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Start1993
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PostSubject: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:25 pm

[/left]I hate to be honest with my first post here. My perceptions of local teaching 'pros' here in Sg is really low, particularly the malay and chinese ones. Those who are going to shell out $K to learn from them, good luck.

While some are phoney duds, those who really know the mechanics of golf swing in most cases will try to relieve you of as much $$$ before imparting little or no knowledge at all. I'm terribly disgusted with this lack of professional ethics among them. So, little wonder most if not all successful golfers in Sg, pro and amateurs, eventually have angmo coaches.

I made the mistake of taking my first few lessons from Mr K (a malay still teaching in Changi NS club I think) many, many years ago. With the modern Internet, no one should suffer the same as me. Another bad thing I observed is driving ranges here have notices forbidding 'outsiders' teaching there. Although I'm unsure if this can be legally enforced, I find it an exercise to monopolise and force people wanting to learn golf to be rip-off by those unethical teaching 'pros'.

If you want to play golf well, my advice is to seek out an ethical teacher, someone who place integrity and honour before $$$, and of course they must not be duds. Most likely to be angmos, but still have to be careful as there as duds that I have seen.

I play off hdcp24 and like most 24s, I ocassionally do high 80s. If there are teaching pros who want to challenge my conviction or what I've said, I'm willing to play a betted match off blue tees on any golf course with you as long as I get my 24 stroke advantage. Black tees are off because some courses require a 200m+ carry which I can't do consistently.

That's all folks and I believe I'm going to be very unpopular here Very Happy
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jaketang
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:52 pm

bro, welcome but r u sure hcp 24 play 80's? Laughing

which club did u submit yr score to? playing 80's even high 80's wont give u hcp 24 leh....
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:40 pm

S1993, I think you are entitled to your own views. If there is no criticism, then there is no improvement. I too want local Pros to be good and make a name for themselves. So far I am agreement with your point of views.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:39 pm

to be fair, the teachers is only as good as the students. If the students takes no effort and just want to learn from the teacher during that 1hr lesson per week, then no improvements can be made.

must read up the theory, ask the teacher questions, 'challenge' the teacher, practice between lessons and do what is taught then ask why it works or does not work when u see the teacher next......

If all the students are like that, then the teachers will have to brush up their skills.

Its the same as schools, why teachers are better at 'good' schools cause they are 'challenged' by almost all the inquisitive students so they are on their toes to be one up while in 'normal' or 'below average' schools most students just make up the numbers in class so the teacher gets 'lazy' and coast through.
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:01 pm

so how has your experience been with the foreign pros?

have you tried them? if so, did your game get better?
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Start1993
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:10 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
so how has your experience been with the foreign pros?

have you tried them? if so, did your game get better?
I detect some hostility there (true?). Look, I'm not the angmo taukee type. Whether playing with or getting tips on golf, they are sincere and honourly. I'm NOT tarring all local teaching pros with one stroke. There may be exceptions except I've yet to see or met one. These I observed from the range.

My chipping improve from tips from an angmo pro at Orchid CC totally unsolicited; he demo and advise after seeing me struggled and then just walked off.

Be honest, how many successful, pro or ama, are coached by locals?? The better ama are coach by their father or relatives! And then angmo come to take them to greater heights. No?


Last edited by Start1993 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Start1993
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:23 pm

tronos wrote:
to be fair, the teachers is only as good as the students. If the students takes no effort and just want to learn from the teacher during that 1hr lesson per week, then no improvements can be made.

must read up the theory, ask the teacher questions, 'challenge' the teacher, practice between lessons and do what is taught then ask why it works or does not work when u see the teacher next......

If all the students are like that, then the teachers will have to brush up their skills.

Its the same as schools, why teachers are better at 'good' schools cause they are 'challenged' by almost all the inquisitive students so they are on their toes to be one up while in 'normal' or 'below average' schools most students just make up the numbers in class so the teacher gets 'lazy' and coast through.

