Golf Republic Forum - Singapore's most active golfing forum.
 
HomeFAQCalendarRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
duffader
Hall of Fame Golfer
Hall of Fame Golfer


Posts : 5599
Join date : 2010-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:32 pm

Lee36328 wrote:
duffader wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
I agree, sometimes magazines can be over-sensationalist.

So. here's the link of the professor who did the study, at Columbia University.

http://www.columbia.edu/~mnb2/broadie/research_golf.html
Professor? GO read the book "The Golfing Machine".... I think it will enhance your theory better!

I really hope all this researchers are like you.. "play like how they say"

Homer Kelley with his accumulators, line of approach, arc of approach, and the 24 components of a swing has indeed done one of the most complete if not THE most complete catalogue of all the variations of the swing.

Where he falls a bit short, in my modest opinion, is his relatively shallow study of the pivot.

It is a pity Trackman wasn't available in his day, or else imagine what else he could have produced.

Just wish the guy could write in a more accessible style of prose though. Laughing Laughing Laughing

But he is not a good golfer right?
Back to top Go down
Duval_S
Hall of Fame Golfer
Hall of Fame Golfer


Posts : 8185
Join date : 2009-06-19

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:35 pm

all these are making me luv my 52s more and more



Back to top Go down
Technospaz
Advisor
Advisor


Posts : 15650
Join date : 2009-06-18
Age : 41
Location : Typically OOB

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:41 pm

The more I play (which ain't much), the more I believe it's 90% red Indian, 10% arrow.

_________________
Clearing my Storeroom of golfing goodies. Please help support Smile

"A ball will always come to rest halfway down a hill, unless there is sand or water at the bottom." Henry Beard
Back to top Go down
Duval_S
Hall of Fame Golfer
Hall of Fame Golfer


Posts : 8185
Join date : 2009-06-19

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:47 pm

Quote :
Technospaz wrote:
The more I play (which ain't much), the more I believe it's 90% red Indian, 10% arrow.


i am with you on this......and ..thats why I play less



just like Shaggy's song ' It wasnt me '


I am currently of the view its 50/50
Back to top Go down
gomjgo
Junior Golfer
Junior Golfer


Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-01-21

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:06 pm

duffader wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
duffader wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
I agree, sometimes magazines can be over-sensationalist.

So. here's the link of the professor who did the study, at Columbia University.

http://www.columbia.edu/~mnb2/broadie/research_golf.html
Professor? GO read the book "The Golfing Machine".... I think it will enhance your theory better!

I really hope all this researchers are like you.. "play like how they say"

Homer Kelley with his accumulators, line of approach, arc of approach, and the 24 components of a swing has indeed done one of the most complete if not THE most complete catalogue of all the variations of the swing.

Where he falls a bit short, in my modest opinion, is his relatively shallow study of the pivot.

It is a pity Trackman wasn't available in his day, or else imagine what else he could have produced.

Just wish the guy could write in a more accessible style of prose though. Laughing Laughing Laughing

But he is not a good golfer right?

The problem with golf is 80% practical and 20% theory. If theory carry more weight , LCB will be first and MM will be last or near last on the 2010 Order of Merits... Sad
Back to top Go down
Lee36328
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:18 pm

dmateo wrote:
sound similar. I switch to mp68 and just recently started to play around 80's....

I agree on the point of blade gives you more feedback and you tends to be more UNforgiving to your self even when the result is ok since you know it was slightly top of duff etc. ...

This point hit the nail on the head.

When the shot was slightly off, not enough to affect the ball flight, which is still good, but enough to affect how it feels, you KNOW, oh, that was slightly topped, or to the toe, etc. And you correct the next swing before the problem becomes bigger.

Which keeps the variances within a narrow range.

Which is why you can shoot in the 80's despite a driver that goes only 200m. Your approach shots must be pretty sharp with the MP68s.

According to that research from Columbia university listed above, the length of the driver will place an upper limit on your score, and it sounds like you are close to it.

So, just by finding a way to hit the driver say 10-15% longer, your scores will soon start to tumble.

