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 Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)

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punkrockpga
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:03 pm

golf_snowman wrote:

however, i do wanna emphase that all aspect of the game (drive, fairway game, short game, putting, hazard play), all required lots of practise, there is no which one is easier or which one is tougher....and identifying individual's weakness and strengthen them is important too.....

Snowman you hit the nail on the head.

In golf, you get out what you put in.
If you practice all parts of your game equally including the mental focus, and are committed to improvement through learning and practice, there is no doubt that you will move along nicely. Of course this takes time and committment that most golfers just don't have.
If you prefer to play play play and just arn't into putting the time into practice, or maybe you do put the time in but you don't know how to practice productively, well, your improvement will move along much slower.
If, like so many golfers here in Singapore, have only the time to play one or two games a month and very little time to practice, just enjoy your time out on the golf course and understand that it is just not enough golf to have any expectations. Forever it will be one step forward, two steps back. Try to understand your strenghts and weakness and do your best to play to them, but don't be discouraged when it seems like you are spinning your wheels because in the end you will get out what you put in.

If you are a golfer who is keen to improve but just seem to be spinning your wheels and don't know how to move forward with your game, I highly recommend finding a good coach.

A good coach will help you identify strenghts and weakness, set goals that are realistic based on how much time and effort you are willing to put into the process.

As a coach it is my job to make sure that my students have a good understanding of the physical techniques that they need, and the mental techniques that allow them to be consistent in practice and in playing on the golf course (how many of you can hit it nicely on the driving range, or are great on the practice green but just can't make it work the same out on the golf course).
I have to coach someone someone who plays golf once a week differently than someone who plays golf once a month. Sometimes golfers come to me and want me to tell them exactly what to work on and what goals to work towards, sometimes they already know what they want but just don't know how to get it.

In the end, it is my job or the job of any coach to understand that every golfer plays for different reasons, with different abilities, time committments, and with different goals in mind. I feel that I have knowledge and the tools to help golfers learn and improve now matter what the situation is. My experience in both playing, teaching, education and cotinuous studies, and background as a Golf Professional help me understand the game as it is played on all levels, beginner or tour player. There are a number of great coaches here in Singapore and if you are one of those golfers who feels like you are spinning your wheels and want to start making some progress, get a hold of me, or any other coach you might know of and just have a discussion about the process.

If you are one of those golfers who just doesn't have the time, or maybe the budget or just can't be botherd to put in the effort. Just remember that in the end, like anything, you get out what you put in, and just enjoy the game for what it is, a whole lot of fun!

Congrats to Darren Clarke for an amazing Open Championship! It was a whole lot of fun to watch.


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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:11 pm

actually I always wanted to ask this question ...so here goes:


Is there a swing that is easily repeatable which require minimal practise.....?
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dmateo
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:15 pm

yes there is.. it's called the practice swing.. ROFL
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mizzy
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:15 pm

i think the one plane swing. not sure about if it translate to the short game.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:28 pm

so i guess all aspects are important and nothing is over rated?

Just that i do get the feeling that long drivers know that they need a good short game but good short gamers think they do not need a long drive (but they actually already do have a longish drive).

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punkrockpga
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:50 pm

tronos wrote:
so i guess all aspects are important and nothing is over rated?


All aspects are important yes.
My angle on this is all about better golf, period.
Better golf is calulated by the score on the card at the end of the round.

Fewer strokes.

Long Drives and Greens in Regulation are still over rated

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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:55 pm

Question.....

