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 Hitting further with heavier shafts

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mizzy
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PostSubject: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:29 pm

I just don't get it.

I've been to club fittings and all of them recommend i use light shaft.
my swing speed is not high, about 91mph.

I've been using NSPro 950GH, then PX5.5 and then just changed to DGS300.
gained 10 to 15 meters average from NSPro shafts. klt can attest to that.
Although he tried my irons on PX5.5 and lost 10 meters, sorry about that hehe..

SO... i just don't get it.. I saw TFP's comment that a heavy shaft is keeping his swing together? Do some people have swings that needs a heavy shaft to help them strike the ball better? stop the flipping or casting of the club?

is there some things that club fitting just doesn't solve and going against logic by using a heavier shaft actually helps?
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:36 pm

mizzy,

when you compare those shafts, did you use the same heads?
when you go to the club fittings, do they use trackman to measure your swing?
if they have trackman, did you compare the smash factor between light shafted clubs and heavier shafted clubs?

you might be hitting the sweet spot better (higher smash factor) with the heavier shafts.


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TheFocalPoint
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:37 pm

If you saw how 'all over the place' my swing is, then you'll know why i need the heavier shaft.. I can't really explain, but it's just the way it is.. sigh..
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:45 pm

pushslice wrote:
mizzy,

when you compare those shafts, did you use the same heads?
when you go to the club fittings, do they use trackman to measure your swing?
if they have trackman, did you compare the smash factor between light shafted clubs and heavier shafted clubs?

you might be hitting the sweet spot better (higher smash factor) with the heavier shafts.



on my MP60, on course, the difference between NSPro and PX5.5 is only 5 meter average longer. so I was kinda happy. ball striking was about the same crappy. hehe
I didn't get to use trackman for that.

in the fittings, the last one i did was on the FW. its not on the irons so its not a fair comparison. but the suggestion was I need a lighter shaft as my SS was 91mph.

when I got my irons initially, the fitter also recommend NSPro based on SS.

but funny how my smash factor is always kinda low... below average..

for comparison, i used to hit 5 iron to 150m.. now on occasion i hit 7 iron for the same holes i used to play 5 iron.
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:47 pm

TheFocalPoint wrote:
If you saw how 'all over the place' my swing is, then you'll know why i need the heavier shaft.. I can't really explain, but it's just the way it is.. sigh..

TFP, all over the place as in hitting the ball all over the face or just the swing not being in plane?
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:58 pm

swing not being in plane... DEFINITELY not in plane... Hopefully we can play together soon, so you can see what i mean.. Smile
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:12 pm

TheFocalPoint wrote:
swing not being in plane... DEFINITELY not in plane... Hopefully we can play together soon, so you can see what i mean.. Smile

wahh.. not in plane and you are still playing very well.. its like totally your hand eye coordination right on just to hit the ball!
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:26 pm

Mizz,

IMHO, heavier shafts equate to stability and accuracy while lighter shafts give you better distance less accuracy. Of course, wind factor, your swing, ball impact, shot visualization and a whole load of other factors play a great deal in determining the result of your game.

You may start your game with a heavier & stiffer set of equipment, however you will start feeling the effects at the turn of the 2nd 9. Thus, your physical condition also plays a part in determining the kind of equipment to invest in .......

Last but not least, its a wise decision to chuck those NS Pro shafts because ball flight dispersion is exceptionally high when it comes to the NS Pros as compared to the PX & DG shafts.

No offense to trackman believers, all these SS gadgets just provide raw data about your swing ~ which I previously swore by them. Ultimately, this machines do not tell you where your swing had gone wrong and it does not correct your swing mechanics...........
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:33 pm

Vinny bro.. long time!

yes your comments do make some sense to me..
actually i find heavier shafts easier to release.. more body effort and less hands effort.
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:56 pm

trackman only measures scientific numbers hor, not give opinions or explanations about your swing (well maybe a bit, based on angle of attack, open or closed face etc). Interpretations are best left to the fitters or pros, but if trackman tells you you are swinging faster and hitting the sweet spot better (represented by higher smash factor), and the simulated ball flight (or real flight is fitting is done outdoor) are straighter/longer then you must have somehow swung better with a heavier shaft.

Why/How? again, ask the fitter or the pro. That assumes the fitter is any good lah. I know having trackman doesn't mean he can give good advice Very Happy
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:03 am

PS,

well i like the ball flight. i like what i see.. the heavier shaft gets the ball in a penetrating flight. shaping the ball flight is easier but i'm still not that good and prefer to hit it straight when i can.

same hop and stop, except this time the ball goes further and I am misjudging distances by a fair bit now..

noticed that the ball does not drift and wobble in the air now.
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:13 am

Waaah, looks like the ooc gank need to watch out hor Laughing
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:45 am

aiyah.. not used to the new distances yet..
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:06 am

Mizzy, besides all the factors mentioned here which are measurable by Trackman, are equally important are tempo and rhythm, say whether one swings like Fred Couples or Nick Price.

I guess this is where the intricate art of clubfitting comes into the picture, the science is easy with all the numbers.

I recall reading years ago when proper scientific measurements were being introduced to golf and the buzz phrase was 'frequency matching' of shafts. The talk was that brand to brand and shaft to shaft, nothing was properly matched, hence the introduction of 'frequency matching'.

There were exceptions to the rule. They tested the clubs of a very famous pro (I forget who) from the days of black and white TV and were amazed to find his clubs were properly frequency matched throughout his set. Apparently this pro was very particular about how his clubs felt and always handpicked each and every one till they were to his satisfaction, all without science, just feel.