Congrats on choosing the MP68 - I was eyeing them too, before deciding on the Miuras. Well done with your progress using them.


Back to top Go down
pushslice
Caddy
Caddy


Posts : 5606
Join date : 2009-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 8:59 pm

Bro, so how exactly do you self fix your swing after you top, thin, toed or heeled a shot? How do you know what caused it?

This skill even the pros will pay for.

Imagine Jason dufner, he suddenly lost his swing in the last 3 holes. If he had this self fix skill, he could have won PGA Liao...or Tiger. He played well first three holes, then lost it and never recover.

Here's my story, I bought a silicone belt from fellow bro here. After I wore it, I shaved 20 strokes off my score at one course I never played well before. Used same clubs, same swing, same routine, same ball (well different buggy mate). until today I think that belt is magic Laughing

At 20 bucks, this fragrant belt gives more bang for the buck than the sexy miuras hehehehe
Back to top Go down
jaketang
Incredibly Active Golfer
Incredibly Active Golfer


Posts : 2648
Join date : 2009-06-20
Age : 41
Location : East

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:55 pm

i think end of the day is down to one thing.... confidence...
if u have it, u play well.
but at any 1 time u have any doubts, tht's it...all gone..

so be it clubs, belts, thoughts, lesson, etc.... anything tht gives u confidence, u will play well or better than usual....

of course different lvl of golfer have different expectation and different perception of playing well...

my 2 cents......
Back to top Go down
jwing
Junior Golfer
Junior Golfer


Posts : 144
Join date : 2009-10-24
Location : NE

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:27 pm

wow.... how to have this kind of practising hours.... cheers cheers
Back to top Go down
slinger
Hall of Fame Golfer
Hall of Fame Golfer


Posts : 5692
Join date : 2009-06-19
Age : 47
Location : Wild Wild West

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:34 pm

jwing wrote:
wow.... how to have this kind of practising hours.... cheers cheers


dun have too much s e x lor.....

soli, cant help to rub it in......

Back to top Go down
duffader
Hall of Fame Golfer
Hall of Fame Golfer


Posts : 5599
Join date : 2010-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:07 pm

I think KL ASKs much better off than the ASKs we know inside here... they dun have such luxury to spend so much time on the range.

Anyway, would really like to have a game with you Lee.... where u normally play in KL?
Back to top Go down
gomjgo
Junior Golfer
Junior Golfer


Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-01-21

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:44 pm

pushslice wrote:
Bro, so how exactly do you self fix your swing after you top, thin, toed or heeled a shot? How do you know what caused it?

This skill even the pros will pay for.

Imagine Jason dufner, he suddenly lost his swing in the last 3 holes. If he had this self fix skill, he could have won PGA Liao...or Tiger. He played well first three holes, then lost it and never recover.

Here's my story, I bought a silicone belt from fellow bro here. After I wore it, I shaved 20 strokes off my score at one course I never played well before. Used same clubs, same swing, same routine, same ball (well different buggy mate). until today I think that belt is magic Laughing

At 20 bucks, this fragrant belt gives more bang for the buck than the sexy miuras hehehehe

Wow, your magic belt cost $20 shave 20 strokes, if I offer to buy from you $30, will I shave 30 strokes?
Back to top Go down
gomjgo
Junior Golfer
Junior Golfer


Posts : 107
Join date : 2010-01-21

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:46 pm

jaketang wrote:
i think end of the day is down to one thing.... confidence...
if u have it, u play well.
but at any 1 time u have any doubts, tht's it...all gone..

so be it clubs, belts, thoughts, lesson, etc.... anything tht gives u confidence, u will play well or better than usual....

of course different lvl of golfer have different expectation and different perception of playing well...

my 2 cents......

Confidence... cheers

When Tiger had it before the scandal, no one stand near. Now that it is gone, he loses his game..
Back to top Go down
duffader
Hall of Fame Golfer
Hall of Fame Golfer


Posts : 5599
Join date : 2010-01-28

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:03 am

So lee, where u normally play in KL???
Back to top Go down
dmateo
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1103
Join date : 2010-09-19
Location : Singapore

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:04 am

tiger's problem is different lah. Look at how fit he is and some rumour says that he is using hormon. As you know male hormon will have also differnt impact on a special muscle that is unique only to man.

