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 Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker

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Slicer51
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PostSubject: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:12 pm

Hi pro,

I would like seek help to understand how the golf rule apply to my situation as below;

1) 1st of all, no local rules mention whether the distance marker is moveable or immovable object in this course I played.

- What happened was, on my last Sunday round. I drove my tee shot slightly off the right side fairway near a distance maker.

- when I arrived at the ball and realized that the distance marker is obstructing my stance to hit toward the green, unless i use left hand to swing ( I am a right hand player )

- Usually I removed the distance marker and play on ( as long as the marker can be remove and it become an moveable obstruction.

- However, this time this marker is immovable.

Can i have a free relief and drop my ball a club length not near to the pin ?

I read the rule 24-1 and -2 on movable and immovable obstruction but am just to silly to understand them.

Please help. Thanks
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mengteck71
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:27 pm

What about Lamp Post and Electrical Box?
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4dtoto
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:31 pm

I tot lamp post and electrical Box is for target aiming to bounce the ball onto the green, like chipmunk..hehehe..sorry Ot abit...

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golfool2009
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:32 pm

Good questions cause i also want to know....my interpretation of the rules has always been that you can take relief if the distance markers/lamp posts/generators interferes with your swing and/or stance....however, you can't get relief if it's in your intended flight path (esp. for lamp posts and electrical boxes)....

for OB stakes, I don't think you can move it nor obtain relief....and don't ask me why this is different...i just remember reading it somewhere....


Last edited by golfool2009 on Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mengteck71
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:33 pm

what if lamppost and electrical box interfere ur stance or swing?
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kian
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:39 pm

If anyone is familiar for kranji hole 12 short par 4, can I get relief if my ball lands directly under the wooden stick barrers behind the green? My ball landed just before the hazard red line but under the wooden railing.
Can I get a free relief? But I also dono where to drop...
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Begbie
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:45 pm

I recalled one Asian tourney, where tongchai jaidee repeatedly kept hitting the lampost again and again at the end of the hole, he came out with a bogey.

Apparently, the local rule allow for you to put back the ball at the original position if it hits lampost, power box etc..

So thats what TJ did, he kept hitting till he got his ball out...
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golfool2009
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:52 pm

Begbie wrote:
I recalled one Asian tourney, where tongchai jaidee repeatedly kept hitting the lampost again and again at the end of the hole, he came out with a bogey.

Apparently, the local rule allow for you to put back the ball at the original position if it hits lampost, power box etc..

So thats what TJ did, he kept hitting till he got his ball out...

I remember that too but TJ was allowed to do that because of a local rule....
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:08 pm

Yes, if the post cannot be moved, then you get free relief.

Same with the Power poles and electrical boxes.

Remember you get your "nearest point of relief" first, then you take your 1 clublength.
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freedrop
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:49 pm

golfool2009 wrote:
Good questions cause i also want to know....my interpretation of the rules has always been that you can take relief if the distance markers/lamp posts/generators interferes with your swing and/or stance....however, you can't get relief if it's in your intended flight path (esp. for lamp posts and electrical boxes)....

for OB stakes, I don't think you can move it nor obtain relief....and don't ask me why this is different...i just remember reading it somewhere....

You are right here about distance markers/lamp posts/electric boxes/sprinkler heads. These are either movable or immovable man-made obstuctions and you are entitled to reliefs. Local rules usually do not explicitly cover these because they are covered in rule books.

Concrete drains are covered by local rules, so in some courses, you get reliefs, while in others, you don't. If there are red stakes around the drains, obviously they are hazards, and usual penalty apply.

You are also right about OB stakes, which are part of the course.

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poresia
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:00 pm

i remember a lady golfer at 2011 Evian Masters have to re-tee her tee shot bcos the ball hit the electrical cable hanging in front and above the tee box in one of the par 3.
think that is quite similar to Thongchai case but not sure if that is local rule or not.
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freedrop
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:20 pm

poresia wrote:
i remember a lady golfer at 2011 Evian Masters have to re-tee her tee shot bcos the ball hit the electrical cable hanging in front and above the tee box in one of the par 3.
think that is quite similar to Thongchai case but not sure if that is local rule or not.

Decision 33-8/13 says No, you cannot re-tee if your ball hit an overhead power cable.

But Decision 33-8/13 also provides Local Rules Committee a way out, that local rules can require a player to replay the stroke with no penalty. This local rule is present in all the overhead cable cases I have come across so far. Quite common in USA, and I have seen once in Malaysia.

So looks like Evian Mastsers case is a locla rule.
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Slicer51
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:42 pm

Okay, that mean that immovable distant marker, lamp post, electric box. We are allow to have free relief as they are man made.

If tree or brushes (through the green) .. Is natural immovable, no free relief without penalty. Of course OB stick is immovable as per the rule.

Am I correct Sirs ?
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:44 pm

Slicer51 wrote:
Okay, that mean that immovable distant marker, lamp post, electric box. We are allow to have free relief as they are man made.

If tree or brushes (through the green) .. Is natural immovable, no free relief without penalty. Of course OB stick is immovable as per the rule.

Am I correct Sirs ?

But remember, Hazard sticks (red or yellow) are not consider removable.
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freedrop
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:56 pm

duffader wrote:
Slicer51 wrote:
Okay, that mean that immovable distant marker, lamp post, electric box. We are allow to have free relief as they are man made.