I made fatal mistake of doing just that - ask for a demo, and ended being on my own despite spending time and $$$. But perhaps because of that, I'm now confident enough to take Mr K (the malay teaching pro) on anywhere provided I get the 24 advantage.

Very Happy

I always wonder why I never see MANY malay and chinese teaching pros practising at the locale they teach. Timing out maybe. Maybe when they practise, everyone stops. But, I have seen Murugiah, Khalid Yusoff, Phua Thin Kay and a younger Poh bro practising. Must say not very impressed with that particular Poh bro.

I'll display my prowess at every available opportunity to advertise myself if I were a teaching pro.


Last edited by Start1993 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ironfist
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:50 pm

i guess the only way to not end up blowing all your money on 10 lessons for instance, is to book an individual package and meet the coach. if you're disliking his personality or having thoughts that what he teaches doesn't make sense, then it probably should end right there and then. who knows, you might find one on the same wavelength as you and you'll improve by leaps and bounds, regardless of nationality. IMHO! Very Happy

although i cannot say that i have encountered any of these 'half-baked' coaches, this irks me because i'm currently in the process of finding a coach myself. lol maybe i just have to go by recommendations and not just a stab in the dark.

anyone can recommend? Razz
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Lamts18
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:53 pm

ironfist wrote:
i guess the only way to not end up blowing all your money on 10 lessons for instance, is to book an individual package and meet the coach. if you're disliking his personality or having thoughts that what he teaches doesn't make sense, then it probably should end right there and then. who knows, you might find one on the same wavelength as you and you'll improve by leaps and bounds, regardless of nationality. IMHO! Very Happy

although i cannot say that i have encountered any of these 'half-baked' coaches, this irks me because i'm currently in the process of finding a coach myself. lol maybe i just have to go by recommendations and not just a stab in the dark.

anyone can recommend? Razz


Give Tendy Tsai a try .... Very Happy
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solarpop
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:58 pm

Guess i'm one of those lucky ones who have actually met a good local coach.

First time i took lessons with him was maybe 3 years ago, and that was because my wife wanted to pick up the game so i thought i'd join in to accompany her, even though i had already been playing for 2 years before that. The lessons improved my game quite dramatically, with my average scores dropping from 110+ to below 100 within a few months, and for the first time ever my swing felt correct. I recently went back to him again for refresher lessons, coz i had developed some bad habits and needed some help. And again, i feel like the swing is much better.

Some other aspects about this particular coach that i think makes him stand out - He makes the swing sound easy, which i think is very important. He describes the actions very simply, rather than be over-specific.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, he genuinely builds a relationship with you. You're not just a student from whom he earns money, you become a friend. Even though my paid lessons are completed, he still gives advice as and when he sees me at the range. When he gets a new driver, he'll let me try it out, the same way i'll get him to test drive my new stuff.

There'll always be bad eggs out there, but it's abit unfair to say ALL of them aren't serious about their work
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:59 pm

i have no hostile intentions against u. in fact, i think this is a rather meaningful discussion topic considering the fact of a recent mention of the requirements of becoming an SGA Teaching Pro.

yes, i have to admit that local teaching pros probably do not have the expertise or knowledge to match the foreign talents. I have heard that Australian PGA Pros also have to undergo club-fitting certification and a long testing period of 2 years. If this is true, then this definitely will put them a few steps ahead of the local teaching pros.

u may also just encounter a couple of bad apples and you are just telling everyone that the whole basket is bad.

for myself, my own pro is Steve Tan of Toa Payoh Driving Range. He was the one who taught me golf from the start and even up to now tuning my swings along the way with the occasional games that I play with him. As I did mention before, he definitely will not suit everyone. He is abit rough, direct and blunt. But I just find that I can communicate well with him, he understands my swing and me, and we can get things worked out. Maybe it is the Singlish and hokkien that gets me going...
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Start1993
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:06 pm

