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nanohenry
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PostSubject: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:59 pm

Hi all,

How you putt

Do you push or knock the ball during putting?

What is the different?
Push-short back stroke, long over travel (follow through)
Knock-long back stroke, short over travel (brake after hitting the ball)
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:22 pm

i thought is equidistance back and follow through??
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:10 pm

its a question that DRGir72 can answer very well. we had a long discussion about his subject and its got to do with green condition.

DGman
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:15 pm

Glad that I got a chance to meet DRGir72 next Wed to ask him.

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samT
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:17 pm

nanohenry wrote:
Hi all,

How you putt

Do you push or knock the ball during putting?

What is the different?
Push-short back stroke, long over travel (follow through)
Knock-long back stroke, short over travel (brake after hitting the ball)
Hope you like reading, I think its well written:
Golf Magazine
"The Best Putting Instruction Book Ever!"
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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:52 pm

Funny that me and DGman had a talk about this very subject.

It really depends on the green speed and condition. One of my theories about the low scoring in golf is relative to the speed of the greens.

Slow greens require the player to "hit" the putt and have a really consistent and repeatable stroke. One way the USGA or R&A could curb lower scoring is to slow the green speed down. This would require much more of a putting stroke. When the greens are super fast (while I concede it is much harder to judge speed), once accustomed to these speeds the putting stroke becomes so short that it is hard to veer off-line (at the professional level).

The amateur game is quite different. Fast greens can reek havoc on even the best putter if they are not used to it.

I would say that on fast greens, hitting or knocking the putt will be too hard to judge consistently. You need to stroke the ball and learn the proper weight of the stroke for the distance of the putt. On slower greens, you will need more of a hit.

If you don't agree I would say watch some tape of older pro's playing in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's....their putting strokes are much more of a hit in nature. This is primarily due to the speed and conditions of the green. As we get into the 90's and today we see much more of a stroke and I attribute that to the speed and condition of today's greens. They require less hit and more stroke (if that makes sense). I would say look at Tom Watson..in his heyday (he hit putts), was super succesful. Once the greens started to speed up he was not as effective and putting became his Achilles heel. I feel that was due to his hitting stroke and not being able to adapt to the increase in speed. Now this is just a theory, but one that I feel with proper research could yield some truth.

Anyhow..sorry for the long post. Just wanted to explain as best as I could. Bottom line is, slower greens more of a hit, faster greens more of a stroke (even if it is a super short stroke).
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:58 pm

thanks DRG.. makes for a good tip to put to use when i play!
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:07 pm

DRGjr72 wrote:
Funny that me and DGman had a talk about this very subject.

It really depends on the green speed and condition. One of my theories about the low scoring in golf is relative to the speed of the greens.

Slow greens require the player to "hit" the putt and have a really consistent and repeatable stroke. One way the USGA or R&A could curb lower scoring is to slow the green speed down. This would require much more of a putting stroke. When the greens are super fast (while I concede it is much harder to judge speed), once accustomed to these speeds the putting stroke becomes so short that it is hard to veer off-line (at the professional level).

The amateur game is quite different. Fast greens can reek havoc on even the best putter if they are not used to it.

I would say that on fast greens, hitting or knocking the putt will be too hard to judge consistently. You need to stroke the ball and learn the proper weight of the stroke for the distance of the putt. On slower greens, you will need more of a hit.

If you don't agree I would say watch some tape of older pro's playing in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's....their putting strokes are much more of a hit in nature. This is primarily due to the speed and conditions of the green. As we get into the 90's and today we see much more of a stroke and I attribute that to the speed and condition of today's greens. They require less hit and more stroke (if that makes sense). I would say look at Tom Watson..in his heyday (he hit putts), was super succesful. Once the greens started to speed up he was not as effective and putting became his Achilles heel. I feel that was due to his hitting stroke and not being able to adapt to the increase in speed. Now this is just a theory, but one that I feel with proper research could yield some truth.

Anyhow..sorry for the long post. Just wanted to explain as best as I could. Bottom line is, slower greens more of a hit, faster greens more of a stroke (even if it is a super short stroke).

Dan, great sharing! Would be mindful to stroke the ball next week at TMCC.

Looking forward to meeting up with you then. Thanks mate!
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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 9:41 am

@ asahi...Going to be fun. Looking forward to it. I hope that my explanation was easy to understand. I wrote it late last night and was not sure if it came across correctly.

