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 Ball plug in slope of sand bunker

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TDO
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PostSubject: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:34 am

I was playing in the recently concluded Senior Amateur at OCC.

My flight mate hit his ball into the sand bunker. On reaching the sand bunker, he found the ball to be plugged deep on the side of the sand bunker in a sloping position.

He declared his ball unplayable. With the consent of another flight mate, he proceeded to drop his ball in the bunker with a one stroke penalty.

I am not sure of the ruling but I probably would have proceeded with hitting the ball since it's still playable, never mind if it's difficult. (Have done it before)

Would anyone like to help clarify if the declaration of ball unplayable is allowed.

Cheers!
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Ssquirrel
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:39 am

Can declare ball unplayable anywhere on course... except in the water hazard..

I think lah.. I'm a social weekend golfer..
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Denmeister
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:40 am

You can declare your ball unplayable anytime and anywhere.

One stroke penalty.

In this case, your friend did the correct thing by dropping the ball in the bunker again. But was it within 2 club lengths and not nearer to the hole?

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TDO
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:41 am

I am not sure. But I guess it should be because his buggy mate was watching.
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Denmeister
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:59 am

I once topped and pulled my tee shot about 50m and it landed in front of a 10 ft bush. If I were to continue from there, i would have to hit the ball back towards the tee box and then use a 3wood to hit from a downhill lie. The odds of this shot, which will be my third, matching the distance of my new tee shot, is zero.

So I declared the first ball unplayable and re-teed my 2nd ball. I was hitting 3rd shot from the tee and hit a beautiful drive. 2nd wife always nicer....

5 on, 1 putt for bogey, instead of a possible 6 on, 2 putt.

So when U declare a ball unplayable, apart from the

1) 2 club length not nearer to the hole option, you can also choose to
2) play from the position where you last hit the ball, or the third option,
3) which is to play the next shot in line with the pin and where the ball is currently resting and go back as far as you want.

You also incur the 1 stroke penalty
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TDO
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:25 am

It takes a lot to know the rules in the simple yet complicating game.
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Denmeister
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:33 am

Another one for you:

A pond in front of your tee box.
Your tee shot enters water.

You choose to hit it from the tee box.

Can you tee your ball up again?

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TDO
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:42 am

If it's red stakes we can right?
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:47 am

Denmeister wrote:
Another one for you:

A pond in front of your tee box.
Your tee shot enters water.

You choose to hit it from the tee box.

Can you tee your ball up again?


Usually, yes, can, for both red and yellow stakes.

If there is a local rule, involving a drop zone, check the local rule. Usually, the drop zone is an option, so the player may choose to drop in the zone, or retake the shot from the tee box. And can hit the ball of a tee because it is a tee box.

If in the very rare case where the local rule states you MUST use the drop zone (I have not seen in personally, but it's up to the course owner to set the local rule), then you must use the drop zone. Local rule overrides.
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TDO
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:58 am

During my game at the Senior Amateur at OCC on 20 Oct'11, local rule do not apply. That is, if your tee shot entered water, you are not allowed to play the ball at the drop zone and have to play according to USGA & R&A ruling. Meaning drop the ball at the point of entry or tee up again.


Last edited by TDO on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:17 am

TDO wrote:
During my game at the Senior Amateur at OCC on 20 Oct'11, local rule do not apply. That is, if you tee shot entered water, you are not allowed to play the ball at the drop zone and have to play according to USGA & R&A ruling. Meaning drop the ball at the point of entry or tee up again.

I did not know that, thanks for sharing. That makes sense. The local rule drop zone is intended to speed up play by making it easier, good lie in the drop zone. Tournament of course is a test of skill.
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julianseah
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:54 am

i usually read the score card. rules of the course would state what is the procedure/penalty in ball plug situations.
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:57 am

julianseah wrote:
i usually read the score card. rules of the course would state what is the procedure/penalty in ball plug situations.
It's different when you are taking part in an Amateur Championship sanctioned by USGA or R&A. Therefore local rules may not count.
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:30 pm

Great! Now I know. If tournament play and it is a sanctioned tournament, no use of drop zone unless specified by tournament officials.

We learn something everyday!

Tq!
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mengteck71
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:24 pm

Two questions:

Firstly, I know the fence (separating road and course) is an immovable obstruction that does not entitle a free drop but can declare unplayable and take a drop with penalty of one stroke.

