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 Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?

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Newtogolf
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PostSubject: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:37 pm

Was practising hard at the Range to get back my long iron, hybrid and wood sense yesterday to prepare for a game with some friends next week. After all, not exactly being new to the Green and having taken up golf almost a year ago, there's only so many 120+ scores you can write on your scorecard before people stop taking you seriously to this sport....

So I was hammering away with my Nike VR Driver (9.5 degree, pear-shaped) on a 44" stiff Tour-AD shaft on the Range. For some strange reason, I just keep shanking all my shots. I'd rechecked my ball positioning, set up, swung it slow and gradually increasing the speed.... But I ended up playing hockey instead.

Popped out my SQ Machspeed Black 10.5 degree (square-shaped) Driver head, grabbed the Str8 Fit wrench and swapped the VR Driver head with the SQ Machspeed Head. Went back to the ball, setup and lo and behold, all the balls start flying like being shot off a rocket launcher. 150 yards, 200 yards.... *BAM BAM BAM*

Thought its kinda weird and reinstalled my VR Driver back on the same 44" shaft..... Another hockey session that the chap behind me is probably wondering what the hell happened to all that rocket launches I'd smacked off earlier with that loud square driver. Ended up, I simply swapped the square black head back on the 44" shaft and left it there, launched a few more missiles before I went back to my Iron again.

Something that kinda left questions burning.... Is it purely psychological or does the square head driver inspires more confidence in amateurs as compared to the pear-shaped driver?

Now before you answer the question above, there's one more weird thing.... I was launching missiles off with a pear-shaped 3W off the deck before I practiced on my Driver!
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:28 am

Hi Newtogolf,

That is an interesting anecdote, thanks for sharing.

A couple of observations if I may.

Firstly, shanking is defined as:

"What Is It?
Actually, shanking isn’t at all the insidious, terminal, career-ending disease that most golfers believe. It’s just a heeled shot with an iron. That’s right. If you examine your golf clubs, you’ll find that there are two areas of the clubhead that can be used to hit your golf ball. One of them is large and flat—the clubface. The other is small and round—the hosel—and connects the clubhead to the shaft.

If you hit the ball with the heel of any of your irons, the ball will carom off to the right (for you right-handed players) at an alarming angle, and always, it seems, toward trouble. It has nothing to do with the face being open. A shank can be hit with a closed, open or square clubface. This is an important point because if you mistakenly think this is a face angle problem, then you won’t be successful in solving it."

Since the hosel with the driver is high on the club head and situated behind the club face, it is impossible to hit the ball with the hosel of the driver. For that matter, it's impossible to shank with wood or hybrids either. All these clubs have no offset typically, so hosel-ball contact won't occur.

Instead, when the ball is going straight right with the driver, it's more a matter of impact with an open club face. If it goes straight right, it's a push.

When you tried to square up the club face, you "hit hockey shots" as a result.

Without knowing your swing path, swing speed, speed and launch angles, I can't be absolutely sure, but based on what you described, this is what I infer.

9.5 degree loft is too low for your swing. You are unable to launch it properly. 10.5 degree is a better fit.

When the loft is too low, combined with a low swing speed, the launch angle is too low and you get "hockey" shots. When you open up the club face to try to get more loft, the open club face causes the ball to go right.

When you change to a higher lofted driver head, it matches your club head speed better, and the launch angle increases to a point where the ball launches nicely,

I have a friend who swings at above 105 mph. When he hits my 10.5 degree driver, the shot imply balloons. When he hits his 8.5 degree, the shot starts really low and keeps climbing. When I hit his driver, the ball starts low, stays low, does not carry very far, and rolls out a lot.

Cheers.

I have a 9.5 degree which I can hit, but I have to focus on hitting up to increase the launch angle or else it won't launch properly.
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wilkang
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:41 am

I've retired my Nike VR...reason being that the head weight is too light.
Unless you wanna fit it with a 70g and above shaft or rather a broom stick. Laughing Laughing

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shimizu.toruk
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:01 am

wilkang wrote:
I've retired my Nike VR...reason being that the head weight is too light.
Unless you wanna fit it with a 70g and above shaft or rather a broom stick. Laughing Laughing

Now that's a interesting note...I was always under the impression that the Nike VR heads are slightly heavier compared to the other Nike Drivers. I've tried a Nike Machspeed 10.5 (non black) driver and the head feels non-existent.

One thing I realized, when I tee of with a 9.5 driver, my address position needs to be slightly behind compare to teeing off with a 10.5 to compensate for the difference in loft angle without changing the height of the tee. I guess this is to try and catch the ball during upswing on impact.