In the old good days he can cool this muscle down by getting lots of girl to come on tour with him. Now that the girls are gone, this is no longer possible.

It's therefore only rational that he can't play golf well since he will not be able to setup and swing naturally anymore.

I think now that he is single, he should just get as many girl as he wants and get back to his old self....

Back to top Go down
Lee36328
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:35 am

pushslice wrote:
Bro, so how exactly do you self fix your swing after you top, thin, toed or heeled a shot? How do you know what caused it?

This skill even the pros will pay for.

Imagine Jason dufner, he suddenly lost his swing in the last 3 holes. If he had this self fix skill, he could have won PGA Liao...or Tiger. He played well first three holes, then lost it and never recover.

Here's my story, I bought a silicone belt from fellow bro here. After I wore it, I shaved 20 strokes off my score at one course I never played well before. Used same clubs, same swing, same routine, same ball (well different buggy mate). until today I think that belt is magic Laughing

At 20 bucks, this fragrant belt gives more bang for the buck than the sexy miuras hehehehe

Ha ha, bro, if the 20 bucks belts work for me, I would buy a dozen from you at 40 bucks. Saves me all those hours in the bunker under the HOT sun. Man, I have a tan like a construction worker.

"so how exactly do you self fix your swing after you top, thin, toed or heeled a shot? How do you know what caused it?"

Someone said theory does not help, nothing can take the place of practical experience, so I am glad you brought up this question. This is EXACTLY where theory helps.

If we have complete and sound swing theory, and built our swing according to it, then when we top the ball, or hit it fat, we know exactly what caused it and therefore how to remedy it. Of course, practice at the range also helps.

When I start to top, I know what to do to fix it because I have encountered topping at the range before and found a fix for it. The same goes for any other type of mishits - if I've fixed it on the range before, I know what to do.

This is why I used to hit balls at the range for 4-5 hours. The first two hours would usually be fantastic. I would be hitting the balls like superman. Boom! Boom! All the muscles are fresh, and even poor swing form can be rescued (because the body is very intelligent) and all shots look great.

That's not the goal of my practice.

After about 2 hours, and 200-300 balls, my muscles start to fatigue.

NOW comes the TRUE practice session. I want to know how my swing reacts or deteriorates as the swing muscles get tired. Any swing flaws will show itself clearly.

If you like to sway, for example, your left hip flexor will fatigue and shut down first. And you'll start slicing or pulling because you are now coming over the top.

The more flaws in my swing, the faster it deteriorates as my coordination suffers and can no longer 'rescue' poor swing form.

Eventually, as you continue to fix your swing, you get to a point where you can hit 400-500 balls with pretty much the same form without much deterioration in ball flight or distance. That's when you know the swing is in good shape.

Along the way, you also learn why you top, duff, push, hook, etc, and how to fix it.

Tiger explained what happened at that game where his swing deteriorated after 3 holes. It's covered in another thread I started here.

http://www.golfrepublic.org/t12641-making-a-swing-change-learning-from-tiger
Back to top Go down
Lee36328
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:38 am

jaketang wrote:
i think end of the day is down to one thing.... confidence...
if u have it, u play well.
but at any 1 time u have any doubts, tht's it...all gone..

so be it clubs, belts, thoughts, lesson, etc.... anything tht gives u confidence, u will play well or better than usual....

of course different lvl of golfer have different expectation and different perception of playing well...

my 2 cents......

Absolutely right. Confidence is key. Trust your swing, and let it execute naturally.

Any second-guessing, and the mind wants to step in last fraction of a second and 'guide' the club to impact. That's it. The swing is GONE as you said.
Back to top Go down
Lee36328
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 1:44 am

duffader wrote:
I think KL ASKs much better off than the ASKs we know inside here... they dun have such luxury to spend so much time on the range.

