't ASSUME (in NS means: make an ass out of you & me) every word from your agent is the truth.... agents are sales people, so they do sales talk to persuade clients.
You must exercise caution & common sense , ask for and check for FACTS.
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:53 pm

motokah,

Thanks for all the answers, hope I can put all this into use What a Face

My england no good so I google the word "Agent" -
Agent may refer to one who acts for, or in the place of, another, by authority from him; one entrusted with the business of another.

"Salesman" -
A person who sells merchandise or services either in a shop or by canvassing in a designated area

So those so call Agents are actually Salesman?

May I know you address yourself as an Agent or a Salesman?
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 6:34 pm

jimmychoo,

You're most welcome!


In official CEA lingo:

Estate Agent: Real estate marketing company
Salesperson: The individual property agent

The market commonly call us as Property Agents or Real Estate Agents.
To me, I'm just a saleman who deals with real estate.
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:46 pm

Wow guys, was at TPY Poh Bros whacking balls and on my return, so many posts!

Must whack balls more often to keep the boards lively! Very Happy


>>>Dgman
This thread has helped to raise awareness that common folks who are in the market to buy a home take precautions in dealing with real estate agents.
>>>>>


Yes, Dgman, change starts with being aware of an existing problem.
Like any industry (lawyers and doctors included), there are the good and the bad, and the majority who are in the middle.

This thread should also let you know that not every agent is out there to do harm. There are those who really want to do the right thing to make sure you are very well taken care of. You just have to identify them and engage them all the time. Keep them in business so they can help you and friends in the way you deserve, with integrity.



>>>Gray
Yup. I was also thinking of renting out my home and this thread has taught me some lesson.
Since the deposit is for the restoration of damage to the home, I will ask the tenant to pass me the deposit instead of passing to the agent.
Learnt smthing here. Thanks Ubergold.

>>>>>

You are most welcome, Gray bro. Just sharing to help bring awareness to this matter, within this 'industry' and the 'authorities' supposedly in charge for the industry as well. Once there is awareness, people stop looking the other way, change can begin. On a larger scale, this is a problem in the Singaporean society as well... too much of 'this is not my job', 'go to XXX instead', 'I'm just following the rules', etc. Such blind 'following the rules' create these blindspots a.k.a. loopholes, which are easily exploited. What we need more of are people of initiative, who pause and say, 'Hey, that's not right! Something must be done. And EVEN if it is 'not my job', I will do it simply because I KNOW it is not right to allow this problem to continue'. Simple as that.

Not easy, but sometimes, occasionally someone will snap and say, THAT'S ENOUGH! Someone has to account and do something, and do something NOW. As happened to me. Had enough. So I am doing what I can.

Also, regarding the deposits, sometimes it is good to trust the agent also, because you pay them to make things work smoothly for you. Just make sure all cheques are in the names of tenants, so that agents cannot use the money nor delay... not in their benefit to delay.

What causes the problem is when some landlords continually use the same agent for many of their properties.... and these agents also manage their properties. Perhaps these owners are overseas.... . So what happens? These owners, instead of writing cheques for individual properties (repairs, servicing, items replacements, bills, maintenance fees, security deposit returns), they transfer one lump sum to these agents that they trust. And expect the agent to fairly dole out every cent.
This is when the agent has an opportunity to exploit the situation. He can arbitrarily claim (with or without landlord's knowledge) that there is so and so repair, replacement, etc..... and CUT the security deposit of the tenant, just like that! Ridiculous.
And if tenant don't agree? Stalemate. Tenant's money is stuck. So they suck it in and 'accept'. Or worse, the thief (won't call him agent) misapropriates the funds and go to the casino. You can imagine the rest.

I want to seek an end to this.
I will definitely share my views strongly in tomorrow's meeting with CEA.



