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 Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger

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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:05 am

I observed that Tiger did well initially in Day 1 for the first few holes, and then the old swing seemed to come back, mixed up with the new swing.

That's why I've always felt it is so important to get the swing right in the and then stick with it.

Tiger had a swing which worked spectacularly for many years, albeit he often missed from the fairways but the misses were playable, and with some minor adjustments through the years, the swing was good for 14 majors. However that swing simply destroyed the left knee over time.

The new swing is different in almost every way. So, when the new swing worked, he started with birdies. When it started going wrong....

Here's what happened to the swing in Tiger's own words.

Tiger's comments on shooting 7 over in Day 1

The round of 7 over had started with such promise as Woods birdied three of his first six holes, briefly holding a share of the lead. When he signed his scorecard, though, Woods had posted his highest opening round ever in a major championship.

Asked whether he was more frustrated by the score he shot or where he stood in the process of rebuilding his swing with Sean Foley, Woods didn’t hesitate.

"Both. Both," Woods said. "Because I was 3 under early, and I said, you know what, every shot I hit up to that point were all mechanical thoughts, I put the club in a certain position, and I was doing that and I said, you know what, I’m feeling good. Let’s just let it go. And it cost me the whole round."

Woods said he had a "laundry list" of things to work on before he teed off on Friday. He realized he got away from a more mechanical approach, concentrating on the things he’s been working on with Foley, and old habits began creeping into his swing as the day progressed.

“I thought I was playing well enough that I don’t have to do that,’ Woods said. “I can just go out there and play and let it go and just play by feel and see the shot, hit the shot, feel it and I’m not at that point yet. My motor pattern is getting there, and I start fighting it, and I couldn’t get it back. Obviously it’s tough.’

Consequently, Woods is in danger of missing the cut at a major championship for only the fourth time in his career.

“I’ve been in this process before: I’ve been through it with Butch; I’ve been through it with Hank; and now I’ve been through it with Sean.,” Woods said. “I just thought, this is a major, and you peak for these events. And once you get to a major championship, you just let it fly, let it go.

“And I did and it cost me.”



The key paragraph that jumped out at me were:

"Because I was 3 under early, and I said, you know what, every shot I hit up to that point were all mechanical thoughts, I put the club in a certain position, and I was doing that and I said, you know what, I’m feeling good. Let’s just let it go. And it cost me the whole round."

So, what can we learn from this?

Until the swing changes are internalised, STICK WITH MECHANICAL THOUGHTS. It takes a while before a new change is internalised. If you 'let it go' and 'just swing' before that, the old swing comes back, not the new changes.

If you are making a swing change, you might want to postpone playing on the course for a while until the swing change stabilises. Going to the course puts your swing under pressure, and the old swing always comes back. And when that happens, it gets stronger and harder to change.

What do you guys think? Would be interesting to hear your experience in this area.
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:14 am

ok...I guess I will be the odd ball.

But I think he change his swing to pro long his career....coz his old swing no matter how good is only for his physical state as of then.
In fact, I am supportive of his change...coz he really can afford to make the change ..ie no need to worry about money, tour card etc.

as to whether he takes it on the course or not...that is tough to call coz, he had commitments and also bloody PGA tourey is every week......if he play to my schedule..which is around once a month, then no problem

I change my swing depending on which part of my back is aching on that day...so I kinda able to relate to TW... cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:16 am

swing change sounds so glorious

for most of us is not swing change it's just a swing FIX Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:25 am

Lee36328 wrote:
I observed that Tiger did well initially in Day 1 for the first few holes, and then the old swing seemed to come back, mixed up with the new swing.

That's why I've always felt it is so important to get the swing right in the and then stick with it.

Tiger had a swing which worked spectacularly for many years, albeit he often missed from the fairways but the misses were playable, and with some minor adjustments through the years, the swing was good for 14 majors. However that swing simply destroyed the left knee over time.

The new swing is different in almost every way. So, when the new swing worked, he started with birdies. When it started going wrong....