If long drive and green on regulation is over-rated, will high % on putting statistic assured winning probability? Or simple, could it be a good combination of all 2 or 3 aspects and a bit of luck?
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:09 pm

Well done Brad on a very well written and thought out thread. I enjoy reading your posts. I will take a lot of what you have written and incorporate it into my teaching.
Particularly agree with you on moving golfers forward a tee or two.
From what I experience teaching here there is many of the ego driven golfers with unrealistic ideas of how hard this game is to play and reach a single handicap level.
Playing once or twice a month and practicing on the range a few times isn't realistically going to get you much better. Either will changing equipment or shafts every other day which is quite the norm here. I hear of golfers with 2 or more sets of clubs with all different specs. New drivers and putters being replaced as often as TM release them (which is a lot).
My father is a 3 handicap golfer who took up the game at 35 y/o. In 20 years of golf he has rarely changed equipment. His driver is still an old Callaway Big Bertha, his irons an old set of Henry grifffiths. He would not even know what a Diamana shaft is or what his lie angles are set to. He knows how his clubs perform therefore can become consistent in using them. My brother works for Callaway golf and brings home the latest drivers and irons for him at no charge but he sticks with his old crappy clubs because he knows what works for him.
Why he plays well is he plays 3-4 rounds per week and spends a couple hours per day after work practicing his chipping and putting. The course he is a member at has no driving range so no pointless hrs of practice just bashing balls. He drives it only around 220m carry.
I realise that in Singapore, this type of practice is not possible for most but as long as golfers are realistic about there goals and expectations then we can all enjoy the challenge.
I know myself, if I don not play or practice that often I loose my game and confidence on the course. I would hate to add to that by playing from the longest tees with a new set of iron or driver or different shaft every other time.
Keep up the great posts mate and hope to have a game again soon






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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:18 pm

Whether I bomb it 280 metres or it's a two foot putt it's still considered a stroke.

Like Punkrock pga says it's the score that ultimately counts, in which case I think I have more control over whether I can make that sidehill sliding two footer to save a stroke. Helps too that I can practice putting at home, but not my drives.

Still, I would like to drive it longer. Very Happy


Last edited by Birdman on Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:23 pm; edited 4 times in total
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zhenxua
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:18 pm

the comparison between bubba and Steve cannot be used to compare with the likes of leisure golfers

1. average driving distance: bubba 311 yds, Steve 287 yds. The diff is only 24 yds or 20m. for leisure golfers, the diff could be up to 50m or 70m

2. avg GIR: bubba 13 Steve 12. The diff is only 1. that could be a lot of diff for pro, but 1 is almost negligible for us leisure golfers

3. avg scrambling: bubba 2.3 Steve 3.9. here we can see significant diff.

if we really want to compare, we should find a pro who can only drive 250 yds on average but have a short game comparable with steve's, but I doubt we can find one ...
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:23 pm

BTW the new British Open winner rates driver distance as very important in his old interviews. He is also no slouch in the driving distance category (pgatour.com shows his avg to be 311.8 yards for the game he played in the PGA tour).

over rated in the sense of casual players that will spend $800 for a new driver, another $400 to get fitted for the shaft but play rock hard 50cents distance ball and no specialist wedges, just the PW and SW from their iron sets.

But not over rated for players that realize that he is more accurate from 120m than from 140m.
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punkrockpga
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:37 pm

Over rated
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TourSwing
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:48 pm

Question: What differentiates a good golfer from an average golfer???

Answer: The scoring zone!

Question: What is the scoring zone, and why is it called that???

Answer: ;-)

On Green
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:52 pm

ZX, how about Jiali?

Her length off the tee is comparable to male golfers with above average distance. Not as long as you or Alvin, but surely pass 220m
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:52 pm

As I mentioned earlier, long drives should be seen from the perspective of the pros and the average weekend warrior. It's a different ball game for each.

No doubt from a tour pro's it is very much advantageous since they are able to bomb it 300 yards out there accurately into the middle of a fairway 2/3 the size of what we amateurs normally play. And they can work the ball left or right on command.

There are many amateurs who can hit it as long as the pros, but how many can claim to have the same accuracy and mastery over ball flight with the driver, let alone knowledge of course management from the tee box.

It's like putting the same sniper rifle into the hands of an unskilled shooter and a marksman. Both have exactly the same power, who do you think is going to hit that target 1km away?

Remember the old saying about power without control?
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:54 pm

zhenxua wrote:


if we really want to compare, we should find a pro who can only drive 250 yds on average but have a short game comparable with steve's, but I doubt we can find one ...

