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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:54 pm

Had a new student start lessons 3 weeks ago. Couldn't hit the ball to save himself. One goes right, one left, one slice, one pull, top duff etc. I ask him whats his average score is and he says 110. "Hows the short game?" he replies terrible. I ask him what his goals are and he wants to break 100, then hopefully low 90's.
I suggest we start working on his chipping, pitching and putting and then get into his swing. That way he will reduce his scoring quickly and also learn some basics such as grip and not scooping the ball. He agrees
After 3 lessons, I have him pitching balls about 60-70 metres and his contact improving. I feel he is making great progress and learning the basics of club face, swing path, compression etc.
Comes today for 4th lesson after playing a game yesterday. He says he played 102. "Great", I reply. He says he chipped and pitched must better but his driver lousy.
I told him we have not even started on the driver but I reassured him his driver will improve in time, once we actually start working on the full swing.
He seemed disappointed to shoot 102.
I then ask him why he's not happy. He replies "I dont care about my score, I just want to hit my driver long and straight, my kakis out drive me all the time"

I then went to the office, gave him a refund for the balance of lessons remaining from his package and told him to visit www.longdrivers.com

Golf is a game of scoring not how far you can hit! You need to learn to hit a half shot before you even think about hitting a driver.

Cost me money but at the end of the day, I'm a golf coach, not a long drive coach.




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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:09 pm

Bwahahahaha!!! This is funny!

Many people get the kick out of outdriving his mates. It is a macho thing! That is why there is a huge market for technologically-advanced drivers today! Laughing
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cristel
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:17 pm

tsk... personal outdrive is much interesting than outdriving pals. he cant appreciate golf well enough..
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Yarra
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:40 pm

Drive for show, putt for dough... Some people actually pay to show off.
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ralphlim
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:15 pm

LOL, as the saying goes "can Drive, cannot Arrive"
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TourSwing
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:41 pm

Poor luke donald ... world #1 and cant sleep at night ... nightmares about ppl driving past him No

On a serious note, hitting long has its charm, but nothing beats shooting low and pocketing your friends $$$ cheers
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:50 pm

TourSwing wrote:
Poor luke donald ... world #1 and cant sleep at night ... nightmares about ppl driving past him No

On a serious note, hitting long has its charm, but nothing beats shooting low and pocketing your friends $$$ cheers

At one time, Fred Funk has to put on a skirt in a tourney which I cannot remember because he was outdrove by Annika Sorenstam. lol!
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:19 am

I've learned that having a solid iron/wedge game makes one very deadly.

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Newtogolf
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:19 am

Ego satisfaction I think.

Nothing beats to hear the girls going, "Wah~ The ball you hit fly so far......"
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stagedbrute
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:27 am

Turbo wrote:
TourSwing wrote:
Poor luke donald ... world #1 and cant sleep at night ... nightmares about ppl driving past him No

On a serious note, hitting long has its charm, but nothing beats shooting low and pocketing your friends $$$ cheers

At one time, Fred Funk has to put on a skirt in a tourney which I cannot remember because he was outdrove by Annika Sorenstam. lol!

Here's the link Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HIjS0Hf2Hg
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:14 am

The customer wants what the customer wants.

It was a miscommunication at the beginning of the requirement gathering process.

Hitting the driver long and on target is one of the hardest thing to grasp.

Heck, you still see top players in the world driving it into the rough, water, OB, etc, especially under pressure.

So, it is understandable that a student wants to learn how to drive further, to consistently outdrive his friends. He should have verbalized this unstated requirement in the beginning.

Obviously, "I want to break 100, and hopefully 90" is an entirely different kettle of fish from and somewhat diametrically opposed to "I don't care about my score, I just want to outdrive my friends"

Dropping 8 strokes and coming within 2 strokes of the 1st stated goal of breaking 100 after just 3 lessons is very good progress. Learning to hit the driver well enough to consistently outdrive his friends, assuming his friends hit the driver quite decently, will take much more than 3 lessons.

Over time, he will come to realise, shaving another 8 strokes is much harder.

A pity the value of what the lesson achieved is not appreciated. I would have said, yes, there is a lesson package that with a money-back guarantee that you will consistently outdrive your friends but it will take at least 1 year, 3 lessons a week, at my regular rates, payable in advance; are you interested?

