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buweeza
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PostSubject: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:26 pm

Hello...

I've been stucked at around 88-94 scores for quite some time. Usually able to keep driver on fairway and avoid OB / Hazards. Irons are okay but tend to fade with the longer ones.

Biggest problem is around the green chipping and the 40-80m shots where I can't do a full swing on my wedge. On full swing, my wedge is also problematic. Same swing but distances can vary 20metres depending on contact (sometimes the ball goes very high and other times adopts a low trajectory) - inconsistent contact. I don't have this problem with my normal irons- Just my wedge.

I am not too good at putting also. Tend to 3 putt about 5-6 times out of 18 holes.

For those 40m shots, I do a half swing on my wedge. Issue with doing this is that it alters my tempo and sometimes I am open on impact (slice) or too aggresive on the downswing (pull). (aside from the trajectory problem I talked about earlier)

For my fringe shots, I tend to have issues getting a consistent crisp contact with the ball. Changed my stance totally to put the ball back and shift weight to left leg. Feels like am compacting the ball into the ground and making it bounce up. However doing this I lost the feel for distance. Worse result is chomping into the ground too much (esp if soft ground) and taking it "thick". Is this the right stance and do I just need to practice?
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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:28 pm

see a pro for proper instruction and plan to help you play better, you seem to be struggling with your short game.

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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:14 pm

I have same situation as buweeza, exactly the same scores, same issues with long clubs and 3 putting and duffing on chips/pitches

took up lessons already...problem is I still choke and forgot about them when the pressure is on.
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:45 pm

Lessons are expensive. If it is a practice problem then I'd rather play more.

To be honest, sometimes I wonder maybe I expect too much from myself considering the frequency of play is only once a week.

As my Dad points out, he has been playing 80s-90s for 20 years. How much better can you go if you are a weekend golfer? Anybody knows a weekend golfer that is playing scratch?
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:50 pm

I am a monthly golfer and I am very glad I can break 100


Consistently fm non- black or gold tee
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jimmychoo
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:58 pm

Weekend Golfer = Social Golfer = So serious for what? Razz
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TDO
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:59 pm

IMHO, I think the most important part of the game is the short game and putting. My problem is I always have about 2 holes where I will 3 putt. And that can be miserable and torturous.
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klt8144
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:05 pm

pushslice wrote:
I have same situation as buweeza, exactly the same scores, same issues with long clubs and 3 putting and duffing on chips/pitches

took up lessons already...problem is I still choke and forgot about them when the pressure is on.

bro... last time after bro Blee coach you at occ you had been playing <88...so breaking 90 ( up) will not be good. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:08 pm

What's your handicap? 3 Putt is quite common for me when I "ON" a distance from the pin. Especially at Raffles when the greens are fast and tricky (especially if its a downslope putt). I won't say I a very bad putter.. but if I 3 putt only 2 holes in a round I'd be happy

TDO wrote:
IMHO, I think the most important part of the game is the short game and putting. My problem is I always have about 2 holes where I will 3 putt. And that can be miserable and torturous.
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botak
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:10 pm

jimmychoo wrote:
Weekend Golfer = Social Golfer = So serious for what? Razz

I like!
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:18 pm

klt8144 wrote:
pushslice wrote:
I have same situation as buweeza, exactly the same scores, same issues with long clubs and 3 putting and duffing on chips/pitches

took up lessons already...problem is I still choke and forgot about them when the pressure is on.

bro... last time after bro Blee coach you at occ you had been playing <88...so breaking 90 ( up) will not be good. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

it comes and goes bro...very inconsistent. Still self destruct often. But I definitely played <90 a few more times this year than in 2010 so there's an improvement. Not bad considering I only play once/twice a month Very Happy
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bkll
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:21 pm

“Three greens break 90, eight greens break 80, and 13 greens break 70"

I use the above as a guide to see if I should be working on my long game or my short game.
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TDO
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:25 pm

buweeza wrote:
What's your handicap? 3 Putt is quite common for me when I "ON" a distance from the pin. Especially at Raffles when the greens are fast and tricky (especially if its a downslope putt). I won't say I a very bad putter.. but if I 3 putt only 2 holes in a round I'd be happy

TDO wrote:
IMHO, I think the most important part of the game is the short game and putting. My problem is I always have about 2 holes where I will 3 putt. And that can be miserable and torturous.