Dan
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golf_snowman
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:47 pm

DRGjr72 wrote:
@ asahi...Going to be fun. Looking forward to it. I hope that my explanation was easy to understand. I wrote it late last night and was not sure if it came across correctly.

Dan

Hi DRGir 72

May i ask how slow the green speed is that required a 'knock' and how fast the green speed is that required a stroke ?

i just had a game in Horizon Hill last Thuersday and the green speed is so fast that even thought i thought i was stroking the putt, i have to stroke it even much 'softer'....
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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:17 pm

It will differ from person to person. Some people are naturally "hitters" of the putt and others are "strokers".. It will be more of a preference type thing.

From my own experience greens that are lower than 9 on the stimp meter required me to have more hit in my stroke...anything over 9 required a little more feel and rythym to my stroke. When greens were really fast I almost did not have to much of a putting stroke at all..so again all depends in the golfer and their level of hit or stroke already present.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 6:50 pm

DRGjr72 wrote:

I would say that on fast greens, hitting or knocking the putt will be too hard to judge consistently. You need to stroke the ball and learn the proper weight of the stroke for the distance of the putt. On slower greens, you will need more of a hit.


There are different schools of thought on this and I believe any putt should be a hit, not a stroke regardless of the green speed. Basically if the greens are fast, just "hit" it softer but still hit it.
I think Tiger is a classic example of a player that "hits" and he is mostly playing on the fastest greens in the world.

He certainly does not change his putting techniques based on green speed, I would suggest that he just hits it harder or softer.
His follow through to me always looks about the same length regardless. Definitely not long or longer than his backswing which is what all the teaching manuals suggest. If it was a "stroke" this would be the case

One of my putting drills I give my students is to hit putts without a follow through, basically stopping at impact. I call it "popping" the putt. This tells you a lot about the squareness of your face at impact and the path and it is amazing how much better distance control the student experiences. My practice green at RCC is super fast by the way

A "stroke" generally has a high upward follow through motion leading to mishits on the bottom of the face. A "hit" keeps the putter lower to the ground and impact is generally more centre on the face. A hit is much more "positive" whereas a stroke is more defensive and reeks of "just lag it close", not "lets hole it"

Initially the student will hit the putts too long generally because it is coming off the sweet spot rather than the bottom of the putter. Once they practice this new "impact", the judgement of distance improves

Maybe this video of Tiger and Stricker will give a better idea. Nicklaus also the same





The stroke on fast greens and hit on slow then poses the "grey" area as asked by golf_snowman about what green speed should use either method. I think best to keep things the same rather than having two types of putting. Just "popp" it harder or "popp" it softer
It is definitely possible to "hit" something softly


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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:15 pm

I thought tiger has like a fan shape swing path? But u guys are pros, so u should know better. DGman has chg my putting stroke totally, so now I make sure my follow thru is longer that my backswing. Results have shown that it's better especially for crucial clutch putts.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:19 pm

I would argue that Stricker's motion is more of a stroke than Tiger's hit. While I do agree that Tiger tends to hit putts I think we might be dealing with semantics.

It is hard online to clarify what one is attempting to convey. I do agree that Tiger is quite aggressive with his stroke and has almost no follow through. This illustrates more of a hit motion as he appears to be hitting the ball with the putter. What about Crenshaw or Faxon?? Would you say they are hitters or more strokers of the ball? I am just curious for clarification on how you would describe their strokes.

Personally I would say both Fax and Crenshaw are more strokers of the putter where Tigre and Tom Watson are more hitters of the putt.

I do agree that you an adjust the level of hit or stroke depending on the speed of the green. That is why I put in the caveat that it is really dependent on the particular golfer and their type of stroke. Some are hitters and some are strokers. I have seen both putt equally as well from amateur ranks all the way to tour level.

Personally as a former professional I found myself adjusting my stroke to the green speed. If the greens were fast I tried to be more smooth, if the they were slower I tended to be more aggressive with the hit.

Again I am not sure if we talking the same lingo or our philosophy is different. I think either way we want the same thing, people to get better at putting. But I am not sure again if we are speaking the same language but with different verbage. Either way I agree with what you are saying.
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:44 pm

duffader wrote:
I thought tiger has like a fan shape swing path? But u guys are pros, so u should know better. DGman has chg my putting stroke totally, so now I make sure my follow thru is longer that my backswing. Results have shown that it's better especially for crucial clutch putts.

Yea, me also a believer of making sure there's follow thru after my almost straight back thru 'backswing'. I am more of a hitter but it suits the greens I am playing at Poresia week in and week out.