Here's what happened to the swing in Tiger's own words.

Tiger's comments on shooting 7 over in Day 1

The round of 7 over had started with such promise as Woods birdied three of his first six holes, briefly holding a share of the lead. When he signed his scorecard, though, Woods had posted his highest opening round ever in a major championship.

Asked whether he was more frustrated by the score he shot or where he stood in the process of rebuilding his swing with Sean Foley, Woods didn’t hesitate.

"Both. Both," Woods said. "Because I was 3 under early, and I said, you know what, every shot I hit up to that point were all mechanical thoughts, I put the club in a certain position, and I was doing that and I said, you know what, I’m feeling good. Let’s just let it go. And it cost me the whole round."

Woods said he had a "laundry list" of things to work on before he teed off on Friday. He realized he got away from a more mechanical approach, concentrating on the things he’s been working on with Foley, and old habits began creeping into his swing as the day progressed.

“I thought I was playing well enough that I don’t have to do that,’ Woods said. “I can just go out there and play and let it go and just play by feel and see the shot, hit the shot, feel it and I’m not at that point yet. My motor pattern is getting there, and I start fighting it, and I couldn’t get it back. Obviously it’s tough.’

Consequently, Woods is in danger of missing the cut at a major championship for only the fourth time in his career.

“I’ve been in this process before: I’ve been through it with Butch; I’ve been through it with Hank; and now I’ve been through it with Sean.,” Woods said. “I just thought, this is a major, and you peak for these events. And once you get to a major championship, you just let it fly, let it go.

“And I did and it cost me.”



The key paragraph that jumped out at me were:

"Because I was 3 under early, and I said, you know what, every shot I hit up to that point were all mechanical thoughts, I put the club in a certain position, and I was doing that and I said, you know what, I’m feeling good. Let’s just let it go. And it cost me the whole round."

So, what can we learn from this?

Until the swing changes are internalised, STICK WITH MECHANICAL THOUGHTS. It takes a while before a new change is internalised. If you 'let it go' and 'just swing' before that, the old swing comes back, not the new changes.

If you are making a swing change, you might want to postpone playing on the course for a while until the swing change stabilises. Going to the course puts your swing under pressure, and the old swing always comes back. And when that happens, it gets stronger and harder to change.

What do you guys think? Would be interesting to hear your experience in this area.

well said, lee

it is indeed very tough to have a swing change especially the old swing had been with TW for so many years and had win him so many major event...

that could means it's gonna take a lot more time to erase off the old muscle memory and plant in the new one before TW can let his 'Feels' take over..that is one mistake he has make that cost him his 1st round. However, i also tend to have the feeling that his ego had lead him to 'let it go' and 'just swing'.

I saw a few of his bunker save, that it was very well executed, manage to put the ball close to the pin....

I sincerely hope that he can do well for the next round and NOT miss the cut anymore...really hope to see him play the final...
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:28 am

Duval_S wrote:
ok...I guess I will be the odd ball.

But I think he change his swing to pro long his career....coz his old swing no matter how good is only for his physical state as of then.
In fact, I am supportive of his change...coz he really can afford to make the change ..ie no need to worry about money, tour card etc.

as to whether he takes it on the course or not...that is tough to call coz, he had commitments and also bloody PGA tourey is every week......if he play to my schedule..which is around once a month, then no problem

I change my swing depending on which part of my back is aching on that day...so I kinda able to relate to TW... cheers

No no, I agree with your point, he had to make a change to prolong his career. The old swings were good (before and under Butch, and under Haney) were good enough for 14 majors. But it destroyed his knee.

I am asking what's been the collective experience out there among ourselves when we try to make a swing change.

I had to force myself to stop playing while I was fixing up my swing because each time I played, under the gun (some bets riding on the line, etc), the old swing flaws always came back.

What about you guys?
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:28 am

pushslice wrote:
swing change sounds so glorious

for most of us is not swing change it's just a swing FIX Laughing

Same thing la bro, just slightly different scale. Smile
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:29 am

golf_snowman wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
I observed that Tiger did well initially in Day 1 for the first few holes, and then the old swing seemed to come back, mixed up with the new swing.