What about those metal beams or poles that are erected to SUPPORT the fence and protrude out and away from fence into the ground? Any free drop or take it as part of the fence and declare unplayable?

Secondly, what about lamppost and electrical box that block ball flight but not the swing or stance? Is it correct that there is no free drop and incase u hit it with the ball, it entitles u to rehit again WITHOUT penalty?
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julianseah
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:58 pm

TDO wrote:
julianseah wrote:
i usually read the score card. rules of the course would state what is the procedure/penalty in ball plug situations.
It's different when you are taking part in an Amateur Championship sanctioned by USGA or R&A. Therefore local rules may not count.

oh... Question now I learn something new...
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Denmeister
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:41 pm

Hi Mengteck71,
Did u check in the scorecard whether the fence is:

A) immovable obstruction
B) considered OB.

If A, then it is an obstruction. An immovable one means that u r entitled a free drop. If movable, u can move the obstruction.
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:25 pm

TDO wrote:

He declared his ball unplayable. With the consent of another flight mate, he proceeded to drop his ball in the bunker with a one stroke penalty.Cheers!

Can I just add one comment. Your playing partner does not have to consent, if you think your ball is "unplayable" it is your choice 100% your playing partner has absolutley no say in it whatsoever!

You can declare your ball unplayable in the middle of the fairway, it is YOUR choice.

A great example, is the Masters a few years ago...

Tiger was putting and he hit the ball too hard and it went in a bunker.

He know has a tough bunker shot.

So he declares the ball unplayable, one of the options is to replay the orginal stroke.

So he places the ball on the green as close to where the orginal was played from, (one stroke penalty) then rolls the ball in, goes on to win.....

Your playing partner has no say in decalring a ball unplayable. Beer
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:34 pm

shorthitter wrote:
TDO wrote:

He declared his ball unplayable. With the consent of another flight mate, he proceeded to drop his ball in the bunker with a one stroke penalty.Cheers!

Can I just add one comment. Your playing partner does not have to consent, if you think your ball is "unplayable" it is your choice 100% your playing partner has absolutley no say in it whatsoever!

You can declare your ball unplayable in the middle of the fairway, it is YOUR choice.

A great example, is the Masters a few years ago...

Tiger was putting and he hit the ball too hard and it went in a bunker.

He know has a tough bunker shot.

So he declares the ball unplayable, one of the options is to replay the orginal stroke.

So he places the ball on the green as close to where the orginal was played from, (one stroke penalty) then rolls the ball in, goes on to win.....

Your playing partner has no say in decalring a ball unplayable. Beer



This goes to the top of my "To Note" page. Tks SH. Valuable info for me.

titu
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mengteck71
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:39 pm

Denmeister wrote:
Hi Mengteck71,
Did u check in the scorecard whether the fence is:

A) immovable obstruction
B) considered OB.

If A, then it is an obstruction. An immovable one means that u r entitled a free drop. If movable, u can move the obstruction.

the ball landed on the concrete slab where the support beam (supporting the fence) is fixed.

The fence is immoveable obstruction based on SCC rule. I will take pictures and post here after game on Wed Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:49 pm

Hi Mengteck,

http://golf.about.com/cs/rulesofgolf/a/rule24.htm

The link explains both immovable and movable obstructions.
Free drop as long as it is an obstruction according to the club's definition in the scorecard.

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mengteck71
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:57 pm

thanks but i can easily google for the definitions... but the problem is the way they phrase it..

dont u think after reading... its more confusing? its like reading contract with all the lawyers jargons and lingo..


i am looking for more layman english and explanation.

I will snap pics and post.. easier to understand and explain
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PostSubject: Re: Ball plug in slope of sand bunker   Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:42 pm

Hi Mengteck,
I totally understand what u mean.

As I have previously stated, as long as the object is termed," ... Obstruction " in the rules written in the scorecard, u are entitled to a relief without penalty.

Immovable obstruction like fences, fence poles, light poles etc
Movable obstruction like distance markers, rope holders preventing buggies from being driven into greens etc.

The above obstructions must be stated in the scorecard.

Now, a question for everyone, how about those red and yellow hazard stakes and ob stakes? Are these obstructions?
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