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TourSwing
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PostSubject: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Thu May 19, 2011 10:46 pm

Have an idea about Vegas ... but how does 5/5/10 work ...

$5 for first 9
$5 for back 9
$10 for whole 18

Therefore, total winning (or loss) capped at 20 ... In the absence of being pressed!

??
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Thu May 19, 2011 11:09 pm

yes, that is correct, cap is $20.....w/o the auto-press of cos
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Thu May 19, 2011 11:52 pm

Thx, got it!
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 12:56 am

What is autopress? albino
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 8:34 am

Ssquirrel wrote:
What is autopress? albino

something your hands wanna do whenever you see the girls similar to those in Winston's avatars Twisted Evil


Last edited by eiji on Fri May 20, 2011 9:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 9:04 am

Bro

I feel that 'autopress' urge too whenever i see winston's avatars....
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 2:11 pm

TourSwing wrote:
Have an idea about Vegas ... but how does 5/5/10 work ...

$5 for first 9
$5 for back 9
$10 for whole 18

Therefore, total winning (or loss) capped at 20 ... In the absence of being pressed!

??

The system you described is more commonly known in the states as Nassau.
What we normally play here is a slightly modified version of it. Let me try to explain the different betting formats.

Modified Nassau
Let take for example we start the bet at 30/10/10 (9 by 9).
Breakdown = 30(bet per OVERALL 9 hole match) / 10(bet per INSURE ball) / 10(bet per BUY ball). Confused? Question
30 (bet per OVERALL 9 hole match) = how much you lose if you lose the 9.
10 (bet per INSURE ball) = when a match comes to a point whereby the remaining number of holes left is equal to the number of holes lost (or won), INSURE starts. Eg, 4 down / 4 holes remaining, insure starts. 3 up with 3 holes remaining, insure starts.
10 (bet per BUY ball) = BUY starts when a match is confirmed lost but not over yet. Eg, 4 down / 3 holes remaining, buy starts.

Why do we have INSURE & BUY? The idea is to give the losing side a chance to recover some losses thus maintaining the "fight" of the match. Let's try an example. A vs B.
A wins first hole. A is 1 up. (or also can say B is 1 down).
B wins 2nd hole. All square.
A & B half the 3rd hole. Still all square.
A wins 4th hole. A is 1 up.
A wins 5th hole. A is 2 up. 4 holes remaining.
A wins 6th hole. A is 3 up with 3 holes remaining. INSURE starts.
(If B wins the remaining 3 holes, the front 9 match is all squared but B wins the INSURE. So overall, B walks away with $10)
A & B half the next hole. Effectively, the front nine match is over for B. He is 3 down but only have 2 holes remaining. So BUY starts. (Up till now, INSURE is still all square - remember that INSURE started on the 7th hole & they half the hole).
B wins the 8th hole. B is 1 up each on INSURE & BUY.
A & B half the 9th hole. Overall result is A wins the match (wins $30) but B wins both INSURE & BUY (wins $20 - $10 each per INSURE & BUY) so overall A walks away with nett $10.

Now, if on the 8th hole, A wins the hole instead of B and they half the final hole, what would the end result be?
Yes, A walks away with a grand total of $50 ($30 for the match and $10 each for INSURE & BUY).There are also situations where only INSURE comes into play or only BUY comes into play.

Presses refer to the option given to the losing side to start a new bet (effectively a new match based on the remaining holes) when 2-holes down. In the above example, B could have "pressed" A after the 5th hole. Then effectively from the 6th hole onwards, a new match takes place. In the above example, the overall result would be A still walks away with $10. How do we calculate this? A wins from original match nett $10. For the press (new match), A goes 1 up on the 6th hole and remains 1 up when they half the 7th hole. B wins 8 so all squared for new match. With the 9th hole halved, no blood for the press. No difference right?

But hang on, what happens IF A wins the 9th hole? In the original game, B was 1 up in both INSURE & BUY after the 8th hole. If A wins the 9th hole, INSURE & BUY is all squared, thus A makes $30 from the original game. But A also makes another $30 from the press (new match) thus doubling his winnings (or losses if from the other side!).

Auto-presses is exactly what it states. It starts automatically whenever a player is 2-down. No options about it. 2-down, press. another 2-down, 2nd press, and so on. Not recommended if don't have the stomach for gambling. I personally have gone original game + 3 presses, a total of 4 bets within 9 holes, all riding on the performance of the final hole!!!

