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S70B
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PostSubject: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:47 am

Leave it to the Americans to teach Aerospace Engineering 101 to dummies like me.

Studying for an Aircraft Structures quiz and in the process, I have learnt quite a bit on metals which I think it can relate to golf clubs.

If you an Engineering Major, feel free to correct me as I only learn this in the past week or so. This will help answer the age old questions between forged and cast irons.



Metals can be both Ductile and Brittle.
Ductile metals exhibit a necking (elongation) characteristic before fracturing. Brittle metals fracture immediately without necking.

So in golf terms, forged irons normally are ductile and cast irons brittle. That is why cast irons are not bendable. If they are bent, they might just snap straight away without even having a change in its loft and lie.

Ductile is tough, displays malleability so that it will fracture at a much higher strain compared to Brittle material.

This is why Forged irons are easy to bend and change.

Metals which display brittle characteristics however are hard and strong.

It somewhats explains why cast irons feel hard as sh!t and Ping has the color coding system simply becos they don't see it feasible to adjust the clubs after purchase.

A Ductile metal can display brittle characteristics by changing its temperature and the rate of bend.

Take note this can relate to a clubfitter. It means that even forged irons can break if the fitter is inexperienced and tries to bend the loft and lie with sudden quick motions.

Also, for crazy ppl like me who didn't know better till yesterday, Heating up a clubhead under an open flame then cooling it quickly under water just to create a different finish might result in making the metal harder and more difficult for loft and lie adjustments. Of course, the temp to enable this is in the 1500-1800F range but it will still do so for the surface which might produce surface cracks.


A ductile metal will exhibit strain hardening once its bent past its yield point.

Means that if you constantly adjust lofts n lies for forged irons, the bend point will start to exhibit brittle characteristics till it will one day break. (think of a paper clip where you open and close it multiple times. The clip will break at the point of yield, ie the bend point.)

Ductile Metals will exhibit 'plastic' characteristics once past its yield point. Plastic means the shape cannot return to original state once bent past the point.

This means that if the fitter is unskilled, he might add offset unintentionally if he doesn't know how to control his club bending skills.

Annealing makes a metal softer.

Annealing is the process of heat treating metal then allowing it to cool over a long period of time. Its amazing how when metal is cooled over time, it will soften whereas when its cooled rapidly, it will harden.

I think its quite obvious I am thinking of the US Masters even when I am studyin so this post serves as a revision and also a stress reliever for me. Laughing

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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:56 am

This shows you are applying what you've learnt
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watermyforrest
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:59 am

Wow... You relate everything to golf, don't you?
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:03 am

errr... Rex.. not to nit pick but there is a heck of a lot more to it.. casting and forging are just the process..
the microstructure can be influenced with alloying/heat treatment/work hardening and other stuff

you got most of the basics but not all of it can be used if the microstructure science is not figuring in the logic.

I'm a material science major and metals are part of my core modules, so I'm quite sure of my science.

relating to iron heads, forged is usually 304SS or 1020C or 1025C.
cast irons will have some alloy and higher carbon. need to refer to a phase diagram and its heat treatment to tell you anything about the micro structure and physical characteristics..

anyway research has proven that feel or softness is all about sound, not in the forged or cast..

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JonL_TK
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:10 am

mizzy wrote:

anyway research has proven that feel or softness is all about sound, not in the forged or cast..

And like Mizuno's... they make the BEST sound!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:12 am

I know la. I said in the disclaimer mah.

I study for 1 week leh. U did wat? 4 years? I just covered the basics much like lesson 1 in golf.

Posted this for fun so dun take me too seriously.


Also, that feel or softness test which is 'sound' biased, is still being debated. I also tried it out for the fun of it by wearin ear plugs at the range before but the impact still feels different between clubs.

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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:15 am

mizzy wrote:
errr... Rex.. not to nit pick but there is a heck of a lot more to it.. casting and forging are just the process..
the microstructure can be influenced with alloying/heat treatment/work hardening and other stuff

you got most of the basics but not all of it can be used if the microstructure science is not figuring in the logic.