From the sound of it, he might just sign up.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:27 am

stagedbrute wrote:
Turbo wrote:
TourSwing wrote:
Poor luke donald ... world #1 and cant sleep at night ... nightmares about ppl driving past him No

On a serious note, hitting long has its charm, but nothing beats shooting low and pocketing your friends $$$ cheers

At one time, Fred Funk has to put on a skirt in a tourney which I cannot remember because he was outdrove by Annika Sorenstam. lol!

Here's the link Smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HIjS0Hf2Hg

Tiger's line was a classic!!

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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:27 am

many golf kakis dont bet so the 'putt for dough' is out.

Playing in competitions? so many buayas with 18 HC but shooting 60s/70s not to mention almost everybody else shoot in the 80s.

what is left playing fun golf and long drive is one of the fun golf. Its nothing wrong to want to drive long as it is nothing wrong ppl want to score low.

scoring low can also be an annoyance to other people cause many wannabes will take a very long time to properly line up their putts/wait 220m out for ppl to clear the green so they can go for it/use whole 5min (and more) to search for lost ball cause will impact their score/ (but how to blame them, they are striving to play like the pros..just happy not many are copying Kevin Na's method). Also so far never saw anyone coming back to their original spot to hit after they cannot find their lost ball.

Either way for the pros and cons.

BTW for long drive, it really depends on a guys physical condition cause many can hit it flush regularly (with optimal launch angle and spin) but swing speed cannot be learned.

But the student should not insist the teacher teach him another method other than what was agreed earlier or a teacher insisting the student must follow his method no matter what. RSC returning the money is very gracious as i suspect other coach will either 1) anyhow teach to satisfy the customer 2) refuse to change method and refuse to refund.

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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:32 am

I concur on Tiger's line being a classic! ROFL

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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:55 am

tronos wrote:

BTW for long drive, it really depends on a guys physical condition cause many can hit it flush regularly (with optimal launch angle and spin) but swing speed cannot be learned.

I would like to respectfully disagree. Certainly swing speed can be learned, irrespective of physical condition.

Unless the swing is already basically biomechanically perfect (and how many top pros can claim their swing is perfect?), it is possible to get someone to achieve faster swing speed, and often with less effort.

Especially beginners, who tend to use all the wrong muscles in the wrong sequence. Just correcting this alone will result in a more efficient swing, ie. faster swing speed with less effort.

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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:39 pm

tronos wrote:

what is left playing fun golf and long drive is one of the fun golf. Its nothing wrong to want to drive long as it is nothing wrong ppl want to score low.

scoring low can also be an annoyance to other people cause many wannabes will take a very long time to properly line up their putts/wait 220m out for ppl to clear the green so they can go for it/use whole 5min (and more) to search for lost ball cause will impact their score/ (but how to blame them, they are striving to play like the pros..just happy not many are copying Kevin Na's method). Also so far never saw anyone coming back to their original spot to hit after they cannot find their lost ball.

Either way for the pros and cons.

Very interesting perspective indeed ... can't say I relate to it one bit , but I must respect the difference in psyche ... things like these make Golf enjoyable for such a diverse group of people ... and after all, long driving is a full-time profession for some .. cheers

and props to Coach for handling the situation in a such a proper manner, with integrity!
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:19 pm

Having a straight and long drive has its advanatge if the course is very long. It is gonna be a tall order to achieve a PAR let alone a birdie if you are a short hitter.

To put thing in perspective, if one can drive 270 yards in a PAR 5 500 yards hole, he is left with 230 yards. He may be able to do two or three on from there depending on his skill (or his luck sometime). Therefore he may still get to PAR or birdie if his short game is reasonably good.

If he can only manage 200 yards off the tee, he is left with a whopping 300 yards to go. I doubt he can do two on from there. It is confirm a 3 on if not a four on. Hence, he has no chance to birdie unless he can chip into the hole. Even a PAR is a struggle if he is not skilled in his short game. Hence, if your short game is damn solid, you may only get a PAR or Bogie or worse (if not so solid).

Besides the above, if one can drive long and found the fairway, it definitely gives one added confidence to hit the second shot. Thats how I felt ... Not sure about you guys.