That's why I've always felt it is so important to get the swing right in the and then stick with it.

Tiger had a swing which worked spectacularly for many years, albeit he often missed from the fairways but the misses were playable, and with some minor adjustments through the years, the swing was good for 14 majors. However that swing simply destroyed the left knee over time.

The new swing is different in almost every way. So, when the new swing worked, he started with birdies. When it started going wrong....

Here's what happened to the swing in Tiger's own words.

Tiger's comments on shooting 7 over in Day 1

The round of 7 over had started with such promise as Woods birdied three of his first six holes, briefly holding a share of the lead. When he signed his scorecard, though, Woods had posted his highest opening round ever in a major championship.

Asked whether he was more frustrated by the score he shot or where he stood in the process of rebuilding his swing with Sean Foley, Woods didn’t hesitate.

"Both. Both," Woods said. "Because I was 3 under early, and I said, you know what, every shot I hit up to that point were all mechanical thoughts, I put the club in a certain position, and I was doing that and I said, you know what, I’m feeling good. Let’s just let it go. And it cost me the whole round."

Woods said he had a "laundry list" of things to work on before he teed off on Friday. He realized he got away from a more mechanical approach, concentrating on the things he’s been working on with Foley, and old habits began creeping into his swing as the day progressed.

“I thought I was playing well enough that I don’t have to do that,’ Woods said. “I can just go out there and play and let it go and just play by feel and see the shot, hit the shot, feel it and I’m not at that point yet. My motor pattern is getting there, and I start fighting it, and I couldn’t get it back. Obviously it’s tough.’

Consequently, Woods is in danger of missing the cut at a major championship for only the fourth time in his career.

“I’ve been in this process before: I’ve been through it with Butch; I’ve been through it with Hank; and now I’ve been through it with Sean.,” Woods said. “I just thought, this is a major, and you peak for these events. And once you get to a major championship, you just let it fly, let it go.

“And I did and it cost me.”



The key paragraph that jumped out at me were:

"Because I was 3 under early, and I said, you know what, every shot I hit up to that point were all mechanical thoughts, I put the club in a certain position, and I was doing that and I said, you know what, I’m feeling good. Let’s just let it go. And it cost me the whole round."

So, what can we learn from this?

Until the swing changes are internalised, STICK WITH MECHANICAL THOUGHTS. It takes a while before a new change is internalised. If you 'let it go' and 'just swing' before that, the old swing comes back, not the new changes.

If you are making a swing change, you might want to postpone playing on the course for a while until the swing change stabilises. Going to the course puts your swing under pressure, and the old swing always comes back. And when that happens, it gets stronger and harder to change.

What do you guys think? Would be interesting to hear your experience in this area.

well said, lee

it is indeed very tough to have a swing change especially the old swing had been with TW for so many years and had win him so many major event...

that could means it's gonna take a lot more time to erase off the old muscle memory and plant in the new one before TW can let his 'Feels' take over..that is one mistake he has make that cost him his 1st round. However, i also tend to have the feeling that his ego had lead him to 'let it go' and 'just swing'.

I saw a few of his bunker save, that it was very well executed, manage to put the ball close to the pin....

I sincerely hope that he can do well for the next round and NOT miss the cut anymore...really hope to see him play the final...

What about you bro? Have you made a swing change before, and how long did it take to stick?
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:35 am

Lee36328 wrote:

What about you bro? Have you made a swing change before, and how long did it take to stick?

me is more like a swing fix, like what PS mentioned....haha !!!

my current coach manage to make my swing more on plane with the new swing..errr...i mean new fix...haha !!!

it has been about 2 months, trust me bro, from time to time, the old problem will still quietly creep back to me and I always have to go back to the drills that my coach had instructed me....

it's tough, even though it's only a swing fix...just image a swing change...and somemore on TW...even tougher !!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:46 am

mine has been a work in progress every year. I go to coaches etc but the natural tendencies that I got from the beginning are very hard to change, its like my signature

1. i swing outside in and too steep
2. my wrist do not release much
3. I sway back and forth
4. i have a slow tempo, I cant seem to crank it another gear by trying harder

my two mechanical thoughts this year:

- I want to flatten my plane and try to become less of a digger. I do that by keeping my right elbow tucked to my body thruout back swing and down

- I also tried to reduce sway by making sure my right knee stays flexed and firm on my way back. It feels tight and tiring if you turn full and holding that knee. (I used to follow shawn clement and turn back full)

the rest I just dont think too much.

