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 How to get my swing fixed?

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vjian
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PostSubject: How to get my swing fixed?   Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:42 pm

i found that my swing changing everyday because i always try a new move when i get on the range.Sometimes is good but mostly end up bad.zzz...does every new golfer encountered the same issue?another question...when i hit the ball well..straight and long..but after only a day when i get on the range again i swing the same swing but my ball drop in front of me...zzzz...i just cant remember the move that i just did to make the impact feel so good....or its just 'am gong'???after i practice over 200 ball i get the feeling again but after that i come b the nex day everything is gone= =what happen to me...
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Fri Oct 21, 2011 6:55 pm

Hi bro
Sounds like your swing relies on timing, all the planets aligning at the right time for you to hit good shots.
Timing is very difficult to reproduce over and over and keep it from day to day and week to week. You need to find out how your current swing works or doesn't work and then eliminate the move that is causing your bad shots.
Try to build a swing where even if the timing is slightly out, your bad shots will not be so bad.

Post a video if you have one and I can have a look at it. Alternatively come for a free swing analysis

Paul
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:58 am

vjian wrote:
i found that my swing changing everyday because i always try a new move when i get on the range.Sometimes is good but mostly end up bad.zzz...does every new golfer encountered the same issue?another question...when i hit the ball well..straight and long..but after only a day when i get on the range again i swing the same swing but my ball drop in front of me...zzzz...i just cant remember the move that i just did to make the impact feel so good....or its just 'am gong'???after i practice over 200 ball i get the feeling again but after that i come b the nex day everything is gone= =what happen to me...

Does every new golfer encountered the same issue?

Well, watching Luke Donald struggle with his tee off at the Children’s Miracle Network Hospitals Classic last night, I thought, wow, even world no. 1 struggles with his long clubs.

So vjian, it's not just new golfers that struggle.

when i hit the ball well..straight and long..but after only a day when i get on the range again i swing the same swing but my ball drop in front of me. what happen to me...

When you hit the ball well, straight and long, you are making ball-first contact. Most of the energy gets transferred to the ball cleanly.

When the ball drop in front of you, chances are you are making ground-first contact. Much energy is lost to the ground, leaving less energy for the ball.

Things which may cause ground-first contact include:
1. ball position is in front of your swing bottom (front being further from target, back being closer to target)
2. weight is not shifting to the left side sufficiently
3. hands fire too early in the downswing, causing early casting, dropping the club head early

Things you can do to improve include:
1. ensure you are shifting your weight to the left side in the swing (assuming right handed)
2. from the top of your backswing, ensure you start the down swing with the weight shift, and NOT the hands
3. swing and check where your club contacts the ground. That's your swing bottom.
4. place the ball just before the swing bottom.

Check out this slow motion impact video.

You will notice these:
1. the weight starts to shift to the left side way before the club head comes down
2. most of the flying dirt comes after the ball position, not before the ball position
3. the bottom of the divot, i.e. the swing bottom, occurs after the ball (behind the ball)



Here's another video, from a different view. You will notice that the ball flies up a few inches before the dirt (divot) starts to fly.



The above video also explains why it's more difficult to hit out of the rough. In tall grass, we can't avoid hitting some grass first before the ball, thereby affecting the shot. Interesting.

One more video.

Here's Tiger, showing very clearly:
1. weight shift to his left well before the hands come down
2. hands not firing the club until the very last moment
3. divot is taken after the ball flies off



Hope that helps.

If you love learning, you will love this game because it is a wonderful journey of discovery and an endless learning process. You will learn not just about golf, but also about yourself.

Good luck with your swing, and happy discovering.


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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:25 pm

Vijian, how consistent are you with your set up and alignment? It's very often overlooked and taken for granted by the majority of golfers, myself included. Assuming you had the same swing, yet had vastly different results from one day to the next, that might be one area you should be checking on.

Most of us set up based on feel, and how we feel from one day to the next is not the same, especially after pounding 200 balls the night before. It's unreasonable to expect your body to feel the same the next day.

