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 Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion

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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:55 pm

I used the quick tips at TMCC just now. Managed to intentionally hit a couple draws with my hybrid around some doglegs.

Despite all the long/technical discussion here, the practical application can be made simple.

Draw: Body/feet aim right, face square or just slightly right. Swing normally.
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:56 pm

I can vouch for YC's comments.

He knew about the laws when I met him but the way he swung meant there was no way he could get his club coming down on the correct path to make the laws of any use to him.
He realised this after seeing his swing on video

His improved set up and turn now makes it possible to get his path correct and the draw is now easy for him.

If you are aware of the laws and cant execute, it is more than likely due to your body and club being out of position. This is a set up issue. See a coach who can video your swing and make the corrections otherwise you may be fighting a loosing battle.

If the coach doesnt change your set up and body positions then I would be sceptical as to how it is going to make a difference to your ball flight
Beer





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Slicer51
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:42 pm

pushslice wrote:
I used the quick tips at TMCC just now. Managed to intentionally hit a couple draws with my hybrid around some doglegs.

Despite all the long/technical discussion here, the practical application can be made simple.

Draw: Body/feet aim right, face square or just slightly right. Swing normally.

So good ! Cheers Jump
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:15 pm

pushslice wrote:
I used the quick tips at TMCC just now. Managed to intentionally hit a couple draws with my hybrid around some doglegs.

Despite all the long/technical discussion here, the practical application can be made simple.

Draw: Body/feet aim right, face square or just slightly right. Swing normally.

Aww... dun be a party pooper now. Then it would be a very short thread! Laughing Laughing Laughing

But seriously, very glad to hear you drew it around some doglegs. Fun wasn't it? Next time, try some fades.

From my experience so far, I find it's a lot easier to draw an iron than to fade it. It's a lot easier to fade a driver than to draw it, in fact very easy to slice it actually. It's because of the hitting down vs hitting up effect.

For the rest, this demonstrates why there is no need to fear the new ball flight laws. It works for everyone. No special training needed, assuming swing is pretty balanced and repeatable.

And in fact, as long as you apply it judiciously (without overdoing it), not much practice needed.

Peace.
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ljlow
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:31 pm

Lee36328 wrote:
And in fact, as long as you apply it judiciously (without overdoing it), not much practice needed.

"When I ask you to take an aspirin, please don't take the whole bottle." ~~ The Little Red Book, Harvey Penick Wink
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:39 pm

ljlow wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
And in fact, as long as you apply it judiciously (without overdoing it), not much practice needed.

"When I ask you to take an aspirin, please don't take the whole bottle." ~~ The Little Red Book, Harvey Penick Wink

Yes, well put.

I got carried away and set up with my driver to fade... and sliced it way into OB. Lesson learnt. Cost me a ProV1. No
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Trackman numbers and the gear effect   Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:47 pm

Hitting it off the heel and off the toe, and how it affects Trackman numbers and shot shape due to gear effect, is covered in this newsletter on page 4, for those interested in such technical details.

http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter8.pdf
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:29 am

pushslice wrote:
for all the slicers with driver out there, me included.

Shoulder/feet aim slightly right of target, clubface aim at target. Tee a bit higher. Feel like sweeping the ball (to hit up).

Correct?
pushslice wrote:
Thank you Lee.

I'd be afraid to aim the face right to avoid my dreaded pushslice (ie at impact club becomes even more open than my already out to in path).

but how to make face at impact = setup?

This is where the rubber hits the tarmac Razz
pushslice wrote:
I used the quick tips at TMCC just now. Managed to intentionally hit a couple draws with my hybrid around some doglegs.

Despite all the long/technical discussion here, the practical application can be made simple.

Draw: Body/feet aim right, face square or just slightly right. Swing normally.

Pushslice,

very gratifying to see this rapid progression of posts showing how quickly you overcame his initial queries/concerns and mastered the concept. From what I could tell, seems like you hit the draws w hybrids around those doglegs without much practice at the range if any. It also shows how consistent your swing is, hitting the sweet spot consistently. Then without gear effect, D plane makes the shot shape predictable.

Looking forward to hearing very soon that you are also drawing your driver tee shots, if not already by now. With that done, you might even want to reconsider your nick... Very Happy Maybe Babydraw? cheers

Old ball flight laws may have made your push slice a dreaded one. New ball flight laws can certainly help to solve it because now we know what is happening.

Very cool... Cool

Am scheduled to meet up with one of the bros from this forum this afternoon to show him the D plane concept. Will report progress here.