Bro Wilkang, just out of curiosity, what driver are you using now that you're done with your VR?

ST
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blee67
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:36 am

wilkang wrote:
I've retired my Nike VR...reason being that the head weight is too light.
Unless you wanna fit it with a 70g and above shaft or rather a broom stick. Laughing Laughing

Now you are hitting another brand driver with about 250m carry hor... Very Happy
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:09 pm

Lee36328 wrote:
Hi Newtogolf,

That is an interesting anecdote, thanks for sharing.

A couple of observations if I may.

Firstly, shanking is defined as:

"What Is It?
Actually, shanking isn’t at all the insidious, terminal, career-ending disease that most golfers believe. It’s just a heeled shot with an iron. That’s right. If you examine your golf clubs, you’ll find that there are two areas of the clubhead that can be used to hit your golf ball. One of them is large and flat—the clubface. The other is small and round—the hosel—and connects the clubhead to the shaft.

If you hit the ball with the heel of any of your irons, the ball will carom off to the right (for you right-handed players) at an alarming angle, and always, it seems, toward trouble. It has nothing to do with the face being open. A shank can be hit with a closed, open or square clubface. This is an important point because if you mistakenly think this is a face angle problem, then you won’t be successful in solving it."

Since the hosel with the driver is high on the club head and situated behind the club face, it is impossible to hit the ball with the hosel of the driver. For that matter, it's impossible to shank with wood or hybrids either. All these clubs have no offset typically, so hosel-ball contact won't occur.

Instead, when the ball is going straight right with the driver, it's more a matter of impact with an open club face. If it goes straight right, it's a push.

When you tried to square up the club face, you "hit hockey shots" as a result.

Without knowing your swing path, swing speed, speed and launch angles, I can't be absolutely sure, but based on what you described, this is what I infer.

9.5 degree loft is too low for your swing. You are unable to launch it properly. 10.5 degree is a better fit.

When the loft is too low, combined with a low swing speed, the launch angle is too low and you get "hockey" shots. When you open up the club face to try to get more loft, the open club face causes the ball to go right.

When you change to a higher lofted driver head, it matches your club head speed better, and the launch angle increases to a point where the ball launches nicely,

I have a friend who swings at above 105 mph. When he hits my 10.5 degree driver, the shot imply balloons. When he hits his 8.5 degree, the shot starts really low and keeps climbing. When I hit his driver, the ball starts low, stays low, does not carry very far, and rolls out a lot.

Cheers.

I have a 9.5 degree which I can hit, but I have to focus on hitting up to increase the launch angle or else it won't launch properly.



[img][/img]





Lee, i just couldnt help it......... too funny

just kidding hor......
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Denmeister
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:20 pm

Have to agree with Slinger.

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chinchiachun
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:30 pm

Lee's not the adviser lah, he's the columns writer.
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samT
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:44 pm

Slinger,

What so funny ah? You mean now the article should apply to those advices I sometimes found just a load of crap?

Sorry hor, I just wonderig...
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Denmeister
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:11 pm

Denmeister wrote:
Have to agree with Slinger.


What I meant was that the article that slinger attached was just too funny. As we know Lee, he is always very helpful with his posts.

Lee, hope no offense was taken there, I believe Slinger posted that just as a joke.

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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:37 pm

samT wrote:
Slinger,

What so funny ah? You mean now the article should apply to those advices I sometimes found just a load of crap?

Sorry hor, I just wonderig...


wah, joking leh...

since when was my post ever so seriouss.....
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HyBriD
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:59 pm

Hey,

going back to the topic....

I for one have a friend who can hit like a Pro when he has a Callaway driver on his hands

Be it 8.5 deg to 12 degree loft. Square shape or Pear shape.

But when you give him a different brand.

He hits them like a beginner...either hr tops it. Hits a fat shot or slice them

I believed its all Mental.
Sometimes it does happen.

I also have a friend who doesnt know how to hit fairway wood's
But if you give him any kind of irons....blade or cb type
he can whack them like a pro.
He can even hit a 1iron.

All his bags are irons + driver.
I think our mental mind plays a Big Part
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:32 pm

do a blind test..get somebody to fix the head at random and you tee off blind. LOL the only way to remove mental barrier.
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Newtogolf
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:24 pm

tronos wrote:
do a blind test..get somebody to fix the head at random and you tee off blind. LOL the only way to remove mental barrier.
I guess so. Will have to test it again this weekend practice before my game to see if its really psychological or not.