Note: maybe the tour striker training aid can help. Gonna get myself one Very Happy






Last edited by pushslice on Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:52 am

my current swing thought :

1. Keep it flat
2. head stay low ( i have the tendency to move my body up and down)
3. Keep club face at square after impact as long as possible

if i can do that, i can do a mini draw, and it's proven only when my coach is around....when he is not around...then....errr....haha !!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:38 am

Interesting inputs.

In my case, when I do play, the first few shots typically will go haywire.

I read the ball flight and figure out my swing tendency for the day. Then I work out 1 compound swing thought that fixes the ball flight, and play with that thought. By compound swing thought I mean several smaller swing thoughts merged into one.

I find toward the last few holes, the tendency may change again. To guard against that, after every shot, I read the ball flight to determine if any further adjustment is necessary, factoring also the dropping energy level toward the end of the round.

When I 'let it go and just swing', it's always spectacular, 50% spectacularly good, 50% spectacularly disastrous, depending on which swing turns up.
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:44 am

Lee36328 wrote:
Interesting inputs.

In my case, when I do play, the first few shots typically will go haywire.

I read the ball flight and figure out my swing tendency for the day. Then I work out 1 compound swing thought that fixes the ball flight, and play with that thought. By compound swing thought I mean several smaller swing thoughts merged into one.

I find toward the last few holes, the tendency may change again. To guard against that, after every shot, I read the ball flight to determine if any further adjustment is necessary, factoring also the dropping energy level toward the end of the round.

When I 'let it go and just swing', it's always spectacular, 50% spectacularly good, 50% spectacularly disastrous, depending on which swing turns up.

Forgot to add; if the swing change is new, I rely on a mechanical swing key as a swing thought, usually in the takeaway, to ensure I'm on the right track.

By the time I reach the top of the backswing, the feel has got to be in place because there's no time to mechanically fix anything after that.

Interesting comments, keep them coming.
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:44 am

I only have 1 swing thought.......slow the f*** down.....it's all about tempo / timing for me...
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:47 am

golfool2009 wrote:
I only have 1 swing thought.......slow the f*** down.....it's all about tempo / timing for me...



that why we have 2 kids..... flower

see u next thurs....
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:54 am

Lee36328 wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
Interesting inputs.

In my case, when I do play, the first few shots typically will go haywire.

I read the ball flight and figure out my swing tendency for the day. Then I work out 1 compound swing thought that fixes the ball flight, and play with that thought. By compound swing thought I mean several smaller swing thoughts merged into one.

I find toward the last few holes, the tendency may change again. To guard against that, after every shot, I read the ball flight to determine if any further adjustment is necessary, factoring also the dropping energy level toward the end of the round.

When I 'let it go and just swing', it's always spectacular, 50% spectacularly good, 50% spectacularly disastrous, depending on which swing turns up.

Forgot to add; if the swing change is new, I rely on a mechanical swing key as a swing thought, usually in the takeaway, to ensure I'm on the right track.

By the time I reach the top of the backswing, the feel has got to be in place because there's no time to mechanically fix anything after that.