The moral of the story is, having a long drive can be highly advantageous because of the above situation.

cheers


Last edited by Turbo on Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:27 pm

So here is how I look at this fm a 'short hitter aka pea shooter ' perspective:


1. Every start of the new golf season, I review my goal. Presently my goal is to be able to hit my irons properly...ie more consistent along the sweet spot.

2. I will like to maintain a good pace as it is very critical when playing with better or better-er player...and to do that, I am investing more focus on item #1 and working on my stamina in case walking course.

3. Is driver important, of coz. I think the travel distance of my current tee off is quite good...but just that it does a power fade. Do I need to add more distance....NO....coz I decided to straigten my drive....I now setup with abit of open stance and a big thank you to Tity-D2
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:45 pm

Actually I will rephrase the topic to 2nd dumbest thing I've ever heard cause the one I just heard now is even dumber. Will post the full details tonight when I finish lessons.
I'm scratching my head right now
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Hogan
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:17 pm

I think coaches should have understanding and patience with their students. Both student and coach should be clear of what they want and what can be achieved in the beginning.
A long straight drive is every golfers dream but not every golfer can achieve this and this depends on many factors. For example, it is not the same learning golf when you are 14 compared to when you are 44. Attitude can only do so much for you but if your body is unwilling, there is no way you can drive it very long. At the end of the day, what we want is to keep the golfers hopes and enthusiasm alive so that we can grow the golf community. I think golfers here are already too few, not to mention that some people think of golf and golf courses in Singapore as a waste of resources. So, let's keep every golfer alive.
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samT
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:38 pm

Actually I thought the student answered each question quite honestly. I thought it was understandable that he felt disappointed that he has yet achieved a "longer drive" than his friends (I am not even sure he said "straight" in the first place). Most of us probably went through the same things when we start golf, and possibly still learning as we go along.

My point is - while students could be "dumb", we also need teachers to inspire, guide and manage our expectations as students.

My 2c.
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beerbutt
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:32 pm

From my perspective, which is one from the shortest driver of the bunch, i can emphatise with the student's mindset.

As silly as it is to think that he doesn't care about his score and just wants to drive it long, I confess I have those feelings too. Especially when my buddies say "Don't worry dude, I can see your ball" yeah thanks, its only 180m away, thanks very much i can bloody well see it too, thanks for rubbing it in. I have gone as far as to change my swing, to squeeze out some more distance from my clubs.

This move is in my bid to keep up with my friends and not feel so humiliated by their 230-250m drives! I used to have a pretty handy short game though, up and downs were not surprising.

Alas, after i changed my swing, i destroyed my shortgame and now I play like crap.

My point is that to enjoy the game with your regular bunch of kakis, its really not unwarranted that he wants to drive the ball well.

He just doesn't understand that he will never be able to do so if he can't even do a decent half swing as you said.

Just my 2 cents worth, maybe if you had taken his money haha, and spent more time convincing him of the error in his thinking. He would have become a better golfer, and you would have money in the bank!

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myeow
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:45 pm

For me, the student's expectation after 3 lessons was wrong. If he meant what he says;
"I dont care about my score, I just want to hit my driver long and straight, my kakis out drive me all the time"

He has not even gone into driving lesson yet. Score 102 after only 3 lessons and still not happy. His perspective is wrong and rightly should go for long drive lesson instead.
Just my 2 cents.

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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:11 pm

Sounds like a student/coach relationship that never meshed. It happens.

Sometimes it is like oil and water no matter what you do in an attempt to make it work.
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Dumbest thing I ever heard   Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:45 pm

Just to clarify, the reason I gave him the refund was that after much explanation and encouragement the student could not appreciate that he will never be able to hit longer unless he learns some basics first. Trying to run before he walks never works from my experience.
This is the whole point of the thread "if you can't hit a 70 m pitch then how all of a sudden can you expect to hit a 200+ m drive."
I told him I could not improve his driver until he grasped some basics first.
He wasn't prepared to take my professional advise so best thing to do was refund. Maybe other coaches out there have a magical formula for his needs but I don't so why waste his money or my time.
Also if he had been clear in the 1st lesson about his goals, I would never signed him up to start with.
Some good comments and feedback. Having Luke Donald as world no. 1 is great to see and gives us shorter hitters hope that we can still play low scores without the longest drives.

Drive for show etc etc and it's how you arrive are more important for enjoying the game in my opinion
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