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Derek
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PostSubject: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:07 pm

Hi all, just starting this thread to consolidate questions people might have about the USGA handicap system.

Please post here and I will do my best to answer.

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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shimizu.toruk
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:12 pm

I'll start the ball rolling :-)

For a start, is there a difference between SGA-issued and USGA-issued handicap cards?

Is one valued more over the other?
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:17 pm

What is t differential?

Tks!
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:10 pm

shimizu.toruk wrote:
I'll start the ball rolling :-)

For a start, is there a difference between SGA-issued and USGA-issued handicap cards?

Is one valued more over the other?

The SGA has a licence from USGA to operate the USGA handicapping system. SGA in turn licences its members to issue and maintain USGA handicaps.

Hence, all members of SGA, be it ordinary, i.e. clubs that own a golf course, e.g. NSRCC, OCC, etc ... or associate, i.e. "estateless" clubs, e.g. mygolfkaki, golf allianze etc., operate and issue USGA handicaps.


_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:13 pm

pushslice wrote:
What is t differential?

Tks!

I believe you should be referring to differentials calculated based on Tournament (or T) Scores.

In essence, tournament scores have a higher impact on a players handicap if he/she shoots consistently lower than his declared handicap.

A player could have a handicap index modified based on his tournament scores that will be lower than if just using the standard formula of recent games

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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shimizu.toruk
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Location : Somewhere overlooking MBGC...

PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:32 pm

Derek wrote:
shimizu.toruk wrote:
I'll start the ball rolling :-)

For a start, is there a difference between SGA-issued and USGA-issued handicap cards?

Is one valued more over the other?

The SGA has a licence from USGA to operate the USGA handicapping system. SGA in turn licences its members to issue and maintain USGA handicaps.

Hence, all members of SGA, be it ordinary, i.e. clubs that own a golf course, e.g. NSRCC, OCC, etc ... or associate, i.e. "estateless" clubs, e.g. mygolfkaki, golf allianze etc., operate and issue USGA handicaps.


Got it. Thanks!
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BigblackGoof
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:39 pm

How does the clubs or SGA calculate our handicap? I vaguely remember its based on the top 20 holes that we played, regardless of which game these holes are achieved...

Is it true that if you do not submit your scores regularly, your hcp index will be reduced? I was posted overseas for a year plus and i was surprised that my hcp index went from 15 to 10...

Thanks in advance.
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:46 pm

BigblackGoof wrote:
How does the clubs or SGA calculate our handicap? I vaguely remember its based on the top 20 holes that we played, regardless of which game these holes are achieved...

Is it true that if you do not submit your scores regularly, your hcp index will be reduced? I was posted overseas for a year plus and i was surprised that my hcp index went from 15 to 10...

Thanks in advance.

For players with more than 20 scores, the handicap index is an average of the lowest 10 differentials from the 20 most recent games.

Most golf clubs which own a golf course will impose penalty scores for members who play on their own course but fail to submit a scorecard for that round.

Also, for a handicap to be considered active, at least 1 score card needs to be submitted every 6 months.

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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pushslice
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Join date : 2009-12-26

PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:01 pm

derek, ahhh i got it. In differentials, you mean actual/recorded score minus the PAR score for the course.

does the course rating play a role?
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:06 pm

btw MGK has a new website. Pretty stylish

and I can run a "peer review" of posted scores by mgk members.

I see that Duval S has stopped submitting scores since Nov 2010...hmmmmm
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:11 pm

pushslice wrote:
derek, ahhh i got it. In differentials, you mean actual/recorded score minus the PAR score for the course.

does the course rating play a role?

Yes, course and slope rating are both crucial.

The course rating indicates the score that a scratch player (Handicap 0) is expected to play on that course. It is tee specific, hence higher course ratings as you move up from white to black.

The slope rating is an approximation of how increasingly difficult the course is as the players handicap increases. The standard value is 113. Courses with slope ratings higher than 113 imply that that course get progressively harder for higher handicaps.

To illustrate, 2 examples.

On a course that has a Par of 72, Course Rating of 72.0 (blue tee) and slope rating of 113. A score of 73 will result in a differential of 1. A score of 90 will result in a differential of 18.

On a course with Par 72, Course Rating of 72.0 and a slope of 140, a score of 73 will result in a differential of 0.8. A score of 90 will result in differential of 14.5.

Differential Calculated as:

(Gross Score - Course Rating) x 113
----------------------------------
Slope Rating

The 10 best differentials are then averaged and multiplied by 0.96 to obtain a players USGA Handicap Index.

Thus players who are shooting 90 most of the time from blue tees in most courses in Singapore are not 18 handicappers, more like 13-14 handicappers.

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:21 pm

Derek wrote:


Thus players who are shooting 90 most of the time from blue tees in most courses in Singapore are not 18 handicappers, more like 13-14 handicappers.


*ahem* Mloy...you hear that

24 handicapper...my a$$

_________________
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PRGR EGG Spoon 15* MRC Fubuki Alpha 70S
Adams Super Hybrid XTD 19* MRC Fubuki AH R
Adams A12 Pro 23* GD Tour AD UT85 R
Callaway X Hot Pro 5-PW PX95 5.5
Titleist SM4 50*, 54*, 58* DG Spinner
Scotty Studio Select 2012 Golo 33"
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:45 pm

eiji wrote:
Derek wrote:


Thus players who are shooting 90 most of the time from blue tees in most courses in Singapore are not 18 handicappers, more like 13-14 handicappers.