>>>watermyforrest
believe in any industry there will be crooks and arseholes. If it is within your capabilities to punish and help to prevent others from experiencing similar circumstances, please do so (kind of charity acts), but I believe that majority of these people are good people who are just trying to earn a living honestly. So let's not generalised and pre-judge certain professions but of course it's business after all hence never let your guards down.
>>>>>

Very well said. Many good points and fair viewpoints.

>>>shorthitter
No point in complaining to the authorites, we know nothing will happen... Prime example yesterday Loan shark splash our place with red paint, cos the neighbour owes him money... call police, nothing they can do....

Now we have nice colourful bright entranceway and windows....

On a positive, my agent was so embarrased he offered to forego his commision..

>>>>>

Complaining is pointless, as mentioned by someone. True. However, a legitimate complaint, backed by a firm plan of action.... could change things. And of course you need PUBLICITY to make people stand up.

Case in point, I reported to the police about my handphone being stolen. I even have the phone number of the thief. Almost 6 months, nothing. Called them, nothing. So I penned a very strong letter, and have them forward it up, immediately I got a response. And within 5-6 DAYS, the thief was apprehended and handphone returned to me. But very badly scratched because of the use for about 6 months. Also, none of my contacts was there.

Had anyone heard that a lost mobile can actually be retrieved? It happened. Just make a strong point.

CEA also responded only after I sent them the second letter (no longer courteous).

Next point, I believe you also feel that your agent should NOT work for nothing. (He has a family to feed too and they could be counting on the commissions of this case to tide over. Some agents look good because they have to, but overhead running costs are high and some are literally broke, with mouths to feed). Besides, he is not the loanshark and has nothing to do with the loan. You did not spot the loanshark signs when you bought the house. Neither did he.
So, I really hope you will do the RIGHT THING and pay the guy. It's your move, bro.
Or perhaps you already paid him because you also see the logic.


>>>Tituman
Tituman, your rant on the 'catwoman' made me smile. Smile
And it is this prevalent 'bo chap', this is 'not under my jurisdiction' attitude that causes a lot of problems. The policeman you spoke to seems to suggest that the police do not care about the environment, and yet the NEA has no power of arrest. So, it's going to be a catch-22. Chicken and egg situation. In the end? NOTHING is done. And then what? Nothing. Problem continues until your family/neighbours get sent to hospital with dengue infection.
Nothing will happen until someone really dies from the dengue and then a witch hunt begins. In the end, everyone gets hurt (including the catwoman who genuinely loves animals in her own way). Lose - lose. Is this necessary? Not at all.
Just have to do something and MAKE someone in 'authority' account, take responsibility and solve the issue.

Even better, do something and MAKE someone in 'authority' account, take responsibility and solve the issue with a suggestion from YOU. Give them solutions to make their job easier. Help them to help you. Win-win.

Good luck with the issue!


>>>jimmychoo
Complaint liao but CEA reply that this agent is not in their list, they can't do anything. Suggest us to go ahead and sue her.

>>>>>

See, that's where I totally disagree with the CEA and stand by you. WHAT IS THE CEA for?
Registration only? What about non-registered agents? Do nothing? Then my question is WHAT IS THE CEA FOR????? Just to collect $200 X 27,000 agents per year???? RIDICULOUS.


I will show you something is going to be done to Chris Tan. I will forward my case strongly tomorrow.


>>>Honestly speaking, I don't trust property agent at all because I simply got too much shit from them. My first encounter was with an ERA agent when I am trying to buy a HDB house, he ask me to give him his commission first before the 1st appointment at HDB saying that it's new year time and he need that money. I refused and later he and the seller never turn out on 1st appointment ! The whole agreement was lapsed so I demand them to return me back my deposit but they refused. I follow another property agent advise to find a lawyer to issue them a letter of demand. End up they sue me to court and my lawyer tell me to file in a counter sue. The process was long and tiring, eventually I never take back my deposit and have to pay the lawyer and all kind of fees.