Really hope its the former though. Else if its really a result of a low swing speed as mentioned by lee, I'll have to work more on increasing my swing speed.
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:52 pm

Newtogolf wrote:
tronos wrote:
do a blind test..get somebody to fix the head at random and you tee off blind. LOL the only way to remove mental barrier.
I guess so. Will have to test it again this weekend practice before my game to see if its really psychological or not.

Really hope its the former though. Else if its really a result of a low swing speed as mentioned by lee, I'll have to work more on increasing my swing speed.

Also check your shaft. If your shaft is mid-kick point or high kick-point, the compounds the problem of launching a low lofted driver head.

Today, I just put into play my 9.5 degree driver for the first time. Worked out well. It is however, paired with a Stiff flex Ahina shaft, rather than the X flex GD Tour AD shaft, so the shaft with one flex softer helped me launch ti properly.
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:56 pm

slinger wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
Hi Newtogolf,

That is an interesting anecdote, thanks for sharing.

A couple of observations if I may.

Firstly, shanking is defined as:

"What Is It?
Actually, shanking isn’t at all the insidious, terminal, career-ending disease that most golfers believe. It’s just a heeled shot with an iron. That’s right. If you examine your golf clubs, you’ll find that there are two areas of the clubhead that can be used to hit your golf ball. One of them is large and flat—the clubface. The other is small and round—the hosel—and connects the clubhead to the shaft.

If you hit the ball with the heel of any of your irons, the ball will carom off to the right (for you right-handed players) at an alarming angle, and always, it seems, toward trouble. It has nothing to do with the face being open. A shank can be hit with a closed, open or square clubface. This is an important point because if you mistakenly think this is a face angle problem, then you won’t be successful in solving it."

Since the hosel with the driver is high on the club head and situated behind the club face, it is impossible to hit the ball with the hosel of the driver. For that matter, it's impossible to shank with wood or hybrids either. All these clubs have no offset typically, so hosel-ball contact won't occur.

Instead, when the ball is going straight right with the driver, it's more a matter of impact with an open club face. If it goes straight right, it's a push.

When you tried to square up the club face, you "hit hockey shots" as a result.

Without knowing your swing path, swing speed, speed and launch angles, I can't be absolutely sure, but based on what you described, this is what I infer.

9.5 degree loft is too low for your swing. You are unable to launch it properly. 10.5 degree is a better fit.

When the loft is too low, combined with a low swing speed, the launch angle is too low and you get "hockey" shots. When you open up the club face to try to get more loft, the open club face causes the ball to go right.

When you change to a higher lofted driver head, it matches your club head speed better, and the launch angle increases to a point where the ball launches nicely,

I have a friend who swings at above 105 mph. When he hits my 10.5 degree driver, the shot imply balloons. When he hits his 8.5 degree, the shot starts really low and keeps climbing. When I hit his driver, the ball starts low, stays low, does not carry very far, and rolls out a lot.

Cheers.

I have a 9.5 degree which I can hit, but I have to focus on hitting up to increase the launch angle or else it won't launch properly.



[img][/img]





Lee, i just couldnt help it......... too funny

just kidding hor......

You're right, the article is funny.

In the case of newtogolf, the technical explanation of the incorrect use of the term 'shanking' both necessary and relevant in order to explain what is actually happening to the driver with the low loft (pushing, NOT shanking), in order to explain to him why he can launch his 10.5 degree but not his 9.5 degree.
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:58 pm

Denmeister wrote:
Denmeister wrote:
Have to agree with Slinger.


What I meant was that the article that slinger attached was just too funny. As we know Lee, he is always very helpful with his posts.

Lee, hope no offense was taken there, I believe Slinger posted that just as a joke.


I am too busy studying, understanding, discussing, and explaining golf concepts to notice why I should take offence. Wink
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Newtogolf
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:07 am

Lee36328 wrote:
Newtogolf wrote:
tronos wrote:
do a blind test..get somebody to fix the head at random and you tee off blind. LOL the only way to remove mental barrier.
I guess so. Will have to test it again this weekend practice before my game to see if its really psychological or not.

Really hope its the former though. Else if its really a result of a low swing speed as mentioned by lee, I'll have to work more on increasing my swing speed.

Also check your shaft. If your shaft is mid-kick point or high kick-point, the compounds the problem of launching a low lofted driver head.