Visually check each point in your setup before you start hitting balls, starting from the ground up.

Are your feet set up the same width every time?

Ball position relative to feet width?

Butt of the club pointing to your belt buckle, indicating that your shaft is on plane at setup?

Hand postion when gripping the club, is it just in front of your shoulders with about a hand's width of space between your body and the butt end of the club?

Are your feet, knees, hips, shoulders and eyes parallel to your target line?

Are your shoulders stacked on top of your knees which are in turn stacked over the balls of your feet.

Your spine position, tilted or not tilted?

So on and so forth.

I'm currently struggling myself to find those right positions again, I got complacent and started to setup based on feel, and before long my setup position was all haywire. I know now how easy everything slips based simply on feel alone.

With the upcoming Barclays, watch the pros at the range you'll see the first thing they check whenever they get to the range is setup and alignment along with body positions. Why do you think the pros hit so well and accurately?

If you don't set up to hit well, you won't.





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vjian
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 2:25 pm

how bout this guys...That was my best swing yesterday...(i think so = =)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hof9UUyEhl0
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:09 pm

vjian wrote:
how bout this guys...That was my best swing yesterday...(i think so = =)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hof9UUyEhl0

Good swing! cheers

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vjian
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:18 pm

lee:well...its just happen 1 or 2 out of 100 balls lolx..
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pocketace
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 6:27 pm

pretty nice looking swing. The trick for most of us hackers is to have a repeatable swing

need not be most orthodox... must be repeatable.

see a pro mate. good luck!
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:08 pm

vjian wrote:
lee:well...its just happen 1 or 2 out of 100 balls lolx..

After seeing your swing, and the description of your issues, I have this thought.

You have pivot-controlled hands. What you need is hand-controlled pivot.

I'll explain the next time we meet up at the range. Very Happy

Cheers.
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vjian
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:29 am

lee:wow cant wait for it...will catch up with you soon..hehe
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:23 am

Lee36328 wrote:
vjian wrote:
lee:well...its just happen 1 or 2 out of 100 balls lolx..

After seeing your swing, and the description of your issues, I have this thought.

You have pivot-controlled hands. What you need is hand-controlled pivot.

I'll explain the next time we meet up at the range. Very Happy

Cheers.
Wow Lee, u are into TGM?
Are u a pro?
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Tituman
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:17 am

Birdman wrote:
Vijian, how consistent are you with your set up and alignment? It's very often overlooked and taken for granted by the majority of golfers, myself included. Assuming you had the same swing, yet had vastly different results from one day to the next, that might be one area you should be checking on.

Most of us set up based on feel, and how we feel from one day to the next is not the same, especially after pounding 200 balls the night before. It's unreasonable to expect your body to feel the same the next day.

Visually check each point in your setup before you start hitting balls, starting from the ground up.

Are your feet set up the same width every time?

Ball position relative to feet width?

Butt of the club pointing to your belt buckle, indicating that your shaft is on plane at setup?

Hand postion when gripping the club, is it just in front of your shoulders with about a hand's width of space between your body and the butt end of the club?

Are your feet, knees, hips, shoulders and eyes parallel to your target line?

Are your shoulders stacked on top of your knees which are in turn stacked over the balls of your feet.

Your spine position, tilted or not tilted?

So on and so forth.

I'm currently struggling myself to find those right positions again, I got complacent and started to setup based on feel, and before long my setup position was all haywire. I know now how easy everything slips based simply on feel alone.

With the upcoming Barclays, watch the pros at the range you'll see the first thing they check whenever they get to the range is setup and alignment along with body positions. Why do you think the pros hit so well and accurately?

If you don't set up to hit well, you won't.

Ha ha talking about opening a can of worms. Now adays, I just see ball hit ball. Maybe thats why I am a seasoned beginner ha ha.

titu
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:38 am

skybobo wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
vjian wrote:
lee:well...its just happen 1 or 2 out of 100 balls lolx..

After seeing your swing, and the description of your issues, I have this thought.