Anyway, would really like to have a game with you Lee.... where u normally play in KL?

Sorry for the delay in response.

A lot of comments for me to go through, which is GREAT, keep it up guys!

What is ASKs?

Yes, a game would be interesting. I bet we would have a lot to talk about.

I don't have a home club per se. I play wherever the opportunity presents itself, usually friends who invite me to their games. So, Glenmarie, Kota Permai, Bukit Kemuning, Bukit Tinggi, Kinrara, Staffield, etc. My favourite is Glenmarie and Kota Permai, scenic and well-maintained.

Where do you like to play in KL?
Back to top Go down
pushslice
Caddy
Caddy


Posts : 5606
Join date : 2009-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:48 am

Steady la, If the pros have the same confidence in their self mastery of theory as you do, the Butch Harmons, Haneys, Foleys etc won't be so big shit in the PGA tour Razz
Back to top Go down
nicasio
Senior Golfer
Senior Golfer


Posts : 422
Join date : 2009-11-25
Location : KL

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:14 am

Lee,
U from KL? Maybe one day we can meet and have a game coz I'm from KL as well.
Back to top Go down
Golf-mass
Junior Golfer
Junior Golfer


Posts : 122
Join date : 2010-07-09
Age : 47

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:55 am

Mr Lee . U so precise in feel n timing. With fantastic practical disciple , PHD theory . In no time , will see u post cutting further 10 strokes . Wish u to be another APGA pro
Back to top Go down
pushslice
Caddy
Caddy


Posts : 5606
Join date : 2009-12-26

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:04 am

Kj choi and larry nelson took the same route. Armed with nicklaus book and hogan's book and just tens of thousands hours of honing their skills. Never went to golf coach. Caann! Very Happy
Back to top Go down
Lee36328
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:10 am

nicasio wrote:
Lee,
U from KL? Maybe one day we can meet and have a game coz I'm from KL as well.

Hi nicasio,

Yes, I am from KL. Always happy to meet new friends through golf.

Now, I just gotta get my driver to fall in line first....
Back to top Go down
Lee36328
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:22 am

pushslice wrote:
Steady la, If the pros have the same confidence in their self mastery of theory as you do, the Butch Harmons, Haneys, Foleys etc won't be so big shit in the PGA tour Razz

Bro,

The swing is not complicated, how the human brain and the human body learn a complex motor skill is.

BH, HH, SF look after the human body, Bob Rotella and other golf psychologists look after the brain.

To discuss in detail we need to look at brain development.

As the brain grows in a developing child, nature has designed it to prune (cut off) circuits which are not used, making those used stronger. This is because the brain is nutrient-hungry, and maintaining unused pathways would be a waste, an inefficiency rooted out by evolution long ago.

The concept of grammar in language, for example, a complicated mentai exercise requiring some effort from the brain, must be learnt in childhood, or the person as an adult will forever struggle.

Scientists studied the cases of children who were lost in the jungle and grew up in the wild are found as adults and brought back into civilisation. As they tried to teach the rediscovered adult to speak, vocabulary was easiliy picked up, but grammar was impossible. This also explains why I have some very intelligent friends who forever mixes up "he" and "she", using "she" by default for all genders, because they learnt chinese as a child and picked up english much later. And as we know, chinese is gender-neutral when it comes to pronouns. So in my friend's case, his brain has room for only one gender when it comes to pronoun. The circuit to store two genders was never developed, forever cut.

Music, another skill best learnt before a certain age because it takes a lot of brain power.

Before my story also gets lost in the jungle, let me correlate it back to civilisation - golf.

It is said that the brain is most efficient in picking up a complex physical skill like golf if it is learnt before the age of 15. After that, certain unused pathways are pruned forever. Those who learn golf after 15 are using other less-efficient pathways to compensate.

Tiger Woods, greatest player in the world, was excited he could diagnose a poor shot and fix the error that caused it, all in the middle of the round. When did he learn this diagnosis and fixing skill? Last year, after working with SF. I was amazed when I heard him say that. Dude, you mean you don't know your own swing? Then when I think about how the brain learns, I understand why.