When I play faster greens in Singapore, I aim to visualise more of a stroking action to cope with the faster green speed.

Oh yea, I used to hit and stop upon impact. That did not work for me.
But I guess, different strokes for different folks.
Use what's comfy for oneself and with what's instinctive and natural to you.
Dun blindly follow someone's swing just because it's classic textbook or he/she says it's the right way.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:54 pm

Both of you are golf Professionals in your own ways... your views are definitely respected .. somehow its going to cause some confusion with your different thoughts... maybe if possible both could come to a agreement and/or confirmed that what ever strokes used ie knock or stroke or popp or jab or hit, do we still have to make sure that the fundamental of putting still precede or different technique are needed. will one same putter able to achieved the different desire type of "hits" or "stoke" or "popp" which ever way we called it? (what if one use a "bulls eyes" putter ?)

For further enlightenment , for a very slow green and for a very fast green which is the better methods ? to go a step farther wat about Uphill and down hill ??

At "impact" is there any difference to the ball rolling characteristic either u stroke or popp or hit ? your views please.

I for one, believe if I were to use each different words for my stroke, it will feel different at impact and with regard to roll, the ball and characteristic are different too!

I use a "stroke" method for years, back and forth with a constance/equal speed for both stroke(back and forth) but different length/tempo for the different distance needed. so far, i have adapted to different conditions without changing my natural strokes. The question is, at impact, is it a "hit" or "knock" or "push" or "pop" or are they just a "word" ???

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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:11 pm

That is part of the charm of the teaching profession...people have different ways of trying to reach the end goal...make golfers better.

As a former professional that was my goal in each and every lesson. Make my guy or gal better than they were when they came to me. The issue at question here is whether one would constitute a putting stroke to be more of a hit or a stroke and if we are speaking the same thing possibly through different words.

I have stated that I agree with gentleman professional (I am now an amateur so my status as a professional is a thing of the past) that there are instances of people who tend to "hit" their putts. I don't agree that Stricker is one of those guys...based on the video relative to Tiger. Maybe there are different degrees of hitting in his opinion. Like I stated before I think that there is some hit in the putting stroke...to what degree could be debatable.

Whether there is right or wrong is relative. I think it depends on who reads or comprehends what is said. That is part of the charm of talking about golf and teaching the game. People respond to different cues, techniques, and verbage. What might make sense to golfer A, B, and C...will make no sense to D and E and conversely it could be the same. I think that is where we are here. Obviously you need to "hit" the golf ball in some type of fashion to propel it forward. Whether that is created via more of a stroke type putting motion or a hitting type putting motion is in my mind semantics.

On slower greens there is much more of a putting stroke and inherently more of a hit as you are required to propel the ball faster over the slower terrain. I think about a 10 foot downhill putt v. a 10 hill uphill putt. Which one do you think requires more of a hit or less of a hit? Which one will require more feel or fluidity in the stroke? On faster greens there is less of a hit and even less of a stroke. Maybe I was unclear in my description earlier as to what I was attempting to convey. On a 10 foot putt on various speed greens you will see much different strokes and hits. For example on a 7 or 8 stimp green there will be a longer stroke and require more hit. On a 10 stimp green there will be less of a stroke and less of a hit. On a 13 plus stimp green there is even less of a stroke and much less of a hit, these speeds require superb touch and feel that I find is lacking in the hit stroke.

Maybe we are speaking more about fluidity and the types of strokes that go with that. AN even back to through or more of a pop type stroke that is a little more aggressive and then stops and is held after impact??

Here is a video that shows what I am speaking about. Crenshaw (who I always thought was more of a stroker is in this video seen more hitting the put...long backstroke/short follow through....v. Loren Roberts who has clearly a different putting stroke, much more evne and fluid....very similar back and through more like a stroke than a hit.) I feel this video shows the issue...you have two of the best putters in the history of the game with two different styles. The only thing that concerns me is that they may be hitting putts to different distances which would affect the stroke type possibly..e.g. if Crenshaw is hitting a 50 footer and Roberts is hitting a 10 footer as those strokes require different weight and the video shows that..just don't know how far they are putting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xanhZg2BUSw&feature=related


I think it comes down to whether you perform better with a pop or hit type stroke or if you perform better with more an even fluid type stroke. I don't know as I can't speak for everyone. What I do know is that in the lessons that I have given, putting is very personal and people are unbelievably different in this area. Some like to hit and some like more of a fluid, smooth stroke...