You have pivot-controlled hands. What you need is hand-controlled pivot.

I'll explain the next time we meet up at the range. Very Happy

Cheers.
Wow Lee, u are into TGM?
Are u a pro?

Pai seh. Not a pro, for sure.

Just an avid learner seeking knowledge.

TGM is not without flaws, but it is the most comprehensive guide and most ambitious catalogue I have come across which attempts to document ALL swings styles and explain how they work. It missed only a rare few here and there, but most swing styles in the market today is documented and explained in TGM.

And yes, TGM is one of the several bodies of swing knowledge I study.

And to keep the science from descending into junk-science, as golf swing theories tend to do, a healthy dose of physics and mechanics help as well.

Always happy to share the limited insights I have. In sharing, sometimes the teacher learns more than the student. Razz

Peace.
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:29 pm

From my point of view, you fall into the pattern of a cupper and an arm roller. The pic shows your wrist positions cupped at the top of the swing and a poor arm and shaft position. Your clubhead is on the wrong side of your body (the red circle)


This will cause excessive opening and closing of the clubface making impact inconsistent. Possibly why you can't get the same feeling in your swing from day to day and shot to shot

The cause of the problem is your grip and right arm at set up.



You have the right arm way too much on top of the club causing a week grip and a very straight stiff right arm. This causes the arms to roll, left wrist to cup and the face to open up too much. You should also look at reducing the amount of turn as well

Hope this helps

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vjian
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:42 pm

thx right sided coach.will try to correct my setup to see will make a change or not.again today went to range and have a bad result.anyway i will try to upload more video with higher quality of each club i swing so that you can able to correct my fault again.
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harimau
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:29 pm

vjian wrote:
i found that my swing changing everyday because i always try a new move when i get on the range.Sometimes is good but mostly end up bad.zzz...does every new golfer encountered the same issue?another question...when i hit the ball well..straight and long..but after only a day when i get on the range again i swing the same swing but my ball drop in front of me...zzzz...i just cant remember the move that i just did to make the impact feel so good....or its just 'am gong'???after i practice over 200 ball i get the feeling again but after that i come b the nex day everything is gone= =what happen to me...

You know, after reading what you wrote, I realize that I am in the same situation as you....I mean I tend to improve a bit and then the next session everything just seems to get worse Sad
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harimau
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:34 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
Hi bro
Sounds like your swing relies on timing, all the planets aligning at the right time for you to hit good shots.
Timing is very difficult to reproduce over and over and keep it from day to day and week to week. You need to find out how your current swing works or doesn't work and then eliminate the move that is causing your bad shots.
Try to build a swing where even if the timing is slightly out, your bad shots will not be so bad.

Post a video if you have one and I can have a look at it. Alternatively come for a free swing analysis

Paul

Hi Paul, do you have any tips to fix a backswing that looks like below? Sort of leaning the other side towards target if that makes sense...

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Begbie
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:41 pm

Looks like a much slimmer and younger jimenez ha..
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vjian
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:21 pm

harimau: its because we dunno what we have done wrong and simply fix it..end up screwing up the good habit and perhaps get used to the bad habits...thats a disaster in a golf swing...zzz

G.O.L.F= Game Of Learning Forever
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Tituman
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:50 pm

harimau wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Hi bro
Sounds like your swing relies on timing, all the planets aligning at the right time for you to hit good shots.
Timing is very difficult to reproduce over and over and keep it from day to day and week to week. You need to find out how your current swing works or doesn't work and then eliminate the move that is causing your bad shots.
Try to build a swing where even if the timing is slightly out, your bad shots will not be so bad.

Post a video if you have one and I can have a look at it. Alternatively come for a free swing analysis

Paul

Hi Paul, do you have any tips to fix a backswing that looks like below? Sort of leaning the other side towards target if that makes sense...


Harimau, at the top of your back swing, if you are leaning towards the target instead of away from target, that is where the term " Reverse Pivot " came from and its a no no. Oh heck, coming from a seasoned beginner don't bet your life on it.

