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 How to restrict over active hip during downswing?

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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:35 pm


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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:34 am

Funny how no instructor or those giving advise on here ever mentions where the player is at the top of the backswing or where they set up from. Surely this must be what determines the how and why of what the hips and arms do.
Giving advice to someone without seeing their swing is going to cause more harm than good and is based on a whole lot of assumptions. Different players need different moves to start their downswing based on where their body is and where their club is positioned.
I have used TW as an example and also a RSS player to show this.
If you want to slow your hips down and get your arms to feel like they are dropping first you better be in a position conducive to being able to do this or live with the fact that you need to correct your positions by a fast movement of your hips.
You can't have both! As I always say, it come back to the set up!!

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Ashen
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:27 pm

Hi eiji,

Thank you for your links and video, it has helped me understand more about how the hips play a part in the downswing Very Happy

Hi Paul,

Thank you for the information and video that you have shared. It is really beneficial to me as I can understand how different setups and swing sequence come into relation (thus understanding more about my own swing).

Let me side track a little bit, given the example in the video that you have posted, is there a more preferred way of setup? Or is it really up to individuals preference? From the video , it seems that those setups that are appearing on the right hand side of the screen seems to be a better option for the long run.

Thank you once again for your valuable inputs and advise Very Happy
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:37 pm

pro Paul

Rory has often been mentioned as having the best swing on tour right now and particularly commentator/pundits raves about his hip turn/hip speed.

can you do us a favor and do a vid analysis? I'm interested in his hip movement and his release (old school hogan style or new school flip wrist style)

thanks
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Ashen
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:38 pm

Inspired by the video posted by Paul, I went in search for answers to the questions which I have posted.

I'm trying to find out whats the key difference between the video on the left and right and their benefits.

I think I might have found the answers, which are found in SliceFixers Encyclopedia Texarkana, pages 17 and 18.

Some abstracts below which I thought would be useful to share.

Points relating to the left hand side of the video:

- By setting up too much on top of the ball, most players would slide back then slide forward thus resulting in "ahead of the ball" at impact, which will lead to the club being released early in order to square the face.

- Much more complicated move and require superior timing.

- Most probably resulting in wipes, pulls on woods and inconsistent strikes with irons

Points relating to the right hand side of the video:

- Try to think of it as "turning INTO their right side"

- Eliminates the need for a big bump in the transition to get to the left pivot point

- The feeling is that the arms and club are being pulled down (that is, the butt of the club is being pulled down)

In summary, for the swing sequence appearing on the left hand side of the video, requires more lateral movement in the backswing and downswing thus requiring a lot of coordination and timing.

The swing sequence on the right hand side of the video is more compact, thus reducing lateral movement to the right and left of the body and the swing is anchored around the body without inducing too much lateral movements.

This is my interpretation of the above, would appreciate any kind comments and opinions for discussion.

Thank you Very Happy

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ProGavin
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:16 pm

In reply to your comments Paul,

I agree with you that it is impossible to give a correct evaluation of a golf swing without seeing it, so that is why I didn't mention anything in my post that wasn't true about the majority of Top level professionals and what common traits they all share. Your evaluation of Tiger from Amateur to now was interesting to view, I agree that Tigers early swing was loose and that there was too much lateral motion in his swing. This was however his early days where he still wasn't receiving proper instruction, he then went on to see Butch where they tightened up the lateral movement. Tiger was also at his best at that time, top of the money list, driving stats and putting. Many top Professionals whom i spent time with (Manzella, McLean, Martin Hall) all agree that Tiger was swinging it his best during his time with Butch and especially in 2000. Here are some of his stats from 2000 compared to what he is now doing with Foley.

Brian Manzella regards the swings in this video as the best ever recorded of Tiger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKYIkUBeYrU

Tigers 2000 Stats Compared to 2011

2000
> 2nd in Driving Distance at 298yrds
> 1st in Greens in Regulation (974 of 1296)
> 1st in Eagles, Birdie average and scoring average
> 1st in Total Driving
> 1st in All round ranking
> 1St in Money leaders
> 1st in Consecutive cuts at 59

2011
> Driving Distance - 71st - 293yrds
> GIR 37th
> Eagles, Birdies and Scoring 94th, 16th and 51st
> Money List 128th

You also mentioned in your post about top of the backswing as well as set up.

Please provide evidence of any of the worlds top 100 who have an identical position at the top of the swing and also look at the 2010 1st and 2nd Money leaders, Kuchar and Furyk. 2 Players that couldn't be more different at the top of the swings yet funnily both start their downswings with a lateral shift of their lower bodies.

Set up i agree is also important yet i don't see it as fundamental. From your own experience as a player, do you set up exactly the same when hitting a driver compared to a wedge? What if you want to hit it higher or lower? Sloping lies? Draws and fades???

In writing this i want to be clear that i'm not having a go, but all i was doing was asking the question as to why someone would try and slow down the rotation of the hips. I would say 100% of golfers want to hit it further and they can't do it if they slow down body segments.

There are many different ways to skin a cat.





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gomjgo
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 1:45 pm

Well said, Progavin, "there are many ways to skin a cat".. cheers

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scottycollector
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:02 pm

I think there is no CORRECT swing. There's just CORRECT fundamentals.

And in my view, there is really just one fundamental that applies to all swing types - impact position.

Things like set up etc only aim to help the golfer to attain this impact position, in a repeatable fashion.

As such, whenever I look for a coach, I am always very wary of someone who insists on a specific swing type. The task of the coach is not to make the student swing like the coach, but rather, to help the student discover what kind of set up, swing etc, will best enable the student to achieve perfect and repeatable impact



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ProGavin
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:46 pm

Well said, the golf ball can only react to the physics it is presented with..... yet it is very easy to obtain the correct impact position when you are trying to perform it statically, It is a much harder task to achieve Dynamically.....
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PostSubject: Re: How to restrict over active hip during downswing?   Today at 3:14 am

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