Peace.
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:48 pm

I actually hit few baby draws with driver, and my misses were pulls and hook. Think I overcooked the face aim and or my ball position too forward. No slice with driver yesterday (only 5 holes before washout). Did slice some fairway woods shots so my outside in path is still very hard to fight.

took no practice at all, just read the thread (and honestly I ignored the technical stuff). Went to the course and apply.

now, if only I could pitch and putt Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:59 pm

Going to the range now to try applying it in my irons !!!...
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Slicer51
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:56 pm

pushslice wrote:
I actually hit few baby draws with driver, and my misses were pulls and hook. Think I overcooked the face aim and or my ball position too forward. No slice with driver yesterday (only 5 holes before washout). Did slice some fairway woods shots so my outside in path is still very hard to fight.

took no practice at all, just read the thread (and honestly I ignored the technical stuff). Went to the course and apply.

now, if only I could pitch and putt Laughing

Bro, putting, you look for DGman lah

Pitching/chipping, you look for Slinger, than you will be playing scratch soon lo

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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:14 pm

pushslice wrote:
I actually hit few baby draws with driver, and my misses were pulls and hook. Think I overcooked the face aim and or my ball position too forward. No slice with driver yesterday (only 5 holes before washout). Did slice some fairway woods shots so my outside in path is still very hard to fight.

took no practice at all, just read the thread (and honestly I ignored the technical stuff). Went to the course and apply.

now, if only I could pitch and putt Laughing

Still keeping things simple, w minimal technical nitty gritty:

With driver, assuming hitting up, clean contact near sweet spot (not a toe hit or heel hit to exclude gear effect.)

Pull = path outside in, clubface square to path at impact
so rotate setup to point more right of target, ie. until the pull becomes a straight shot. Adjust further from there to get a draw.

Hook = the difference between clubface and club path at impact was too big
This is a draw that's become too big. Body ok, clubface too closed at impact. Or clubface ok, body pointing too much right. If ball started out to the right of target, adjust body only. If ball started straight at the target, adjust both body and clubface.

Gear effect:

Note that if the ball is impacted near the toe of the driver, ball flight may be a big draw or sometimes hook. This is the gear effect coupled with the bulge of the face of the driver. Just by simply standing closer to the ball to impact the ball at the sweet spot will cure the hook. So, check the ball mark on the club face after impact.

Have fun.
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Power of D Plane   Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:46 pm

Today, saw for myself the power of D Plane properly understood and executed.

A fellow GRian was kind enough to visit me. And we went through the concepts of D plane, the required setup and face alignment to fade and draw, covering irons hitting down and driver hitting up.

Within minutes, he was hitting beautiful draws and fades for irons and driver. Incidentally, he was using my irons and driver, not his own. Even hitting clubs he was not used to did not prove a barrier.

That clearly showed us how the right knowledge, correctly applied, can be highly effective in a short amount of time.

We both gained out of the experience. Always heartwarming to see how this game promotes camaraderie and sharing among like-minded individuals with this common obsession.

Peace.
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:50 am

Lee36328 wrote:
Today, saw for myself the power of D Plane properly understood and executed.

A fellow GRian was kind enough to visit me. And we went through the concepts of D plane, the required setup and face alignment to fade and draw, covering irons hitting down and driver hitting up.

Within minutes, he was hitting beautiful draws and fades for irons and driver. Incidentally, he was using my irons and driver, not his own. Even hitting clubs he was not used to did not prove a barrier.

That clearly showed us how the right knowledge, correctly applied, can be highly effective in a short amount of time.

We both gained out of the experience. Always heartwarming to see how this game promotes camaraderie and sharing among like-minded individuals with this common obsession.

Peace.

Bro Lee,

It is okay to mention my name. I like to take this opportunity to thank you for guiding and teaching this evening especially for such a last minute request when I landed this afternoon.

Hitting draw & fade appear simply when I understand the D plane concepts through you. It really felt good when I hit them in demand.

Most amazing was, I did not believe that I can hit those Miura baby blade of your. The feel was really good. Now, I understand why you like to use them.

To understand the D plane concepts definitely given me the benefit to understand why my ball flight reacted in such a way, when I hit a bad shot.

Not to forget about your talk on mental games, breathing, power core ...etc. I have all those written down in my BB phone. I need to head for the driving range asap once I return home to confirm what I understand. Really excited about !

Once again. Thank you and appreciate it bro
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:19 am

Slicer51 wrote:

Bro Lee,

It is okay to mention my name. I like to take this opportunity to thank you for guiding and teaching this evening especially for such a last minute request when I landed this afternoon.