Last month was 15.2. Currently 16. Going up and down like stock market, Sad
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:39 pm

buweeza wrote:
Lessons are expensive. If it is a practice problem then I'd rather play more.

short game is not just abt practise......

with good coaching, u will understand the multi-facets of a good short game.... when n how to use your wedge to play whatever shot u need to put the ball near or into the hole

sometimes its good to spoil yourself to go seek a coach....
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billi
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:02 pm

slinger wrote:
buweeza wrote:
Lessons are expensive. If it is a practice problem then I'd rather play more.

short game is not just abt practise......

with good coaching, u will understand the multi-facets of a good short game.... when n how to use your wedge to play whatever shot u need to put the ball near or into the hole

sometimes its good to spoil yourself to go seek a coach....


bro you never coach me ,,,, long time liao . 9holes
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mengteck71
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:19 pm

I agree with slinger.. See a coach and learnt newthings that u never have thought of.. How abt floping a ball onto the range shed from 3 -5 meters away? Smile
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:59 pm

Go look for Justin han if u want short game. Keeping the club face open or close after the shot makes a lot of difference. There are a few strong single hcp players inside here but they will never admit. Short game needs a lot d practise and also how u read your games. And for putting, go for strength control first instead of thinking of holing the putts. By strength control, it doesn't mean slowing ur putting stroke.
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jimmychoo
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:16 am

TDO wrote:

Last month was 15.2. Currently 16. Going up and down like stock market, Sad
Mine is one sided..... going all the way up. From a 10.3 last 2 year to 16.3 now Embarassed
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dmateo
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:54 am

is there a weekend player that is scratch. I'm sure there is but maybe not in our circle.
My self a weekday player (once a week not all weekday), and currently trying to break 80.

my experience on what is the difference between 90-100 and 80-90 score ? is the green approach. This means your second iron shot or first shot on par 3. On normal course that means 14 shot to the green.

Once drive is stablize you will need to be ON for a decent chance of par / +1. If you're lucky you might even 1 put it and get a birdie. The other advantage if your sharp with your 2nd shot is that it will save you a lot when your drive goes to adjacent fairway etc.

What I meant with sharp iron play is something like radius 1.5m for 50m and below, 3m for 100 meter and 10m for 150 and below. Obviously the smaller the radius the better. 50m to 150 can be trained easily by going to range and aim at those distance marker/basket. less than 50 will be tricky, but not impossible.

good luck.
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klt8144
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:12 am

pushslice wrote:
klt8144 wrote:
pushslice wrote:
I have same situation as buweeza, exactly the same scores, same issues with long clubs and 3 putting and duffing on chips/pitches

took up lessons already...problem is I still choke and forgot about them when the pressure is on.

bro... last time after bro Blee coach you at occ you had been playing <88...so breaking 90 ( up) will not be good. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

it comes and goes bro...very inconsistent. Still self destruct often. But I definitely played <90 a few more times this year than in 2010 so there's an improvement. Not bad considering I only play once/twice a month Very Happy

like you,, I am trying hard to break 90 all the times.. but more frequently it went the other way..sigh...still trying to understand what went wrong...
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:05 am

My apologies in advance, what I am about to say might be considered rude. But it is said with the spirit of getting to the heart of the matter in order to be helpful.

buweeza wrote:
Lessons are expensive. If it is a practice problem then I'd rather play more.

The first sentence above sums up the main key to unlock the potential of your shortgame.

From your first post, it is clear you have yet to uncover all the elements that affect the shortgame and putting. By the way, putting is quite a different kettle of fish, and is best be treated separately from shortgame to give it a focus it deserves.

So, if you continue to practice your inherent shortcomings (which we all have as beginners) without knowing what they are or how to fix them, you will.... make the shortcomings permanent, not perfect.

buweeza wrote:

To be honest, sometimes I wonder maybe I expect too much from myself considering the frequency of play is only once a week.

When you put it together with the previous sentence, yes, you are expecting too much output in comparison with the input. Not your fault, simply human nature in thinking the more I practice, I must eventually get better. Yes, provided you know what you should be practicing. If not, more on that below.

buweeza wrote:

As my Dad points out, he has been playing 80s-90s for 20 years. How much better can you go if you are a weekend golfer?

Respectfully, your dad is the best example of what you will be if you continue as he has done. If he also did not get formal/proper coaching (perhaps because he also found it expensive) and he continued to play the game he loves once a week, that's the result. And genetically, you have half from him. So it makes a good prediction of future outcome.