>>>>>

Thanks for sharing of your experiences, jimmychoo.

THIS IS THE EXACT REASON WHY I WILL NEVER ADVISE ANY OF MY CLIENTS TO SUE ANYONE.

Thank you.



>>>There are actually still a lot of lousy property agent out there whom only care for their commission. CEA can penalise them by voiding their license but do these lousy agents really care? Just compare that mild $200 to the amount of a property sale transaction, is it justify? I personally find that $200 serve no purpose and make people think that CEA is just there to make some money out from the agent. The CEA shall collect a bigger sum of money instead! The money shall be collected as a deposit.

>>>>>

Not really feasible. And I don't think there are 'a lot' of lousy agents out there. By far and large, only a few bad ones who gain notoriety outshine the vast majority who do their jobs in the normal way. And then a few who are really good.

I started this thread as a way to highlight an existing loophole within the industry that needs plugging 'Security Deposit Ransom'... not to encourage anyone to loosely slam the entire industry. Also, it is not fair to tar EVERYONE with the same brush, bro.
If you continually 'run into' bad agents, can it be how you treat them that caused them not to serve you the way you would want to be served...? Because if you have a pre-conceived notion that there's 'a lot' of lousy agents, chances are you'll continually 'run into' them.
Expectations sometimes equal experiences.

>>>sorry to those in the property line but this is what a consumer think – I will suggest that CEA collect a deposit which is equivalent or more than the deposit we buyer placed and implement point system like the traffic police. Any agent found committing serious offense like spending away client’s deposit will have their own deposit forfeited and license void. Point system will be there to monitor Agent’s conduct.

This is impossible to enforce since CEA have no way of knowing what is the price of the next property to be sold and when. Even the agent won't know.
And not all agents are millionaires to place that kind of money as deposit. Some private proerties... for example, a Good Class Bungalow that costs $37 Million, a 1% deposit = more than Three Hundred Thousand Dollars.
Totally unfeasible.


>>>I wonder if buyer has to know every bit of what to do, why on earth they need an Agent for?
I always thought that a good agent shall always ensure smooth transaction and avoid misundestanding?

>>>>>

Good point and I agree with you. Yes, that is what a good agent should do, and perhaps more.

LOL @ the rest of the point by point questions you asked motokah and he has answered you already. All those 'to-do' things actually don't have to be done by you at all. That's why you hire agents. I do everything for my clients. Beginning in my 3rd year in the industry, 100% of my business comes from referrals. That is a testimonial to the service I provide. I believe I am definitely not the only one. There are far superior agents out there that surpass my service levels. Chin up.
Only thing you have to do is (I hope, let go of any negative ideas and) treat them as professionals in order to receive truly professional assistance from them. People always do the most for those the truly like/love.



All in all, very good points raised!
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:25 pm

Look like hitting some balls help..
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:20 pm

I was reading this thread for a while and had been resisting comments so far but alas...

Seriously, Uber, if I am your client, I would be pissed at you instead of CEA for not getting my money back after 6mths as you are responsible. I would be even more appalled if you know how to contact the landlord but didn't because of unspoken rules not to 'woo' other agents' business. If your conscious is clear to resolve this issue for me, what is stopping you. Isn't it a more prominent unspoken rule that you have to act in my interest as a client?

There are many what ifs that could happen. The agent is no longer in this line and doesnt want to contact the landlord.

The agent took the money and intend to book a one way ticket with your client's money plus another 100 other nice guys like you.

The agent is a compulsive gambler and had been making losses an can't repay? The longer you drag the less you can recover.

Bottom line is that checking the facts on your client's behalf is your due diligence. Waiting for someone else to solve the problem for you in the 'textbook' way may seem like the right thing but it is in fact in my opinion rigid and kind of shirking responsibility. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't een bother writing to a minister. Seriously? You expecting Mr Mah to answer you? If you feel so strongly about getting them to solve the problem, call, visit. Go to the ministry and demand to see him. You will not end up meeting the minister but i am very sure you meet someone who would solve the problem for you.