You are most welcome sir.
Slicer51 wrote:

Hitting draw & fade appear simply when I understand the D plane concepts through you. It really felt good when I hit them in demand.
Very soon, you friends will give you the nickname "Remote Control!"
Slicer51 wrote:

Most amazing was, I did not believe that I can hit those Miura baby blade of your. The feel was really good. Now, I understand why you like to use them.
Yes, and as we know, that is a whole other thread on its own. Cool
Slicer51 wrote:

To understand the D plane concepts definitely given me the benefit to understand why my ball flight reacted in such a way, when I hit a bad shot.
Well said bro; a shot shaping knowledge that also helps us learn from our bad shots and fix the swing on the fly.
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ljlow
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:47 am

Last minute flight to KL on D Plane Experience...

Kudos to you, Slicer51!
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:25 pm

Hi Lee36328,

Nice post here and it really broadened my knowledge. I am not a low handicapper, but certainly when I am trying to fix my swing, I would want the most accurate knowledge and information on hand, otherwise I'm just wasting my time doing the wrong things.

Everyone has their right of opinion on this forum. You have my vote.

Thanks and Keep it up dude!

Shanks!
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:02 am

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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:50 pm

Shanks! wrote:
Hi Lee36328,

Nice post here and it really broadened my knowledge. I am not a low handicapper, but certainly when I am trying to fix my swing, I would want the most accurate knowledge and information on hand, otherwise I'm just wasting my time doing the wrong things.

Everyone has their right of opinion on this forum. You have my vote.

Thanks and Keep it up dude!

Shanks!

Thanks for the kind acknowledgement, Shanks.

I am getting some positive feedback from those who tried it, with encouraging results.

All discussion, questions, opinions are welcome, as always.

Thank you for reading.

Peace.
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:26 pm

Lee36328 wrote:
Here's Sean Foley talking about the changes Tiger had to make to hit the stinger again.

“Basically you have to be able to steepen the attack angle and when you do that the sweet spot, the path of the golf club is moving out to the right so typically when guys get steep they hook it,” said Foley as he walked with Woods during Wednesday’s pro-am at Sherwood Country Club.

“So if you noticed his practice swing there was a lot of swing and shift to the left. The more I’m hitting down the more I have to swing to the left.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/return-of-tigers-stinger/

He he.

Gave this a try and managed to hit a low-flying 3 wood shot.

I opened my stance, ball back, clubface aim at target. By putting my ball back, my hands were a bit further in front, therefore delofting the clubface.

Because I am hitting down more than before, I opened my stance sufficiently so that the club path looked almost straight (at the target) at impact.

Gave it a steady turn (turn steadily, hold the lag, not use the hand to swipe at the ball) and achieved a nice solid *whack!* impact. Ball came out low and straight.

I confess, I practiced this shot at the range one day before trying it on the course. Takes some getting used.

Ha ha, very fun. Give it a try.
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:50 pm

I got it to work really well on the range ... But get the occasional pop up due to the steep AOA ... Still not confident enough to take it to the range ... I'm not alligning myself all that left, but I am swinging left
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:24 pm

TourSwing wrote:
I got it to work really well on the range ... But get the occasional pop up due to the steep AOA ... Still not confident enough to take it to the range ... I'm not alligning myself all that left, but I am swinging left

Sounds like good progress. Sounds like iron, not driver, since you are aligning to the left of the target. But then, how do you get a pop up if it's iron. Teed up is it?

If you setup left by rotating around the point of impact, the angle of attack will not change much. Not sure if you see what I mean? And obviously, you're getting ball-first contact, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:31 pm

3w of a low tee .. Back in the stance, hence a steep AOA .. Definitely ball first contact Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:41 pm

Ah, I see. The stinger w 3 wood is really fun to try off the deck. When you pull it off from the fairway, it's really satisfying. No issue with popping up the shot that way. Really hitting down, de-lofting the clubface with hands further ahead than usual.

What the body will find odd are the angles, which would seem a little out, until one gets used to it.

In my case, I find I do not need to deloft or hit down that much, just ball back in the stance, and the shot will come out pretty low.

Have fun!
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PostSubject: Re: Using new ball flight laws (D Plane) on the course - Sharing a discussion   Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:45 pm

Off the deck, interesting, havent tried that yet. Am experimenting with the stinger as a high percentage go to tee shot , especially since the wind against me exaggerates the effect of the minutest sidespin. Theres approx a 20m difference between my stinger and a normal full 3W shot ... Against the wind i expect the diff to be even less, and the accuracy sinificantly better.

For me off the deck is only in the case of two on in a long par 5 ... & I prefer the ball landing softly ...

Back in the stance for me right now is around middle with my weight on the left side. So cant help but come in steep. Anything fwd of that gets a bit too high for my liking ... If i dont hit dwn enough it gets too high
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