Not sure whether your dad obtained coaching or not, but if you follow his path, you most likely will get his results. Am sure he loves his golf, and shooting 80s-90s is not an issue where his enjoyment of the game is concerned. If that is also for you, no issue, you will enjoy a lifetime of pleasure from the game. If that is not for you, and you have a higher aspiration and expectation of your game, you need to do something different to get a different outcome.

Suggested Plan A - Baby steps to follow for shortgame:
1. get some good books on the subject. Dave Pelz, Dave Stockton, Stan Utley, etc are renowned experts in their fields.
2. read and understand these books
3. stop playing, and instead, go to the chipping/putting green and practice what's in the books a few hours per session, until you can get the ball up and down from anywhere around the green, including bunker, rough, upslope (easy), downslope (hard), fast green, slow green... etc
4. for putting, repeat steps above on the green.

Or

Plan B:
go see a good shortgame/putting coach.

Plan A will take much longer, but you will obtain a deep understanding of spin and distance control from different lies with different clubs.

Plan B will be spoon-feeding the knowledge to you, takes shorter time to get results. But spoon-feeding transfers only methods, not insight. For that, you must still practice until the lightbulb comes on.

It is clear when I play with someone who has a sharp short game and putting, that these players have found their light bulbs, the key insight. And understandably for some, it is human nature to protect/guard something valuable carefully, so not all are generous to share. But some may, if you become good friends with them and show that you are a worthy student. Seek them out. If you can't find them, your best bet is still to get a good coach.

Best of luck with whichever path you choose.

Peace.
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:20 am

Thanks Bro. I have a repeatable stroke and usually can get it to my target on the range. It is just that on the course, with the different lie/slope, wind and I think a significant extent mental conditions, I usually miss the green 10-20m. Manage to get about 3-4 GIR in a game and maybe another 4-5 on the fringe. Know my weakness is shortgame as I rarely "convert" those fringe chips/putt to pars.

Have been reading up on how to improve consistency. Some of the articles I read include changing to a a steel shaft (currently I'm using graphite) and also to reduce swing. Some older uncles at the club told me to use a longer club to hit shorter distance instead of swinging each club at 100% (which I am doing now). Also I am currently hitting a high draw type of Iron shot which tends to miss/run left out of the green. I compensate by aiming to the right. I've been receiving mix tips from my golf kahkees. Some say that I should not change my alignment to suit my swing but change my swing instead. Some say that there is not perfect swing so I should accept my swing and learn to cope with it by adjusting my aim. Some say that I should change to a high/slight fade (which to me is to go slight outside-in swing path) as it will improve my GIR rate. Alot of different info so sometimes I get confused.. Even online websites have different views. Haha.. But I guess this is the interesting part of golf... constantly looking for ways to improve.

dmateo wrote:
is there a weekend player that is scratch. I'm sure there is but maybe not in our circle.
My self a weekday player (once a week not all weekday), and currently trying to break 80.

my experience on what is the difference between 90-100 and 80-90 score ? is the green approach. This means your second iron shot or first shot on par 3. On normal course that means 14 shot to the green.

Once drive is stablize you will need to be ON for a decent chance of par / +1. If you're lucky you might even 1 put it and get a birdie. The other advantage if your sharp with your 2nd shot is that it will save you a lot when your drive goes to adjacent fairway etc.

What I meant with sharp iron play is something like radius 1.5m for 50m and below, 3m for 100 meter and 10m for 150 and below. Obviously the smaller the radius the better. 50m to 150 can be trained easily by going to range and aim at those distance marker/basket. less than 50 will be tricky, but not impossible.

good luck.
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:31 am

Thanks Lee for taking time to read and post some very insightful comments.

Definitely I have higher aspirations than my current score. I have no target in mind but just a constant drive to improve that keeps me addicted to the game of golf.

I spend alot of my time (including at work even Smile. . like now .. hee.. reading online resources. I also spend 2 evenings at the driving range a week.

I took a beginner coaching class about a year ago.. but since then have not gone for any professional coaching.

My brother took personal coaching at Heartland golf sch just a few months ago. TBH, I thought the lessons were quite expensive (but the coach is good I admit). I tried to get him to impart tips (abit shy to admit haha) but did not really work well for me.

I was focusing alot on irons / driver previously but now am trying to fix my short game. Issue is that I'm a member at RCC but because of proximity I practice at JCC. At JCC there is no area for me to practice chipping and putting (currently close). I tried to practice chipping at my front lawn (at home) but stopped after I smacked my Dad's car a few times and got caught Wink haha. So now yeah... I practice chipping at the JCC range by aiming the 50M flag.. but without a proper grass area it doesnt really help me on the course.