Additionally, in my example, the bet is 9 by 9. It can also be for the whole 18 whereby INSURE can come as early as 9 up with 9 holes remaining. But by playing 9 by 9, it provides even more chances to recover losses. After the front 9 match, a fresh game is started with the back 9. With my regular gang, the loser has the option to TEE-BOX PRESS & DOUBLE UP.

TEE-BOX PRESS - Option to wager the exact amount of losses from front 9 against the outcome of the back 9.
DOUBLE UP - Doubling up the original bet amount.

So in continuation of our example, B has lost a total of $60 to A on the front 9 ($30 from original game & $30 from press). They go to the 10th tee-box, and B declares TEE-BOX PRESS & DOUBLE UP!!

What does it all mean? Firstly, the back 9 game is now 60/20/20 instead of 30/10/10. (Potentially a maximum loss of $100 instead of $50 per game). Secondly, B wagers his total front 9 loss of $60 on his back 9 game. If B wins the back 9, his front 9 loss is cancelled. BUT if B loses the back 9, his total front 9 loss alone is $120. Add to that the losses for the back 9 match, B could potentially lose $300+ in total.

In this post we have talked about GAME, INSURE, BUY, PRESS, AUTO-PRESS, DOUBLE UP & TEE-BOX PRESS.
Next post I will describe Las Vegas and Baccarat formats.
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 2:41 pm

Wow!

Thx, and keep'em coming ...
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 4:18 pm

Baccarat
In Baccarat, the easiest way to proceed is through a point system.
The bet amount per point is pre-determined to avoid any disputes. Can be any amount per point but normally is $5 or $10 per point.

A, B, C & D start a 2/4/8 points Baccarat game. (Just bear with me for a moment...) Sleep
On every hole, a new mini-bet occurs. The minimum is 1 point per player. (Eg, if A wins B, half C & wins D, A gets 2 points.) On the next hole, start again. But what about 2/4/8?
2 points = Potential winnings if any one player in the group UPs.
4 points = Potential winnings if 2 or more players in the group UP.
8 points = Potential winnings from a Birdie score.

What is UP you ask? UP is the option every player in the group gets when he/she tees off. By declaring UP, effectively the player is doubling the points. I know, I know, still confusing right?

A is first to tee-off on the 1st hole. He hits a booming drive. He feels confident so he shouts UP... (the word UP must be declared before the ball touches the ground). B is next to tee-off. B's drive is as good as A!! B also shouts UP! C is the 3rd person to tee-up. C's drive is no good and so keeps quiet. D has similar results with C and also keeps quiet. In summary, A & B both UP, C & D normal.

In this scenario,
A's bet with C is 2 points (A up but C did not so bet is doubled (x2) from 1 point to 2 points)
A's bet with D is also 2 points.
However, A's bet with B is 4 points. (When A up, A's bet with B became 2 points. And when B also up, the 2 points became 4 points).
In total, A is looking at potentially a maximum of 8 points for the hole. (If A birdies, then everything doubles again for a total of 16 points)

What about D?
D's bet with A is 2 points (because A up).
D's bet with B is 2 points (because B up).
D's bet with C is 1 point (because neither D nor C up).
So D's potential maximum is 5 points.

And at the conclusion of every hole, the points must add up (balance). Total losses must total winnings. Back to our example, scores for the 1st hole are A (par), B (bogie), C (double-bogie), D (birdie). What is the individual total points? (Assuming that all 4 players are player level, no handicap is given):
A = +2 points
B = -6 points
C = -6 points
D = +10 points
(Total winners = +12 points / Total losers = -12 points) - BALANCED

Anybody confused with the points calculation above?
A = win 4 from B, win 2 from C, but lose 4 to D because of birdie so total = +2 points.
Try to work out the point calculation for the rest of the group... Very Happy

After the end of 9 holes, all the baccarat points are added up. And like my post before, losers option to DOUBLE UP (so for eg, from $5 to $10 per point now).

Baccarat places a premium on birdies. It is a system that gives an advantage to low handicap players simply because better players generally have a better chance of getting birdies. For example, A is playing off 5 while his opponent B is playing off 18. Even though A gives a stroke to B on the hole, if A birdies and B bogies, A wins the hole and at double the bet! So the game Baccarat is best played among players of similar levels, not too far apart in terms of playing skill. Secondly, overall game confidence is also very important. You may be able to drive the ball 300 yards, but can you put the ball 2 on? 1 chip / 1 putt? Make your 3 footer downhill sliding par putt? Like the say, its not how you drive, its how you arrive.