If tree or brushes (through the green) .. Is natural immovable, no free relief without penalty. Of course OB stick is immovable as per the rule.

Am I correct Sirs ?

But remember, Hazard sticks (red or yellow) are not consider removable.


Not true.

Hazard stakes CAN be either movable or immovable. Somtimes this is stated in Local Rules, sometimes it's not. Most hazard stakes are easily removed. In some (very few) courses, hazard stakes are planted firmly, and are not movable.

Where hazard stakes are movable, you can move the stakes before you play the shot, EVEN THOUGH your ball is inside the hazard. Most people do not know this. You can't ground the club of course.

Where hazard stakes are immovable, you are entitled to relief, but ONLY IF your ball is outside the harzard. This is because ball in hazard must be played as it lies, or declared unplayable.










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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:02 pm

I thought when its in the hazard, you play at it lies?
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JGoh
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:30 pm

Slicer51 wrote:
Okay.....

If tree or brushes (through the green) .. Is natural immovable, no free relief without penalty...

Am I correct Sirs ?

Many golf courses mark young trees / bushes and flower beds with coloured stakes and allow relief without penalty as well.. Some courses provide relief by stating as local rules on the scorecards, without marking the young tress/bushes/ flower beds, so be wise to read the back of the score cards.. Provision of relieve from "open drains", and not "covered drains", usually also stated at the back of scorecards.. 3c
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klt8144
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:44 pm

yo...yesterday at Kranji H2... my buddy tried to retrieve the ball from the bunker, he hits too hard and the ball get embedded deep inside the wall o f the bunker, apparently cannot see the ball unless dig out some of the grass and soil.. so how ? dig out the ball and let it drop into the bunker agai? any penalty? my other friend say ok leh..

at the same time due to the heavy rain,.. the bunker have many deep earthworms path created by the rain water,..the ball landed in the path... is there free lift?

what are the rules for these? pls enlighten...
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kian
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:09 pm

klt8144 wrote:
yo...yesterday at Kranji H2... my buddy tried to retrieve the ball from the bunker, he hits too hard and the ball get embedded deep inside the wall o f the bunker, apparently cannot see the ball unless dig out some of the grass and soil.. so how ? dig out the ball and let it drop into the bunker agai? any penalty? my other friend say ok leh..

at the same time due to the heavy rain,.. the bunker have many deep earthworms path created by the rain water,..the ball landed in the path... is there free lift?

what are the rules for these? pls enlighten...

how can u ascertain those r "paths" created by earthworms??? tongue

i tink if embedded ball can take out but must drop inside the bunker w/o penalty. pls correct me if wrong. but if im playing vegas, i will him he needs to declare lost ball! santa



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4dtoto
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:11 pm

My ball enbedded in the side of the bunker before, i was not allow to remove and drop but to smash it out.
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golfool2009
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:13 pm

klt8144 wrote:
yo...yesterday at Kranji H2... my buddy tried to retrieve the ball from the bunker, he hits too hard and the ball get embedded deep inside the wall o f the bunker, apparently cannot see the ball unless dig out some of the grass and soil.. so how ? dig out the ball and let it drop into the bunker agai? any penalty? my other friend say ok leh..

at the same time due to the heavy rain,.. the bunker have many deep earthworms path created by the rain water,..the ball landed in the path... is there free lift?

what are the rules for these? pls enlighten...

For the first scenario, you can dig out the ball only for the purposes of identifying it...then you must replace it ...seeing as how he can't hit it after replacing it, he can drop it with a one stroke penalty....in the bunker...

for the second, there shouldn't be a free lift unless marked as GUR....

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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:14 pm

kian wrote:
klt8144 wrote:
yo...yesterday at Kranji H2... my buddy tried to retrieve the ball from the bunker, he hits too hard and the ball get embedded deep inside the wall o f the bunker, apparently cannot see the ball unless dig out some of the grass and soil.. so how ? dig out the ball and let it drop into the bunker agai? any penalty? my other friend say ok leh..

at the same time due to the heavy rain,.. the bunker have many deep earthworms path created by the rain water,..the ball landed in the path... is there free lift?

what are the rules for these? pls enlighten...

how can u ascertain those r "paths" created by earthworms??? tongue

i tink if embedded ball can take out but must drop inside the bunker w/o penalty. pls correct me if wrong. but if im playing vegas, i will him he needs to declare lost ball! santa





Bunkers, embedded, plays at it lies. You can take a drop with one stroke penalty and the ball still has to be in the bunker. (One club length)
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:23 pm

What about ball landed on the STEEP slope of the bunker? Happened to me once. Couldn't even stand properly (as the sand was really soft).

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JGoh
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:57 pm

mloy wrote:
What about ball landed on the STEEP slope of the bunker? Happened to me once. Couldn't even stand properly (as the sand was really soft).

Same - you can declare the ball unplayable by taking a drop, with penalty of one stroke, one club length, not nearer the green. If ball in bunker, must drop in bunker. If ball not in bunker then drop within one club length not nearer the green. If not in bunker, ball dropped into bunker, can redrop, and place if roll into bunker second time. 3c
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golfool2009
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PostSubject: Re: Re: immovable obstruction : distant marker   Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:23 pm

Check out this video for relief from the cartpath. It's very interesting as sometimes, it's just too bad, your only relief puts you in a worse situation.


www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2010-09/video-rule-cartpath-drop
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