Lee36328 wrote:
My apologies in advance, what I am about to say might be considered rude. But it is said with the spirit of getting to the heart of the matter in order to be helpful.

buweeza wrote:
Lessons are expensive. If it is a practice problem then I'd rather play more.

The first sentence above sums up the main key to unlock the potential of your shortgame.

From your first post, it is clear you have yet to uncover all the elements that affect the shortgame and putting. By the way, putting is quite a different kettle of fish, and is best be treated separately from shortgame to give it a focus it deserves.

So, if you continue to practice your inherent shortcomings (which we all have as beginners) without knowing what they are or how to fix them, you will.... make the shortcomings permanent, not perfect.

buweeza wrote:

To be honest, sometimes I wonder maybe I expect too much from myself considering the frequency of play is only once a week.

When you put it together with the previous sentence, yes, you are expecting too much output in comparison with the input. Not your fault, simply human nature in thinking the more I practice, I must eventually get better. Yes, provided you know what you should be practicing. If not, more on that below.

buweeza wrote:

As my Dad points out, he has been playing 80s-90s for 20 years. How much better can you go if you are a weekend golfer?

Respectfully, your dad is the best example of what you will be if you continue as he has done. If he also did not get formal/proper coaching (perhaps because he also found it expensive) and he continued to play the game he loves once a week, that's the result. And genetically, you have half from him. So it makes a good prediction of future outcome.

Not sure whether your dad obtained coaching or not, but if you follow his path, you most likely will get his results. Am sure he loves his golf, and shooting 80s-90s is not an issue where his enjoyment of the game is concerned. If that is also for you, no issue, you will enjoy a lifetime of pleasure from the game. If that is not for you, and you have a higher aspiration and expectation of your game, you need to do something different to get a different outcome.

Suggested Plan A - Baby steps to follow for shortgame:
1. get some good books on the subject. Dave Pelz, Dave Stockton, Stan Utley, etc are renowned experts in their fields.
2. read and understand these books
3. stop playing, and instead, go to the chipping/putting green and practice what's in the books a few hours per session, until you can get the ball up and down from anywhere around the green, including bunker, rough, upslope (easy), downslope (hard), fast green, slow green... etc
4. for putting, repeat steps above on the green.

Or

Plan B:
go see a good shortgame/putting coach.

Plan A will take much longer, but you will obtain a deep understanding of spin and distance control from different lies with different clubs.

Plan B will be spoon-feeding the knowledge to you, takes shorter time to get results. But spoon-feeding transfers only methods, not insight. For that, you must still practice until the lightbulb comes on.

It is clear when I play with someone who has a sharp short game and putting, that these players have found their light bulbs, the key insight. And understandably for some, it is human nature to protect/guard something valuable carefully, so not all are generous to share. But some may, if you become good friends with them and show that you are a worthy student. Seek them out. If you can't find them, your best bet is still to get a good coach.

Best of luck with whichever path you choose.

Peace.
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:17 am

Bro, if u can keep ur driver on fairway and with decent iron shots, I can say u have no prob in breaking 90. U just need to focus on those 100m and below shots.

The key to wedge shots is commit and accelerate, do not decelerate, else u are likely to top. Use diff loft to control distance. For me, a 60 degree for 55m, 52 degree for 75m etc.

For chipping, do not use use hands, u need a bit of rotation too. Use just 1 club for chipping. Once u are proficient, then learn to play with loft

As for fringe shot, putt it. There is no need to chip. Throw ur ego away.

For putting, improve ur lag putting first. Learn to putt near.
For shot putts with break, give much more break allowance, for short slight break, putt firm. U have to experiment urself.

Last but not least, take this with a pinch of salt from a high hcp. All the best
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Breaking 90   Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:56 am


Thanks for the tips Bro. For strength control, I understand that this means practice practice practice to get muscle memory and stroke consistency? There are various putting drills online (e.g. putt 10 balls, each 1 slightly further than the prior, all within 10ft)


duffader wrote:
Go look for Justin han if u want short game. Keeping the club face open or close after the shot makes a lot of difference. There are a few strong single hcp players inside here but they will never admit. Short game needs a lot d practise and also how u read your games. And for putting, go for strength control first instead of thinking of holing the putts. By strength control, it doesn't mean slowing ur putting stroke.
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