Baccarat is normally played as a side bet. The main bet might be the 30/20/20 or 60/20/20, and on top of that, the Baccarat game will also be played. Why play 2 forms of bets you ask.... Each system has its own pros & cons and of course thrill.

A, B, C & D. The day has been bad for A, bad drives, fat iron shots and dreaded 3 putts... A has lost to B, C & D the individual games of 30/10/10 (let's just say A has lost a nett of $100). But for 1 single hole, the gods take pity and gives A a 40 footer one putt BIRDIE cheers And on this hole, A, B & C up!!!! A wins a total of 20 points for the hole. At the end of the 18 holes, A's nett baccarat points is +5 (+20 for the birdie hole but less baccarat losses for some other holes). His overall nett losses in now only $50 (assuming baccarat at $10/point).

There are also many ways to make the bet more thrilling. One of my regular gang's favourite is the "18 ladies". Instead of 2/4/8 points, our Baccarat is played 3/9/18. No one UP is 1 point. One player UP becomes 3 points. 2 players UP becomes 9 points between the 2 of them. If either one birdies, the points double to 18 points! And at $10/point, that's $180 from 1 player alone!

My personal experience (3 years ago)... was playing "18 ladies" in our group. Was playing very well that day, had the honor for most of the holes. Came to the Par 3 13th hole at RJCC (Royal Johor), first to tee-off. Pin was located at far left side of a kidney shape green about 190 yards away. Send my tee shot right into center of green, perhaps 20 feet away from pin. Confidence riding high, putted great whole day, very confident to at least make my par, perhaps even a chance to sink for birdie. So i UP. Second player of the group steps up and prepares to tee-off. We shall call him AC. AC is a natural drawer of the ball. Big built guy. Always like to play with him, both of us are fighter cocks, always like a good challange. He addresses, aims at the right side of the green and rips at the ball. Ball starts right, and can see it drawing towards the middle of the green. He UPs.... Ball lands on the green, just past the apron. Because of his draw, ball kicks to the left and runs up towards the pin. Hits the flag and drops into the hole. WTF??? HOLE-IN-ONE!!!!!! We all jump and congratulate him. The amount of points that I lost to his hole-in-one? Get this..... He up, I up, so that is already 9 points. (Remember we were playing the "18 ladies"). Birdie becomes 18 points, eagle becomes 36 points..... Hole-in-one becomes 72 points!!! And at $10/point.... well... don't make me do the calculations again shall we Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 5:59 pm

I already have headache calc my strokes. This ups the headache.

What if there are two players with different handicap?
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 6:14 pm

Gray wrote:
I already have headache calc my strokes. This ups the headache.

What if there are two players with different handicap?

For players with different handicaps, the strokes will be given on the index holes starting from index 1. For example, A plays to 5 handicap and B plays to 10 handicap. If playing off the card on club handicap, A has to give B 5 strokes. The 5 strokes will come on holes with index 1 to 5.

And in turn, for betting purposes, if B bogies a stroke hole, A has to par to half the hole. To win the hole, A has to birdie.
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 6:34 pm

The betting formats that I have explained might seem complicated to golfers who do not bet or who are new to bets. But as in everything we do, anything that is new always seems more complicated in the beginning.

The principle itself is very straight forward, win or lose, plus or minus every hole. Then add up the total. That's all. But to automatically know your immediate position, whether you are up or down, by how many holes or points, whether you should press to take advatage of stroke holes coming up or just swollow the pride and manage damages..... this part takes practice. But of course, to practice, you must first know how to count, then only you can start practice the counting process!

There are over a 100 different forms of betting formats. But my purpose of explaining out the more common ones is to hopefully provide a clear understanding of the underlining calculation process.