Interesting comments, keep them coming.

swing thought and check point....this is what i have in mind

swing thought to understand and imagin what swing you want to execute
check point is to ensure that you are executing your swing thought

i once saw a small interview with AK and he mentioned about his check point on driver shot, and most of them are during takeaway, at downswing, there is no way we can make any adjustment
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:12 am

disclaimer: I am not a pro, coach or scratch golfer.

although i don't do swing changes, and my swing changes from swing to swing, its curious to know that the approach Tiger takes is mechanical then to instinct.

for myself and i guess most golfers, the approach would be to go from instinct to mechnical..
why? when i play the first few holes, and things go wrong like it always does, i try to fix it by doing some key swing thoughts that have worked before. but then it always screws up after that and i'm left with just trying to hit the damn ball.

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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:19 am

For me, when i let go and not think too much, i play better. The first few holes in the game always good for me. But as i get into the round and start to think abt the mistakes i made in the previous holes and get more mechanical, i just go down the hill.
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:47 am

golfool2009 wrote:
I only have 1 swing thought.......slow the f*** down.....it's all about tempo / timing for me...

Actually, it depends.

If I am playing chipmunk, the Thot is 'massage'!
lol!

Otherwise, seriously, I try to think of slow up and fast down.
And at the back of my mind, I will be thinking, "2 palms moving the club up and when coming down, right palm stronger."
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:51 am

Usually what I :try" to do, based on coach recommendation

Practice swing - think only of one swing thought (mine is mechanic)
Setup - alignment and setup (mechanics) and see target (instinct)
Execution - think only target (instinct)

But it is a lot easier than done.
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:07 pm

OK...this mite cause some folks who had the chance to witness my swing to laugh till pants drop......

the change which I am making is to further shorten my back swing !!!!


yes....for those who seen my swing....I guess tears fm over laughter coming out fm your eyes.....my already half swing is going to be shorten more

reason....I need to solve my reverse pivot and keep my swing plan....

Due to my lack of discipline in practising....I am using my monthly game to test this out...it works on par 3...but not very well on fairway....but luckily I hv a lot of patience....
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:41 pm

When playing under pressure especially if I am betting with my playing partners, I always believe FEEL and natural swing thought is much more effective. Too much mechanical swing thoughts may do more harm than good for a social golfer like me who does not put in quality hours of practises ... Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:44 pm

Im undergoing a rather drastic swing change , and have reached a stage where i swing rather well on the range ... However, on the course, as i get deeper into the round i regress to my old swing, and suffer the consequence. I then remind myself what it is i was originally trying to do, and take a few slow and deliberate practice swings .. Taking note of key positions in my club path .. Once i am comfortable with my swing again, i step up and hit the ball

I have noticed that with each round of golf i am managing to last progressively longer with my new swing intact ..

So one may stay away from the course initially to practice their new swing ... They must eventually hit the course , as the range can never simulate the real thing!

I can feel tigers pain ... Thank God neither of us depend on golf for our livelihood!! Beer
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:50 pm

Just came back from the range. The swing keys that worked last time seemed to stop working. Had to revisit some of the recent few swing keys until I assembled a set that finally worked - sorta like a restaurant's menu, but instead of soup of the day we got swing key of the day.

This used to puzzle me until I realized, my body's tendency each time is different from the last. So today for instance, because i rested a couple of days, the right side was too strong and I kept hitting baby hooks. Had to deliberately force the left side to power up before the right balance was achieved.

I bet tomorrow, the left side will be too flexible and I'll hit pushes, until I balance the two sides again. Sigh!
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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:15 pm

beside making swing changes, the constant equipment changes also affects my game.

Nowadays the lack of free time to get out to the range has made me just take the simpler approach to the game and to my swing. whatever works most consistently on the day of the game, i just play with that, don't try to force or do anything funny. Most important is check my setup and make sure i am always feeling confident before making my swing.

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PostSubject: Re: Making A Swing Change - Learning From Tiger   Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:04 am

For those who are interested in whacking the ball hard hard and are not so concern about the results (i.e. slice, hook, top, etc), one swing thought just before I take the shot has always worked for me....

Picture my boss's face on the golf ball

The mechanics of the swing will just come naturally after that. For those who are interested in a swing change or thought change, this might be an alternative to make your game more fun (i.e. bad scores, but at least you get to whack your boss virtually)
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