Lamts18 wrote:
ironfist wrote:
i guess the only way to not end up blowing all your money on 10 lessons for instance, is to book an individual package and meet the coach. if you're disliking his personality or having thoughts that what he teaches doesn't make sense, then it probably should end right there and then. who knows, you might find one on the same wavelength as you and you'll improve by leaps and bounds, regardless of nationality. IMHO! Very Happy

although i cannot say that i have encountered any of these 'half-baked' coaches, this irks me because i'm currently in the process of finding a coach myself. lol maybe i just have to go by recommendations and not just a stab in the dark.

anyone can recommend? Razz


Give Tendy Tsai a try .... Very Happy

Better ask him/her to hit 10 balls with driver. Ask him/her to demo fade, draw, cut, hitting into the wind etc. After $$ cross hands, good luck. Even if all are satisfied, whether he/she really want to help (notice I mention help and not instruct) you is another matter.

Golf swing is about perspective - the player perspective is very much different from the spectator - these I found out only recently Very Happy
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who8168
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:07 pm

Just a little warning - even 'famous' teaching pros, can be one man's meat & another's poison. There have been many stories of bad experiences with famous pros going around. So do get to meet up with the pro for an interview before you depart with your hard-earned money. Remember that you are the one paying for the service, so you are the boss.
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Alan
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:17 pm

Just happen to see this topic and felt that I shall say something. It is very dangerous to make a sweeping statement。

Start1993 wrote:


I always wonder why I never see malay and chinese teaching pros practising at the locale they teach. Timing out maybe. Maybe when they practise, everyone stops. But, I have seen Murugiah, Khalid Yusoff, Phua Thin Kay and a younger Poh bro practising. Must say not very impressed with that particular Poh bro.

The quote above is conflicting, Khalid (a Malay pro), Phua & Poh (Chinese teaching pro) are practicing, thus the opening statement is invalid "I always wonder why I never see Malay and Chinese teching pro practice......". I also like to believe that pro do practice at their own timing to keep up with the game or experimenting teaching method.

It is in the interest of golfers to do their homework in choosing their pro based on credentials, recommendations or observation.
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smails
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:18 pm

when will you all realise that the only academy producing results in SG is Gary Edwin academy at OCC. Their kids win every tournament, their pros do well. I have tried MGBC, Keppel, NSRCC, Seletar and never improved. RSC has improved my score bu 15 shot per round. He told me 3 yrs training in aussie land and another year training with RSS. And he can play. 3 under par last 9 holes we play together. Oh and did I mention they do a free swing analysis. Any other pro offering this??
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:21 pm

Just FYI.....read that Phil Mickelson changed his putting guru to Mr.Stockton fm the previous Mr.Pelz.

I think coach is like the driver we use, maybe even worse..like putter....it is quite tough to get the right fit the first time.....for some like me, I want the coach to be like my 4 wood....hardly use...but made all aware that I have a 4 wood...hahahah
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:21 pm

A sound fundamental of the golf swing, understanding of how the body mechanic works and the ability to impart knowledge is a pre-requisite for a competent teacher. he or she should be able to customise a programme that suited for that individual schedule and playing ambition. just like a club fitter, where a launch monitor is a necessity rather than a luxury, a good coach should have a swing analysis video system so that the student can see and understand when they are swinging right and when they are off.

not everyone is build equally and hence there is no standard as to how far the 7 iron or driver should carry. your coach should be the first to tell you that, but there are ways to improve accuracy and distance but i doubt that if the golfer do not make efforts to improve their core and fast muscles, its not going to happen. again drills and training devices can help golfers improve accuracy and distance.

having said the above, i don't think its not only the foreign coach who can impart the necessary skills. any coach with good fundamental training and a conviction to help his or her student and one who invest in the necessary equipment is a good start.

DGman

K sounds like lostsoul shifu...we have been telling him for the longest time to.....
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Start1993
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:25 pm

Alan wrote:
Just happen to see this topic and felt that I shall say something. It is very dangerous to make a sweeping statement。

Start1993 wrote:


I always wonder why I never see malay and chinese teaching pros practising at the locale they teach. Timing out maybe. Maybe when they practise, everyone stops. But, I have seen Murugiah, Khalid Yusoff, Phua Thin Kay and a younger Poh bro practising. Must say not very impressed with that particular Poh bro.