I am more of a traditionalist whereby I believe true golf competition is match play. Golf competitions originally started as match play formats. In match play, the opponents get very involved in each other's game. It's you and me againt each other and against the course. Not only is it how well I play, but also how well I play against YOU. And that is why my favourite golf competition is the Ryders Cup.
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 6:44 pm

Some golfing quotes:

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. It's more complicated than that - Gardner Dickinson

I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them - Harry Tofcano

Golf! You hit down to make the ball go up. You swing left and the ball goes right. The lowest score wins. And on top of that, the winner buys the drinks - Anon

If you're caught on a golf course during a storm and are afraid of lightning, hold up a 1-iron. Not even God can hit a 1-iron: Lee Trevino

Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 6:48 pm

Some funny golf comments:

- Don't buy a putter until you've had a chance to throw it!

- A golf match is a test of your skill against your opponent's luck.

- No matter how bad you are playing, it is always possible to play worse.

- The less skilled the player, the more likely he is to share his ideas about the golf swing.

- Hazards attract, fairways repel.

- If your opponent has trouble remembering whether he shot a six or a seven, he probably shot an eight.

Very Happy Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Fri May 20, 2011 10:28 pm

So what about Las Vegas?
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 1:12 am

Vegas is for the hustlers ... a lot of $ involved ....

Definition: "Las Vegas" is the name of a golf betting game for two teams of two players each. Winnings and losings can add up quickly in Las Vegas, so it's a game preferred by better (or wealthier) players.
In Las Vegas, each 2-person team plays for a team score on each hole. But it's not a normal team score. The team members' scores are not combined; rather, they are paired: Player A gets a 4, Player B gets a 5. The team score is not 9, it's 45 (the lower number goes first).

If both players get 4s, that's 44; if one gets an 8 and the other gets a 3, that's 38.

The team score represents the number of points each team earns per hole. Points are tracked throughout the round and the differential is paid off at the end of the round. A single-hole example: Team A scores 4 and 5 for a 45; Team B scores 5 and 6 for a 56; the difference is 11 points.

Points can be worth any amount. Low-rollers should only play for nickels and dimes. Las Vegas is often played for a dollar per point, and it adds up quickly at that level.

And if your group of four is "flipping the bird," the money can really start to change hands. When employing this rule, a team that makes a birdie and wins the hole can flip the other team's score for that hole. So instead of the low number going first, the high number goes first. The opponent's 5 and 6 wouldn't be 56, but 65.

One safeguard: If one player scores 10 or more, that team's score uses the high number first. So a 3 and a 10 is 103, not 310.
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 9:06 am

I dun think Vegas is for hustlers, it all depends on luck. Depending on your partner.

A safe rule to safe guard everyone is to pair up the winner and the loser of the previous hole. This will be fairer in the game of Vegas.
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 10:49 am

Ahh, thats a good idea!

Btw whats the most you've won, or lost, in a game of Vegas ... Probably a fairly large amount! Hundred of $s? And thats what worries me ... As in i dont have the appetite for those amts ... Yet
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 10:49 am

agreed that vegas is more on luck. sometimes ride on aircon bus is shiok even when played lousy. lol..

btw @ tourswing, your definition of las vegas is found here

more on Golf Tournament Formats, Side Games and Golf Bets if you have time to read all.. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 10:53 am

TourSwing wrote:
Ahh, thats a good idea!

Btw whats the most you've won, or lost, in a game of Vegas ... Probably a fairly large amount! Hundred of $s? And thats what worries me ... As in i dont have the appetite for those amts ... Yet

My biggest ever ... i think once and last time i playing those bets. but it was my business partner in malysia that call those bets. RM30 a point. On a Par 5, I eagle, he birdie, the other team, par and double. You go do the maths. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 10:54 am

wah..can eagle on par 5.. long hitter.. dont want to play with u already.. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 10:56 am

mengteck71 wrote:
wah..can eagle on par 5.. long hitter.. dont want to play with u already.. Smile

I was a short par 5, dog leg left. So i cut acors water, heng heng. But if i know the bets right from the start, i wouldnt have cheong already.
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 11:03 am


"
So the mulitplication as follows:
Par and Par: Difference multiply by 2
Birdie and Par: Score reverse and difference multiply by 3
Birdie and Birdie: Score reverse and difference multiply by 4
And the multiplication continues accordingly.
"

So Eagle and Birdie: Score reverse and diff multiplied by 5 !!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 11:09 am

not that much, your multiplication is what my mentor plays. mine only reverse x 3
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PostSubject: Re: Golf Betting $5/$5/$10   Sat May 21, 2011 11:22 am

Ya, only 3600 RM on a single hole ... About to feint!
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