Just checked the Senior PGA Tour, a couple of guys that stood out and may fit the mould

Ben Crenshaw at 254 yards and Corey Payin at 260

also the LPGA

Karrie Webb 252 yards, Ai Miyazoto 249.9 yards, Morgan Pressel 242 yards

Asian Tour

Wirichant at 267 yards who just won on One Asia tour yesterday

All are multiple winners, some major winners
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zhenxua
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:04 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
zhenxua wrote:


if we really want to compare, we should find a pro who can only drive 250 yds on average but have a short game comparable with steve's, but I doubt we can find one ...

Just checked the Senior PGA Tour, a couple of guys that stood out and may fit the mould

Ben Crenshaw at 254 yards and Corey Payin at 260

also the LPGA

Karrie Webb 252 yards, Ai Miyazoto 249.9 yards, Morgan Pressel 242 yards

Asian Tour

Wirichant at 267 yards who just won on One Asia tour yesterday

All are multiple winners, some major winners

sorry, which male pro won a major with 250yd drives.
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golfool2009
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:07 pm

This is the never ending question and the quest for distance for amateur golfers will never end....

My 2 cents worth is that all weekend warriors should strive to hit at least 220m/230m with a consistent ball flight...after that, it's all to do with your wedges and putter.....anything less than 230m, and you'll always struggle from the blue tee.....unless you're pinocchio, hitting woods/hybrids are always going to be difficult when compared against guys with irons in their hands...

Lack of driver/iron distance is a result of poor technique...as much as i joke about my half-swing, this was a result of taking shortcuts when learning the game and not having good fundamentals....this means that people like myself are always fighting an uphill battle...once in a while we'll catch lighning in a bottle....other days, it feels like running underwater......
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:11 pm

Crenshaw and Pavin both have won majors. Can't say what there driving distances were back then but Pavin has always been a noted short hitter with a sharp short game. He beat Greg Norman to win the US Open back in 1995
Crenshaw has won 2 masters and is one of the greatest putters of all time

Just trying to reinforce the point that good scoring is possible with a short drive and good short game

Peace
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:21 pm

TourSwing wrote:
Question: What differentiates a good golfer from an average golfer???

Answer: The scoring zone!

Question: What is the scoring zone, and why is it called that???

Answer: ;-)

On Green

what if your drives almost always leave you short of the scoring zone?
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:25 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
Crenshaw and Pavin both have won majors. Can't say what there driving distances were back then but Pavin has always been a noted short hitter with a sharp short game. He beat Greg Norman to win the US Open back in 1995
Crenshaw has won 2 masters and is one of the greatest putters of all time

Just trying to reinforce the point that good scoring is possible with a short drive and good short game

Peace
Just found the stats from 1995. Pavin was 159th in driving distance at 254 yards average. He won the US Open at Shinnecock Hills which played 6950 yards
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:29 pm

Corey Pavin in particular stands out for me, he is an excellent fairway wood player.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:35 pm

just a perspective, what is long and what is short?

For local casual players, long should be 200m. Short is 150m. Its not the 20+ yards difference as in the pros.

personally started out at 150m now closer to 180m and going for driver accuracy (take out the 20m-50m shanks Razz) Dont need the monster 240m drives, just good distance long drive.

GIR cannot be overrated, its just show the guy is a very bad putter



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dmateo
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:45 pm

I hate to say this but the world is not fair. There is a thing called born genius and talent.
you can overcome some with practice but not all.
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PostSubject: Re: Long Drives and Greens in Reguation are over rated (Part 1)   Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:50 pm

What is under rated amongst us leisure golfers?

1. Hitting fairway woods off the deck at least 180m and STRAIGHT
2. Pitch ON to the green from 30 to 80m
3. Chip CLOSE to the pin
4. Getting out of bunkers in ONE try and ON to the green

I see quite a few long driver with handicap 18 and above, but it's even more rare to see a high handicaper who can do the above four skills
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