I'm a material science major and metals are part of my core modules, so I'm quite sure of my science.

relating to iron heads, forged is usually 304SS or 1020C or 1025C.
cast irons will have some alloy and higher carbon. need to refer to a phase diagram and its heat treatment to tell you anything about the micro structure and physical characteristics..

anyway research has proven that feel or softness is all about sound, not in the forged or cast..


bro,
so does that mean that even if it's cast, the softness can still be felt ?

interesting, can tell me more about the feel and softness related to sound ?
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:16 am

mizzy wrote:
errr... Rex.. not to nit pick but there is a heck of a lot more to it.. casting and forging are just the process..
the microstructure can be influenced with alloying/heat treatment/work hardening and other stuff

you got most of the basics but not all of it can be used if the microstructure science is not figuring in the logic.

I'm a material science major and metals are part of my core modules, so I'm quite sure of my science.

relating to iron heads, forged is usually 304SS or 1020C or 1025C.
cast irons will have some alloy and higher carbon. need to refer to a phase diagram and its heat treatment to tell you anything about the micro structure and physical characteristics..

anyway research has proven that feel or softness is all about sound, not in the forged or cast..


Dude, you in Materials Engineering in NTU too?

Yea....all these stuff brought back some memories. Very Happy
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blee67
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:21 am

asahi wrote:
mizzy wrote:
errr... Rex.. not to nit pick but there is a heck of a lot more to it.. casting and forging are just the process..
the microstructure can be influenced with alloying/heat treatment/work hardening and other stuff

you got most of the basics but not all of it can be used if the microstructure science is not figuring in the logic.

I'm a material science major and metals are part of my core modules, so I'm quite sure of my science.

relating to iron heads, forged is usually 304SS or 1020C or 1025C.
cast irons will have some alloy and higher carbon. need to refer to a phase diagram and its heat treatment to tell you anything about the micro structure and physical characteristics..

anyway research has proven that feel or softness is all about sound, not in the forged or cast..


Material Engineer working as mata in prison? interesting..

Dude, you in Materials Engineering in NTU too?

Yea....all these stuff brought back some memories. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:23 am

blee2007 wrote:
asahi wrote:
mizzy wrote:
errr... Rex.. not to nit pick but there is a heck of a lot more to it.. casting and forging are just the process..
the microstructure can be influenced with alloying/heat treatment/work hardening and other stuff

you got most of the basics but not all of it can be used if the microstructure science is not figuring in the logic.

I'm a material science major and metals are part of my core modules, so I'm quite sure of my science.

relating to iron heads, forged is usually 304SS or 1020C or 1025C.
cast irons will have some alloy and higher carbon. need to refer to a phase diagram and its heat treatment to tell you anything about the micro structure and physical characteristics..

anyway research has proven that feel or softness is all about sound, not in the forged or cast..


Material Engineer working as mata in prison? interesting..

Dude, you in Materials Engineering in NTU too?

Yea....all these stuff brought back some memories. Very Happy

he need to make sure the cell bar is strong enough to prevent anyone from breaking the jail...haha !!!
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PostSubject: Re: Metals   Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:34 pm

@Asahi! come must have a talk over it one day!

@Rex, sorry if i sound arrogant. don't mean to be. I know we are just sharing and part of the fun of the forum is to share. I too am a bit skeptical on the sound and softness part. in the end there is so much technical knowledge but its not really useful helping us get the damn ball in the hole! But i'm gald that one of our better golfers in GR has been inducted into the hall of metallurgy!

@snowman, you can cast an iron head that is softer than any forged 1020C, but why its not done I don't know.. maybe cost or durability is an issue? i'm sure the big OEMs have done it and figured it won't work for the public? casting can leave lots of porosity and material shrinkage that act as stress raisers. an iron head at impact can have lots of stress in the hosel which can fracture it. unless you use the miura way to spin weld? the hosel

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