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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:21 pm

Just saw this thread again....here's my view.

there is no right or wrong in putting. any type of action that puts the ball in the hole that the player is adapt at executing is what produce repeatable results. In putting its about predictability and consistency.

My mentor Nick Middleton tells me..the better the golfer, the more eccentric his putting skills.

i want to share this video titled Steve Sticker putting dilemma...



all great putters do not necessary aim at the hole, but a consistent takeway and finishing position will always produce predictable results. This is from SAM Putt Lab statistics from the top players in the world.

commercial break.....this one surprises me..i cannot authenticate if SS was the golfer making the putt but it was on Youtube. But it will not surprise me that he used one at one point in his career.



Stricker continues his putt down the line unlike Nicklaus and a little different from the former World #1. i went to check the stats for 2009 when Tiger when at the top of his game. 2010 wasn't the year to gauge Tiger's game.

PGA Putting Stats 2009

i also think that the Nicklaus and Palmer putting stroke was a result of equipment at that time. the advent of new equipment brought about changes in the way golfers stroke through the line (with a stroke that stays low on the ground on takeaway and finish) rather than a jabbing action of the Nicklaus era.

Not here to make give an English lesson on what stroke or hit means but the key to making putts rest on 3 aspects - putting skills, mental state and the player's ability to read line. i say this all the time...think about it.

its like saying the best ball striker do not always win golf tournament.

have a great week ahead.

DGman

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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:41 am

Great discussion guys
Opinions are like a..holes, everyones got one hehe
As is repeatedly emphasised in the forum, there are different strokes for different folks.
From my observations, most 3 putts come from players coming up short on there long range putts due to mishits thus leaving a difficult 2nd putt. From my teaching experience, I find most that have this problem is from follow throughs that get really high off the ground and long as a result of too much shoulder/pendulum motion.
The point of impact becomes very small due to the rocking motion of stroke, ie it is too much of a U shape with a steep angle of attack and high follow through . In these cases which is 90% of the time, I lean more towards shallowing the path by some shoulder tilt which keeps the angle of attack shallower and allows for a greater margin of error. Similar to the video Dan posted of Crenshaw. Mickelson is another example as is Faxon. Combine this with keeping the follow through shorter and lower to the ground. Impact is then more centre of putter instead of bottom of putter which makes distance control more predictable.
The stopping at impact "Popping" method is just a drill I use to get out of this rocking and encourages the "hit". Most average players I see almost look like they are lifting the putts or scooping them

My main point of the last post was that whatever putting action you decide to use, then I don't think you need to vary it based on green speed. That brings more variables into an already difficult skill. As the greens are slow in SE Asia even at Horizon Hills and Sentosa, its probably not as relevant here.

Interesting video about SS and his stroke. I learnt something today.

I still personally have to go with TW's stroke pre 2010. Nothing has come close to that in the modern era as far as clutch putts and great control of speed. We can all learn a lot from his stroke

Look at some of the "not so good putters" on tour, i.e Sergio, Adam Scott (pre broomstick) and they have more the "stroke" with pendulum type motion.

Just my 2 cents and what works for some won't work for others

The goal is to get it in the hole and as a coach, I still am of the belief that there is a scientifically, technically "best" way to perform every skill in golf. I have to have a method I believe in and teach that, I am not the type that will give every student a different method.
I go by the science, the video evidence, the statistics

In putting you need to do just three things, start the ball on your intended line at the correct speed with end over end roll. To achieve this there has to be one way that is better than another scientifically. A way that eliminates the most variables and can be repeated the easist. A way that can be modelled so that if the player looses his stroke, it can be quickly corrected by referring back to the model. A method that works equally well on left to right, right to left, uphill, downhill, slow or fast greens.




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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:03 am

I agree this has been a great and very informative discussion. I have to say that from watching the videos that Paul and Eric have posted, I have learned some things as well.

I was really surprised to see Crenshaw have such a hit or pop in his stroke.

I also agree that hands down Tiger is the best, most clutch putter of the modern era and his resume and putting record proves that, and he does have more of a pop type stroke. It is a great one to emulate.

This is what is great about golf forums is that you can have a thread where a question is posed, get a bunch of opinions and create a forum for discussion where people can learn and benefit from it.