I am not sure what you are thinking and you might have some reasons that I don't know but seriously, if this happen to me as a client, I certainly would feel that you are not proactive or that you don't even care. Caring is action. An action in this case is getting back my money. Telling me that you send minister an email somehow does not suffice.

Just to add this is nothing personal against u but hoping you will resolve this sooner just to be fair to your client.

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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:11 pm

motokah wrote:
shorthitter,

I'm sorry to hear abt the "collateral damage" you suffered from loan sharks.

Bad agents are in the minority, yet news abt their infamous acts travel far and wide.
While good agents go quietly abt their business.

Did you pay that MIA agent?


Yes mate I paid them both... Sad

What to do.....
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:29 pm

shorthitter wrote:
motokah wrote:
shorthitter,

I'm sorry to hear abt the "collateral damage" you suffered from loan sharks.

Bad agents are in the minority, yet news abt their infamous acts travel far and wide.
While good agents go quietly abt their business.

Did you pay that MIA agent?


Yes mate I paid them both... Sad

What to do.....

Motokah,

Since you are an agent and if you are in our shoe, what would you advice for us when evaluating an agents? I mean, how do we know if he ir she is genuinely capable and not out there to rip us off?

Fyi, I am not in this line but I like to be more educated when it comes to dealing with agents.
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MPA
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:20 am

motokah wrote:

Bad agents are in the minority, yet news abt their infamous acts travel far and wide.
While good agents go quietly abt their business.

i do hope you are right or maybe i was just being unlucky encounter only the "bad eggs"
i rented a place once and lost my 2 months security deposit..the rest is history.

good to know there are some upright agents out there...i do hope the industry is more regulated to protect the consumers.
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motokah
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:25 am

Khorkar,

Let's me start a senario where I'm want to engage a property agent to help me rent a studio apartmant in CBD area.

I would expect the following from a capable agent:
1) He to qualify me regarding my preffered location & budget.
2) Tell me whether my budget is right.
3) Suggest alternatives if my budget is too low.
4) Inform me the amt of commision payable for his services, check whether I'm agreeable.
5) Show me list of avail apartments within my budget.
6) Show me more details of short-listed apartments (such as condo facilities & nearby amenties).
7) Arrange appt to visit short-listed apartments, agent to be punctual.
8) Hghlight to me the from his knowledge & experience, the pros & cons for each apartment.
9) Help me negotiate with Landlord (or Landlord's agent) and to reduce the nonthly rent payable.
10) Agents to explain the terms & conditions in Tenancy Agreement for chosen unit.
11) The Tenancy Agreement shld show Landlord must refund deposit within ard 14 days upon lease expiry.
12) Agent to show me Landlord's proof of ownership before I sign Tenancy Agreement for chosen unt.
13) Issue Crossed Cheque (for deposit & advance rent) to Landlord.
14) Agent to check my IC & ID of other occupants & make a copy for Landlord.
15) Get Landlord's contact nos for emergencies or when appliances breakdown.
16) Agent to inspect the unit together with me for defects upon taking possession.
17) Send list of defects to Landlord so that I'm mot liable if Landlord didn't repair defects.
18) After I moved in, pay agent by sending a crossed cheque to his company.
19) Agent to arrange appt for Landlord or his representative to inspect the condition of unit 1 to 2 weeks prior to lease expiry.
20) I arrange contractors to fix defects where needed.
21) Vacate unit, hand-over keys to Landlord or his representative.
22) I expect landlord to refund deposit within 14 days.

I would think my expectations goes along with common sense.
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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:11 am

Sunny, thanks for your post!

However, I would advise you to READ before posting anything.

>>>>Seriously, Uber, if I am your client, I would be pissed at you instead of CEA for not getting my money back after 6mths as you are responsible.