Last edited by Birdman on Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:20 am

BM,

yes indeed! glad to have your input.

i was afraid of Stiff flex actually. my measured tempo is 1.6-1.7s... average to slow tempo compared to tour tempo. this requires i think softer flex.. i think in the butt flex and mid flex of the shaft..

i'm still wondering if i should try DGR300 flex. but i'm happy for now..though i still don't know my frequency of the iron shaft..

now i'm thinking very hard about my driver.. do i go fit or do i experiment? the accidental discovery of mine makes me inclined like that example you gave to base on my gut feel and hit everything until i like something.. but that's expensive/difficult cause i can't get my hands on all that equipment out there.
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:07 am

If you think your tempo is slow, then it could be either a very steep angle of attack into the ball or very aggressive "flipping" of the wrists, or both. Both imparts a lot of backspin onto the ball and takes away a lot of distance by ballooning.

Like you, I was custom fitted with "R" NSPro 950GH. But somehow it just didn't feel right. Then I tried Rifle, Rifle flighted, Apollo Humps, FST, Project X, TX-90, Dynamic Gold and some brands I cannot even remember.

And the most amazing thing was DG X-100 tipped 0.5" added almost 2 clublengths to my very same irons overnight! Shocked Note this was way before Trackman or other swing stats were available to us common golfers then. Now I know it is the ridiculous amount of spin I put on the ball. With the trackman, I reached 9000+ rpm with my clubfitter's 7-iron.

Hmmm.... we should all be staying up to watch the Masters isn't it? Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:29 am

Hi r510tp,

my tempo was measured during the fitting.
my AA is very shallow usually. +1 to -1 deg on Driver and FW
flipping of wrist is there but not a lot now..

my measured ball back spin is just about right based on the charts for Driver down to PW and on a few shafts available there to try on trackman. strange right?
Distance for NSPro and FST iron shafts didn't really make a difference also.. frustrating really..

my driver has a nice mid flight trajectory.. but when i get to it, i'm like the shortest in the flight..hmmmm


its amazing you got 2 club lengths overnight with the shaft change, and its exactly what I'm experiencing.. so i know how you feel! but where you know its the spin numbers.. I'm still wondering what mine is due to!

yup watching the masters now..


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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:17 am

my driver has a nice mid flight trajectory.. but when i get to it, i'm like the shortest in the flight..hmmmm

Mizzy, you sure about that? Think you are the longest when we played. The only one that is longer is KLT and he is alway lucky Very Happy .
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:46 am

wah mizzy so pro now, next time we play, 1-2-3 ok?

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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:14 am

Use the heaviest shaft you can handle...thats have always been our advice.

what do we mean by that...

1. your physical condition
2. your training schedule
3. your playing schedule
4. your natural tempo
5. your swing
6. last but not least your preference for feel.

a good gauge is with a light shaft, you will do well at the very beginning and at the end of the game if your physical condition is average. and the same person with a heavier shaft may do well in the middle part of the game and struggle especially at the end.

i once fitted a very fit player who was using a graphite shaft on a X14. he is 50 plus years old and was heading the Home Team Academy. So when i increase the shaft weight from 60g to 110 g, which is 50 grams heavier, he gained 1 1/2 club immediately and over a period of 2 weeks was 2 clubs longer.

However if i recommend a heavier shaft, it would be best to explain why and perhaps build a demo for the player to take to the course. This works for both adults and junior as well. the initial response is always luke warm, but once they get used to it, they would not like a light club.

Analogy - you ask a competent bowler and 9 of of 10 do not use light balls. if you seek a good momentum and a smooth tempo, the heavier always does the job better.

Finally based on the laws of physic, you have to swing harder with a lighter club to get the same distance with a ball. However if you just want to achieve club head speed, a lighter club may give you better results. We all know that how far the ball travel is not dependent on how fast you swing the club alone. the ball travel because it compress then decompress and create spin (which is resistance to atmosphere) along the way.

if you put 3 different weight clubs (60g, 90g and 120g) of the same club head and length on a swing robot and set it on the same speed. guess which one will generate the highest velocity??

so my advice is still the same - Use the heaviest you possibly can...i am sure my customers will all attest to that.

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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:32 am

Thanks Eric, that's enlightening... i'm gonna guess the 120g shaft? hehe
since i do bowl also, i'm getting your analogy.
Now at least i'm getting the science behind it!
I'll buy you a kopi C if I come down to the den some time!

@Eiji, yeah I give you 1-2-3... for holes 1-2-3 only.. heheh


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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:33 am

blee2007 wrote:
my driver has a nice mid flight trajectory.. but when i get to it, i'm like the shortest in the flight..hmmmm

Mizzy, you sure about that? Think you are the longest when we played. The only one that is longer is KLT and he is alway lucky Very Happy .

KL's ball is drug addict ball lah.. must be soak in ganja or what.. hehe
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:38 am

mizzy wrote:
blee2007 wrote:
my driver has a nice mid flight trajectory.. but when i get to it, i'm like the shortest in the flight..hmmmm

Mizzy, you sure about that? Think you are the longest when we played. The only one that is longer is KLT and he is alway lucky Very Happy .

KL's ball is drug addict ball lah.. must be soak in ganja or what.. hehe

Your DGS300 shafts are about 129g, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:18 am

yes i think so based on true temper's website.. its 130g actually..
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PostSubject: Re: Hitting further with heavier shafts   Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:32 pm

eric, 1 question........

example if i stick to my current shaft... (not too heavy for me) and i start my gym routine again on weights.... i will lose distance right? assuming i got stronger...
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