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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:00 am

IMHO.

putting is more mental than technique, in most interviews with the great putters of the world, they will all say the same thing, the less you think, the better you get.

if a golfer putt short..... try this.....look twice at the hole, close your eyes and putt with their eyes closed. you will know why putting is more mental than technique. Its also a technique where we help to create the third eye. scientifically proven no, effective yes.

i believe every individual has their own signature and their personality is often reflected in their golf game. i don't think we need science to prove why the former #1 slump in form and i don't think its got to do with his swing change. the man is too talented to be affected by the execution of his swing. i remember not too long ago when he busted his knee and could hardly walk, most people will be in hospital but he keep going and eventually beat Rocco for the US Open title.

i have done a lot of putting analysis recently and one of the key things that makes someone putt short is simply the lack of hand eye coordination and/or anxiety.

here are some examples.....

#1 - there is a golfer who looks at the ball and the hole 5 times before he pulls the trigger. he comes short each time. we got him to look at the hole twice and he is right on the distance. in motor control terms, he is confused with the distance hence the need to look, relook, and confirm. this will affect his mental state and hence his judgement too. if he has to think of technique his problem will be compounded.

in this case, my best advice is stand at various distance and throw a light object to the subject, he or she will be able to catch it, throw it back and always get the right distance. this is simple hand eye coordination but you can apply it to golf just roll the ball to the hole. when someone throw a key at you or when you throw a ball, its instinctive. there is no judgement or anxiety, just spontaneous reaction. putting can be the same its how complicated we want it to be.

#2 - a very good golfer has his ball position changed after more than 30 years of playing golf. he also have his routine altered and this involve making the practice stroke facing the target instead of along the target line. he is Singapore #1 golfer and this change was effected about one and half months ago. there was no change to his putting stroke whatsoever. the last stats of 25 - 26 - 30 and 33 putts at the Panasonic Open is a good testimonial of his renewed confidence in putting.

in his case, he is very much a "feel" player but also one of those who can tell you that his irons are 1 mm too much offset. So we work with getting him comfortable and feeling the putter face at impact. its got to do with his master eye and hence the change in ball position from left of centre to centre. that very small change makes a great difference. he no longer sees a shut putter face and was able to putt on line and smoothen his pace.

who would dare change him...haha that is a good question....

DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:37 am

I agree with the man. He changed my approach to putting. I use to take alot of putting strokes before the actual putt. Generally now, I just walk to the ball, setup which DGman changed too, then just send the ball to the hole. Whether I hit it or stroke it, I can't tell, but all I can say it's has help alot. I can say my return putts is around 75% now.

U guys can try it, ever notice for four footless if u just walk up and knock it, it will e sure in, but if u stand over the ball, sometimes you might miss it. So generally, less thoughts in the head will allow u to putt better.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:51 pm

I am not sure about the concept of "not thinking about it", but I remembered Annika used to preach this "think-box"-"play-box" concept (not sure if it originated from Vision54, can google it to find out more). Anyway, what she said basically is you do all your thinking in the "think-box". And when you step up to the ball, which is the ""play-box", just execute.

Sorry if I digressed from the "push or knock" question, which I think fundamentally defined why putting is largely a personal feel thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:27 pm

DGman wrote:
IMHO.

putting is more mental than technique, in most interviews with the great putters of the world, they will all say the same thing, the less you think, the better you get.

We will have to agree to disagree there. Mentioning the great putters of the world, I am confident that there techniques are very sound so obviously mental will be the thing that plays the part. I don't think they were born with these putting techniques. It is something they would have worked on over years to develop a solid technique. They then can enhance their technique by developing better mental skills. I cite the example of Mickelson. It was Dave Stockton who changed Phil Mickelsons putting technique at last years masters that helped him to win. Stockton was the man getting the credit, not his mental trainer


i don't think we need science to prove why the former #1 slump in form and i don't think its got to do with his swing change. the man is too talented to be affected by the execution of his swing. i remember not too long ago when he busted his knee and could hardly walk, most people will be in hospital but he keep going and eventually beat Rocco for the US Open title.

Again I disagree. He is so strong mentally which hasn't changed, so surely it has to be a change of swing and short game. The mind is powerful but not that powerful. He went through similar slumps with his previous 2 swing changes. Why is this one any different. He also missed a lot of time with injury


i have done a lot of putting analysis recently and one of the key things that makes someone putt short is simply the lack of hand eye coordination and/or anxiety.

Is it plausible that this anxiety is due to poor technique. Bad technique breeds bad mental skills. Its a viscous cycle. Putting is the simplest of skills that even a 4 year old can perform so not much hand eye involved in that. I know elite sportsmen from other sports that have unbelievable hand eye coordination but suck at putting.

here are some examples.....