First of all. It is NOT my responsibility, as stated clearly by motokah.
So, please know who to get pissed off at.

>>>>I would be even more appalled if you know how to contact the landlord but didn't because of unspoken rules not to 'woo' other agents' business. If your conscious is clear to resolve this issue for me, what is stopping you. Isn't it a more prominent unspoken rule that you have to act in my interest as a client?

You clearly did not bother to READ before posting. The landlord is in Taiwan.

Contacting the landlord while the agent is still in practice is something I tell my downlines not to do. Trust me, I am ready to kick the door of the agent down. I am just going to CEA to get the whole thing 'legitimized'.
WHY are you so stuck in taking a plane to chase the landlord when OBVIOUSLY it is the agent who is playing avoidance games? It is so clear who we should go after. And I wrote about many, many reasons why I am not going straight to the landlord yet. Obviously, you didn't read any of those posts that I shared with the rest.

Acting in the interest of the client is not an unspoken rule at all. It is the very reason why professionals are engaged.


>>>>There are many what ifs that could happen. The agent is no longer in this line and doesnt want to contact the landlord.

I assure you the agent is well and alive in the trade. Which is why I am going to put a stop to his illegal practice. CEA tells people that 'if the ''agent'' is not listed with CEA, there is NOTHING they can do and you should sue them, as stated by jimmychoo.
I give my personal assureance that I am going to prove the opposite and make sure CEA stands up and make something happen, against 'standard procedure' of 'we cannot do anything about them because they are not in our register'. How about that?


>>>>Bottom line is that checking the facts on your client's behalf is your due diligence.

What makes you think I didn't do my due diligence? Please don't jump to conclusions.


>>>>waiting for someone else to solve the problem for you in the 'textbook' way may seem like the right thing but it is in fact in my opinion rigid and kind of shirking responsibility.

Really? Is this textbook? Whose textbook have you been reading? The textbook way is to sue someone.
Ask motokah. Then go ask jimmychoo how that went.
Have you heard of CEA entertaining such cases ever before? Ask all agents. Answer is a flat NO. So, this is definitely wayyyyyy OUT of the textbook practices, as you claimed.

I pressed them. Now, they are inviting me to their office tomorrow for a meeting to solve this issue.
Is that WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, excuse me?
Is that shirking 'responsiblity'? Excuse me?

The responsibility isn't even mine. Please go and ASK motokah. OR READ HIS POST.
I am taking it on because my client has become a dear from of mine.

DO YOU EVEN READ????? I advice you to seriously READ before jumping in and posting strong (yet baseless) comments like that.


>>>>If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't een bother writing to a minister. Seriously? You expecting Mr Mah to answer you?


You obviously have never heard of 'The Pen is mightier than the sword', if what I do is not working, I would not have been invited for a meeting for both this case and the industry in general.

You wouldn't 'even bother' writing because you don't believe you can MAKE A DIFFERENCE, bottom line.

And I further assume you have never written to 'Ministers' before. Why can't 'Ministers' answer emails? They don't have enough keys on their keyboards? They don't have staff on house?
I invite you to write to the White House of the USA and TELL ALL OF US if you get a response or not.
I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER. Try it. Then let us know if Minister Mah is bigger than the White House of the USA.


>>>>If you feel so strongly about getting them to solve the problem, call, visit. Go to the ministry and demand to see him. You will not end up meeting the minister but i am very sure you meet someone who would solve the problem for you.

I firmly believe that you have NOT EVEN READ all the posts before jumping in and writing all these. Please show respect for other forum users by first READING their posts.

What makes you think I "WILL NOT" end up meeting the minister? I can see him in Raffles Town Club during breakfast. I wrote so as to "formalize" things. You seem convicted that 'the government' and 'Ministers' will do nothing about the cases of citizens. That's why you wrote so surely that 'You will not end up meeting the minister'.
You think the Ministers are all busy? With what? Let me tell you the prime duty of 'MINISTERS" = Service.