Titu
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:55 pm

Tituman wrote:
harimau wrote:
Right_sided_coach wrote:
Hi bro
Sounds like your swing relies on timing, all the planets aligning at the right time for you to hit good shots.
Timing is very difficult to reproduce over and over and keep it from day to day and week to week. You need to find out how your current swing works or doesn't work and then eliminate the move that is causing your bad shots.
Try to build a swing where even if the timing is slightly out, your bad shots will not be so bad.

Post a video if you have one and I can have a look at it. Alternatively come for a free swing analysis

Paul

Hi Paul, do you have any tips to fix a backswing that looks like below? Sort of leaning the other side towards target if that makes sense...


Harimau, at the top of your back swing, if you are leaning towards the target instead of away from target, that is where the term " Reverse Pivot " came from and its a no no. Oh heck, coming from a seasoned beginner don't bet your life on it.

Titu

Hi Harimau

My only tip for this backswing is to "NOT" end up like this. As Titu mentioned, it is a reverse pivot and a No No.
The picture you posted is of Aaron Baddeley when he was demonstrating the stack and tilt swing for a Golf Digest article a few years back. The article was him over exaggerating the position in my opinion as they don't exactly swing like that.

Whether you are right sided or left sided, you should always have your upper body leaning away from the target, not towards the target.
I have found some good examples of Non Right siders that have this correct body shape at the top of their swing.



Schwartzel, Immelman, Olazabal, Faldo are pictured above. All very sound ball strikers

I would conservatively estimate that 80% of golfers I see are reverse pivoting and it is a big cause of slicing, topping and duffing.
It happens because of poor set ups and they get told to shift weight to the right foot, unfortunately they shift the lower, not upper body

Here are some examples of reverse pivot or "tilters". Most golfers that overswing are this way



This is why I am so persistent on getting students to start with the correct set up angles so that they can turn correctly and not reverse pivot.

Put it simply if your lower body shifts to your right, your upper body will reverse pivot. The weight should always feel as if it is on the inside of your right foot, not the outside at the top of your backswing

Hope this helps

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harimau
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:53 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:


It happens because of poor set ups and they get told to shift weight to the right foot, unfortunately they shift the lower, not upper body



Hi Paul, many thanks for the in-depth explanation. I find the above statement very interesting, whole new perspective for my understanding of weight shift during the backswing. Can you elaborate briefly how to achieve the proper way of shifting the upper body? Do you mean like leaning your upper body towards the back foot?
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rsenal
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:32 pm

I agree with Paul that set-up is essential for a proper turn.

I think if you compare the 2 sets of pictures, you can see that the good players left shoulder leaves the left thigh and shifts to the right thigh.

My key is to rotate my upper body against the the lower body to achieve coil. I make sure I have my reverse K at set up and during the backswing I dont slide my right hip and ensure right knee stays flex.

Once you unwind the coil (lower body), upper body will by physics follow suit.
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zixter
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:34 pm

I had a reverse pivot problem (and many other problems) for a while and here are my swing thoughts to prevent it from happening as much as possible. My game has gotten a lot more enjoyable without those fat shots.

1) Focus to get my left shoulder slightly behind the ball during back swing.
2) Let the left hand be in control from start to finish, part of this is to keep my right arm close to my body. This helps me not overswing because I realize that when I reverse pivot, the top of the back swing feels like my right hand is the controlling hand and that's where everything gets disastrous
3) Try to keep my lower body as quiet as possible.

Hope this helps because for me, they do!
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tfong
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Mon May 14, 2012 11:32 pm

lol. the 2 exact same problems that i had. just sharing my experience, correct me if im wrong. by having the left hand on top instead of the right allow you to release the club much easier and a stiff right hand might force your left to collapse early. to cure the overswing i focus a lot on a 9 to 3 o clock swing for all my irons to ensure that i am in control of the amount of backswing.
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PostSubject: Re: How to get my swing fixed?   Today at 8:21 am

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