The quote above is conflicting, Khalid (a Malay pro), Phua & Poh (Chinese teaching pro) are practicing, thus the opening statement is invalid "I always wonder why I never see Malay and Chinese teching pro practice......". I also like to believe that pro do practice at their own timing to keep up with the game or experimenting teaching method.

It is in the interest of golfers to do their homework in choosing their pro based on credentials, recommendations or observation.

You beat to it before I could correct the above. Like I said I'm not running them down skillwise. BUT, ethics wise I've seen alot and enough. Your last sentence I agree. But how the hell would a beginner know??? AFAIMC, if a teaching pro accepts $$ from a learner, he must give the full monty, no less. Whether he/she likes the student or not cannot go into the equation.

I find angmo coaches TEND to incline on these good qualities, of course there are exceptions. If not why the Koreans and japs swarm the training academies in Oz and NZ?
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Start1993
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:30 pm

Alan wrote:
Just happen to see this topic and felt that I shall say something. It is very dangerous to make a sweeping statement。

Start1993 wrote:


I always wonder why I never see malay and chinese teaching pros practising at the locale they teach. Timing out maybe. Maybe when they practise, everyone stops. But, I have seen Murugiah, Khalid Yusoff, Phua Thin Kay and a younger Poh bro practising. Must say not very impressed with that particular Poh bro.

The quote above is conflicting, Khalid (a Malay pro), Phua & Poh (Chinese teaching pro) are practicing, thus the opening statement is invalid "I always wonder why I never see Malay and Chinese teching pro practice......". I also like to believe that pro do practice at their own timing to keep up with the game or experimenting teaching method.

It is in the interest of golfers to do their homework in choosing their pro based on credentials, recommendations or observation.

Khalid is both pro and coach. I've seen him doing that. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:33 pm

Lamts18 wrote:


Give Tendy Tsai a try .... Very Happy

Better have deep pockets. Care to tell us all his price? Any kids winning anything, any pros?
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:43 pm

jaketang wrote:
bro, welcome but r u sure hcp 24 play 80's? Laughing

which club did u submit yr score to? playing 80's even high 80's wont give u hcp 24 leh....

Thanks for the welcome, bro jaketang Very Happy

Occasional under-par scores do not swing the hdcp down lah. Because, the next score will go right back up Very Happy

I ever played with one bugger who returned a sub-80 and his hdcp is also 24! Very Happy

Sometimes everything click is like that one.
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:03 pm

you just also gotta to remember that singaporean chinese are still chinese essentially. they will retain their chinese businessman qualities where they will not show their wares until they see the money.
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:20 pm

Start1993 wrote:
jaketang wrote:
bro, welcome but r u sure hcp 24 play 80's? Laughing

which club did u submit yr score to? playing 80's even high 80's wont give u hcp 24 leh....

Thanks for the welcome, bro jaketang Very Happy

Occasional under-par scores do not swing the hdcp down lah. Because, the next score will go right back up Very Happy

I ever played with one bugger who returned a sub-80 and his hdcp is also 24! Very Happy

Sometimes everything click is like that one.

hey no prob.... juz tht hcp is not calculated like what many thinks..... Smile

i believe yrs is not 24...... Laughing

well me too, i am ard 22... next time we play..

oh ya, i am spending abit of $$$ to go for some basic lesson soon.... wana join me?
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:22 pm

wah lau a Jake...how can you be 22 handicap?
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jaketang
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PostSubject: Re: My views on local teaching pros   Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:25 pm

DGman wrote:
wah lau a Jake...how can you be 22 handicap?

mr eric, i juz play a sad 94 last fri....

so sad.... so i think i m 22...

i am goin to see RSC for some fresh opinion....


btw, after changing the grip at bfg, my putting did improve abit... hahahaha must be the head...
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