Suddenly, you become very sure that I will meet someone who "would solve the problem for me"?

So writing a letter to raise awareness and to set up a case to plug a loophole within the industry once-and-for-all is useless but banging on doors is useful? I see your logic there.

And I thought you said above that asking others to "solve the problem for me" is both rigid and "shirking of responsiblity"?????

What's going on now?



>>>>I am not sure what you are thinking and you might have some reasons that I don't know

Then ASK, politely. Or READ.


>>>but seriously, if this happen to me as a client, I certainly would feel that you are not proactive or that you don't even care.

I am very glad you are not a client of mine. I do have video testimonials from a Chairman of a publicly listed company. And also from the Senior Vice President of SGX. They are willing to lend their FACE and VOICES and their precious TIME for me. Free of Charge. Does that say anything to you about my commitment to service towards them?

And I too have written testimonials of many professionals, from CEOs to heads of companies and departments of major MNCs. I can show them to you if we ever meet. Just ask. I state this here for the record.

Just for your information, all that I am doing for my client, he knows and it is not just 'shooting an email to a minister and asking THEM to do the job'.

And my client, after all the emails, even called me personally from Paris to thank me.

>>>>Just to add this is nothing personal against u but hoping you will resolve this sooner just to be fair to your client.

I don't know what you ate today.... but from your post, it looks like you came straight for me though you don't even know me and I have nothing against you at all. And clearly, from your post, you posted WITHOUT even really reading nor following the going-ons of this thread.
Your words are strong and directed (at me). Why? I don't even know you. And it is obvious (from what you posted) that you didn't even read the whole thread at all.

Please refrain from doing the same to the threads of others. Read. Respect. And I shall do the same.

Thanks, nonetheless.


Last edited by UberGold on Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:52 am; edited 5 times in total
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motokah
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:12 am

MPA wrote:
motokah wrote:

Bad agents are in the minority, yet news abt their infamous acts travel far and wide.
While good agents go quietly abt their business.

i do hope you are right or maybe i was just being unlucky encounter only the "bad eggs"
i rented a place once and lost my 2 months security deposit..the rest is history.

good to know there are some upright agents out there...i do hope the industry is more regulated to protect the consumers.

With this CEA rule that agent are not to handle cash (or cash cheque), I believe it alone would prevent more than half of "money-handling" related problems.
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UberGold
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:14 am

>>>MPA

i do hope you are right or maybe i was just being unlucky encounter only the "bad eggs"
i rented a place once and lost my 2 months security deposit..the rest is history.

good to know there are some upright agents out there...i do hope the industry is more regulated to protect the consumers.
>>>>

And your example once again proves that I am pushing for the right thing. This is something that should never have happened to you. Nor anyone. Especially in a place like Singapore.


Sorry to hear that, MPA.

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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Who else thinks the 'Council Of Estate Agents' is a joke?    Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:37 am

Hi Uber,

I actually read your post and also motokah's posts. Maybe I am not super rich like your client and having 10k and above as bad debt is something I can swallow easily.

Your insistence of dealing at the agent Chris instead of solving the problem by talking to the landlord simply baffled me. Seriously, why can't you do both. Get me the money back and fix the problem of the system at your own time. Get what I mean? I can be sure that 99% of the people will feel more glad. I agree with motokah's words in solving the problem within the shortest time and not drag the problem for months.

Writing to minister is not wrong but it is just the wrong avenue. The last I check their functions are policies and not complains handling. You just create extra barrier for your email to reach actual ppl to handle complains. To your point, I will never write to the president or minister to complain about a neighbour who decides to do ktv full blast every night. Get what I mean.

Coming strong at you? I am certainly doing so because I seriously think that 10k plus is not a small sum. If every agent take 6 mths at their own pace to recover 10k, it would simply make ppl lose faith in agents. I would prefer motokah type of agents

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