#1 - there is a golfer who looks at the ball and the hole 5 times before he pulls the trigger. he comes short each time. we got him to look at the hole twice and he is right on the distance. in motor control terms, he is confused with the distance hence the need to look, re-look, and confirm. this will affect his mental state and hence his judgment too. if he has to think of technique his problem will be compounded.

in this case, my best advice is stand at various distance and throw a light object to the subject, he or she will be able to catch it, throw it back and always get the right distance. this is simple hand eye coordination but you can apply it to golf just roll the ball to the hole.

I tried this many times. Once a guy threw the ball at me and it ended up 10 metres over my head and smashed into my teaching mirror. I also once tossed a ball to someone from 2 metres away to catch and he completely missed it and it hit him in the face. I will not try this again.


#2 - a very good golfer has his ball position changed after more than 30 years of playing golf. he also have his routine altered and this involve making the practice stroke facing the target instead of along the target line. he is Singapore #1 golfer and this change was effected about one and half months ago. there was no change to his putting stroke whatsoever. the last stats of 25 - 26 - 30 and 33 putts at the Panasonic Open is a good testimonial of his renewed confidence in putting.

Changing a players ball position is a change of technique, not mental. Time will tell if the stats in round 1 & 2 continue. How are his stats in Malaysia this week?



who would dare change him...haha that is a good question....

I would have no hesitation in changing him. I see him practice at RCC almost everyday and I believe it is his forearm and shaft alignment this has held him back in the putting. The change in routine, mental skills will also compliment an improvement in stats. I agree there.



DGman

I also find the statement that putting is more mental a little contradictory coming from a club fitter who uses a SAM putting lab type of system and custom fits putters for clients. If it was truly mental, wouldn't this be all a waste of time and money. We could just use any putter, any length, any weight and use your mind to make the ball go in the hole. I don't think so

I hope when you suggest it is more mental, that is a 51-49% split.

I have done all the mental training from Dr Bob Rotella, to the Inner game of golf, seen sports psychologists, read all the books.

My personal opinion is that these are all just "placebo" like methods that work in the short term but do not last over time. Its like buying a new putter or driver or new shaft. Initially it's great and we all improve, but give it time and it just become like the last driver or putter or latest shaft. I agree that a large part of putting and golf is mental but if you haven't got a sound technique, you can positive think, visualise, self talk to yourself as much as you like but it isn't going to fix your shut putter face or in to out path etc.
Take a player who has a slice ball flight. He comes out to in and has never drawn the ball in his life. How can mental skills suddenly make his ball draw on the dog leg left hole? The science will out do the mental in these cases


My opinion is that it is a combination of technical, mental, physical, equipment and tactics. To say it is mostly mental undermines the putting coaches out there and if this was the case, I would be enrolling myself into university to become a sports psychologist.

In closing, I think you are onto something with the mental stuff you are giving your clients. The reviews are proof of this. I just think the other factors need to be considered.
I think the best way is to develop a sound technique and then enhance these skills with the mental skills.

Just my opinion
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TYLim
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:20 pm

IMO
Putting is very individual, no right and wrong way to putt. Whether you hit it or stroke it, push it or hit it, just do what you feel comfortable and as long as you can put the ball in the hole at the frequency that you are satisfied. If you are not, then go back to the fundamental to analyse what to change. In other words you change the way you putt is because you want to improve the result and not because someone tell you or you read somewhere that your way of putting is “wrong” or you should change to a “right” way to putt.

The first fundamental in putting is: regardless how you would like to putt, keep you putting stroke, posture, stance, grip and grip strength and ball position 100% consistent, and you should know how your ball will roll and the shape and direction of travel. As long as you can repeat all these all the time consistently than you will know where and how the ball will roll toward the hole, then adjust your alignment accordingly.

The second fundamental in putting is to execute different strength for various distances and green speed. There are two methods; 1) by feeling. Feel the amount of strength to apply. 2) Keep the strength constant and various the length of the back stroke.

I only practice these two fundamentals in my putting: keep repeating to ensure everything is 100% consistent and the strength of putt.

Four steps in putting:
1) Read the line in all directions.
2) Measure or feel the distance and decide the strength.
3) Take your alignment according to characteristic of your ball travel
4) Execute your stroke with full confident. (Repeat both fundamentals consistently)
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PostSubject: Re: Putting-Push or knock   Today at 4:32 pm

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