Those who learnt by 15 will have a strong sense of FEEL for the swing. They know what feels right and what feels wrong. BUT, if you ask them to explain what they are doing, they will struggle. They won't make very good coaches.

Try this little experiment. Try to explain how to ride a bicycle. Explain how to use the left hand or the right hand to move the handle bar while the feet are pedaling, balancing just the right amount of thrust from the feet with the right amount of steering correction to avoid falling over and keep the bike balanced on two narrow patches of tire. And explain it well enough such that someone who has never rode a bike can read, understand, and ride the bike. It can't be done because it is all FEEL.

For professional golfers, their swings are set for life by age 15. If they try to change it later as adults, they will struggle. Asking Tiger to change his swing is like asking my friend to use "he" and "she" correctly. Both of them will struggle mightily. My friend can manage it if he slows down and thinks before he speaks. You can't do that to a golf swing going 120-130mph, especially under tournament pressure. When my friend gets excited, the entire world goes female again, as everyone becomes a "she".

Enter Butch Harmon, Hank Haney, and Sean Foley. The main skills of these coaches is not to teach a swing change to a skilled golfer. The mechanics of the change? That's the easy part, if you read and practice enough. Even I can tell Tiger what to do about getting stuck. His hips are outracing his hands in the sequence. It's common knowledge to anyone who has a decent understanding of swing theory, no holy cow and no big deal. The hard part is to build a new swing memory strong enough such that the original swing, hardwired in the brain's circuits by age 15, does not come back and overwrite the new swing IN THE MIDDLE OF PERFORMING THE SWING.

I touched on it happening to Tiger here.
i http://www.golfrepublic.org/t12641-making-a-swing-change-learning-from-tiger

If you have two different circuits for two different swings, one hardwired since childhood, grooved with hundreds of thousands of repetitions, thick with myelin, the other newly learnt, there is just no way the new circuit is stronger and faster than the old one.

Under pressure, under the gun, the stress makes the brain think it is under threat, and fight or flight reactions kick in. The brain is then asked to perform a golf swing, flooded with all that adrenaline. It fires the signal to trigger the swing. Both the old and new circuits get the signal. Which one do you think will process the signal faster?

Enter Bob Rotella and his peers. His job is to keep the pros in a relaxed, confident state, to ensure their brains does not perceive any threat, avoiding the triggering of the fight or flight response. But that is a whole different area of discussion.

So, it's not as simple as the term 'self-mastery' implies. We all know how to ride a bike, right? We have the theory down pat right? So, it would be no problem riding a bike with the left and right hands swapped around on the handles, right? Try it. Wink
Back to top Go down
Lee36328
Super Active Golfer
Super Active Golfer


Posts : 1997
Join date : 2011-03-27

PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Fri Aug 19, 2011 10:26 am

Golf-mass wrote:
Mr Lee . U so precise in feel n timing. With fantastic practical disciple , PHD theory . In no time , will see u post cutting further 10 strokes . Wish u to be another APGA pro

Thank you for your kind compliments and good wishes.

If I had picked up this game earlier, much much earlier, perhaps I can go quite far with it.

Unfortunately, I discovered the joys of this wonderful game late, only 2 years plus ago, spent 1 year in the dark with unsuitable coaches, and only recently have come to understand it.

Now, comes the hard part. Executing it consistently, in the course, under the hot sun, bets riding on each hole... The hard part is also the FUN part! Laughing Laughing Laughing
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god   Today at 8:24 am

Back to top Go down
 
Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Shaved 10 strokes from my average score - thank you (hand of) god
» Keeping track of strokes
» Mcdonald's All American Game this Wednesday on the Score!
» Average life of the clutch?
» What is your Average monthly Expenses on Golf games ?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Singapore Golf Forum - Golf Republic :: Golf Academy :: Tips & Tricks-
Jump to:  
Friends of Golf RepublicFriends of Golf RepublicFriends of Golf Republic
Copyright © 2009 Golf Republic. All Rights Reserved.