Today, I just put into play my 9.5 degree driver for the first time. Worked out well. It is however, paired with a Stiff flex Ahina shaft, rather than the X flex GD Tour AD shaft, so the shaft with one flex softer helped me launch ti properly.
Gotta bring it to the fitter's to have that driver shaft checked after my practice on Saturday before my game on Sunday though. I really hope its psychological as I'd started my first drives with a pear-shaped, old TaylorMade FireSole Ti 9.5 Driver and I was shooting missiles with it.

So technically speaking, I should be shooting missiles with my Nike VR 9.5 since its pear-shaped all the same.

Thanks for the advice lee, will get that shaft checked as well! Beer
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:10 am

Lee36328 wrote:
slinger wrote:
Lee36328 wrote:
Hi Newtogolf,

That is an interesting anecdote, thanks for sharing.

A couple of observations if I may.

Firstly, shanking is defined as:

"What Is It?
Actually, shanking isn’t at all the insidious, terminal, career-ending disease that most golfers believe. It’s just a heeled shot with an iron. That’s right. If you examine your golf clubs, you’ll find that there are two areas of the clubhead that can be used to hit your golf ball. One of them is large and flat—the clubface. The other is small and round—the hosel—and connects the clubhead to the shaft.

If you hit the ball with the heel of any of your irons, the ball will carom off to the right (for you right-handed players) at an alarming angle, and always, it seems, toward trouble. It has nothing to do with the face being open. A shank can be hit with a closed, open or square clubface. This is an important point because if you mistakenly think this is a face angle problem, then you won’t be successful in solving it."

Since the hosel with the driver is high on the club head and situated behind the club face, it is impossible to hit the ball with the hosel of the driver. For that matter, it's impossible to shank with wood or hybrids either. All these clubs have no offset typically, so hosel-ball contact won't occur.

Instead, when the ball is going straight right with the driver, it's more a matter of impact with an open club face. If it goes straight right, it's a push.

When you tried to square up the club face, you "hit hockey shots" as a result.

Without knowing your swing path, swing speed, speed and launch angles, I can't be absolutely sure, but based on what you described, this is what I infer.

9.5 degree loft is too low for your swing. You are unable to launch it properly. 10.5 degree is a better fit.

When the loft is too low, combined with a low swing speed, the launch angle is too low and you get "hockey" shots. When you open up the club face to try to get more loft, the open club face causes the ball to go right.

When you change to a higher lofted driver head, it matches your club head speed better, and the launch angle increases to a point where the ball launches nicely,

I have a friend who swings at above 105 mph. When he hits my 10.5 degree driver, the shot imply balloons. When he hits his 8.5 degree, the shot starts really low and keeps climbing. When I hit his driver, the ball starts low, stays low, does not carry very far, and rolls out a lot.

Cheers.

I have a 9.5 degree which I can hit, but I have to focus on hitting up to increase the launch angle or else it won't launch properly.



[img][/img]





Lee, i just couldnt help it......... too funny

just kidding hor......

You're right, the article is funny.

In the case of newtogolf, the technical explanation of the incorrect use of the term 'shanking' both necessary and relevant in order to explain what is actually happening to the driver with the low loft (pushing, NOT shanking), in order to explain to him why he can launch his 10.5 degree but not his 9.5 degree.
Yes, that explanation on shanking cleared things up on the REAL meaning of shanking.

I guess my grandmother introduction probably made it kinda funny as it reminds folks of that joke. ROFL ROFL
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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:06 am

shimizu.toruk wrote:
wilkang wrote:
I've retired my Nike VR...reason being that the head weight is too light.
Unless you wanna fit it with a 70g and above shaft or rather a broom stick. Laughing Laughing

Now that's a interesting note...I was always under the impression that the Nike VR heads are slightly heavier compared to the other Nike Drivers. I've tried a Nike Machspeed 10.5 (non black) driver and the head feels non-existent.

One thing I realized, when I tee of with a 9.5 driver, my address position needs to be slightly behind compare to teeing off with a 10.5 to compensate for the difference in loft angle without changing the height of the tee. I guess this is to try and catch the ball during upswing on impact.

Bro Wilkang, just out of curiosity, what driver are you using now that you're done with your VR?

ST

I started off playing the square drivers...from SQ to Machspeed...10.5 to 9.5.
I thought the VR driver head will be heavier, best results i got was coupled with Diamana BB 70g.

Now i have switched to Callaway Octane Tour 8.5 Razz Razz Razz

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PostSubject: Re: Psychological or purely a matter of bad fundamentals?   Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:57 am

Nice! I tried a Titleist 910 D2 recently and just love the feel of the head weight, but still recovering from sticker shock after seeing the price tag affraid
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