*ahem* Mloy...you hear that

24 handicapper...my a$$

and mine too Razz
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:39 pm

bump

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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BigblackGoof
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:48 pm

Thanks Derek...
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mirage
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:55 am

Some very newbie questions which I can't find the answers in this forum Embarassed :

1) for the 5 X 18 holes scorecard requirement for local clubs, must the scorecards be from the same year or can span over a few years?
2) can the scorecards be from the same course?
3) who can countersign the score cards?

Thanks for any replies! Very Happy
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beehome
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:02 am

2) no need same course

3) ur fellow flight mate
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sly21498
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:17 am

Hi there mirage:

1. Best to submit a min of 1 scorecard monthly but generally the system will keep it for a year. For the system to generate an index. It needs the min 5 X 18 holes scores or 10 X 9 holes scores, best to have more. Scores will lapse over a period of time. I cant recall this, over a 6 months period I think.
2. Scorecards actually can be from anywhere as long as it is USGA rated, same course is fine.
3. Ur fellow flight mates but It is the responsibility of each individual golfer to submit their probable score. So even if it is not countersigned, the club will have to accept the submission.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!!

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mirage
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:23 pm

Thanks beehome and sly21498 for the info! So I assume USGA rated courses in Singapore are those listed in the SGA website only?
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renode
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:27 pm

This is a very good thread to explain and clarify the USGA handicap system. Thanks.

Actually I think handicap workshops conducted by clubs would explain and cover this portion as well.
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:21 pm

Hi Guys,

To answer the questions:

1) For the 5x18h (or 10 x 9h or combination) scorecards requirement, the purpose of these scorecards is to generate a handicap index for you. The handicap index is not assigned based on your performance during the courtesy round. As such, they should be relatively recent. Different clubs will have different definitions of recent, but within 6 months is accepted by almost all clubs. Some clubs will accept up to 1 year, however, beyond that is pushing it.

Also, the scorecards need not be from local courses, as long as they are rated USGA courses, i.e. they have a Course and Slope Rating assigned to them. Thus, the vast majority of full sized golf courses in Malaysia, Bintan and Batam are acceptable as well.

2) The scorecards can definitely be from the same course, as long as USGA rated.

3) Scorecards are normally signed by somebody who played in the same flight as you. However, for the purpose of score posting for generating and updating your handicap index, this is not a absolute requirement (as long as the club is able to provide a method for members to review each others scores, also know as peer review). Golf is a game based on integrity, clubs will accept scores submitted by members on face value.

4) All full sized golf courses in Singapore are USGA rated, the non-rated courses are the executive and short courses, i.e. Mandai, Jurong Exec, NSRCC Exec, Green Fairways, Tanglin, etc

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:07 pm

To update some replies on queries on USGA systems on other threads in this one

------------------------------------------------------
Hi timang84,

I am not sure what you mean by the non-coach way to get PC and Handicap. But just want to help clarify a few things.

Firstly, Golf Handicaps are not issued by Golf coaches. PCs or Proficiency Certificates are issued by coaches, academies or golf clubs. However, please note that PCs are not equal. Some confer playing privileges (at golf clubs), some do not. NONE are universally accepted. Also, as PCs are a Singaporean thing, they will not be accepted overseas.

USGA Handicaps are issued and maintained by Golf Clubs, who are licensed by the national golf association (in our case SGA - Singapore Golf Association) and the national golf association is in turn licensed by the USGA, who owns the USGA Handicap System inclusive of the Course and Slope Rating system. USGA Handicaps, as well as handicapping systems used in other regions, e.g. CONGU, are accepted globally. However, some clubs will restrict play if your handicap is too high, usually in the interest of safety and pace of play.

With regards to the swing test at MBGC, it costs $10.70 and is valid for 1 month. However, it is only recognised at MBGC. Likewise, swing tests at other clubs will only be recognised at the club that issues it.

---------------------------------------------------------



_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:08 pm

Question about Elite Solutions

-----------------------------------------------------

Elite Solutions is a UK based company that offers Handicap Maintenance Services. However, they are not an official golf club, as stated by themselves on their site. Also, they are not listed as a club on the English Golf Union. I have written to them to check if a handicap maintained with them can be viewed in the Central Database of Handicaps maintained by the English Golf Union.

However, they do claim that their handicaps are recognised in the UK and worldwide. Currently, MBGC accepts handicap cards from this company. This may be subject to change if Elite Solutions cannot prove that they are officially licensed to issue CONGU Handicaps. I am not sure if other clubs in Singapore accept their cards, but I think that is the case for now.

Assuming that Elite Solutions has a license to issue handicaps (possibly through a tie up with a golf club that is licensed to issue one), then essentially the player has a Handicap issued under the CONGU system used in Great Britain and Ireland. This is still considered an official handicap and will allow the player entry to play socially at any golf course (membership requirements and other R&R aside).

The issue comes about with entering tournaments. Most tournaments in Singapore stipulate the need for a handicap. Some are strict about USGA, some accept any handicap. Just be clear about the R&R for tournament entry beforehand, especially if you hit a magical shot and get a hole-in-one, then realise that you have been disqualified over something silly like not meeting the entry requirements for the tournament (the club will normally give it to you, the insurance company paying out is likely to investigate in more detail).

In summary, Elite Solutions handicap is currently accepted. The system used is the CONGU system. For social play, no problem at all. For tournaments, read fine print and inform organiser beforehand.

As a comparison, golfers who maintain their handicaps with Singapore registered golf clubs can be found in the National Handicap Book (link below) on SGA website. SGA is also an official golf association registered with USGA. So absolutely no doubts about official status.

Hope this answers your questions.

------------------------------------------------

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:05 am

Another thread transferred for reference

----------------------------------------------------

Hi People, just to translate what the scores above mean in terms of handicap differentials

Ponderosa Blue: Course Rating: 71.4 Slope Rating: 127

Ponderosa Red: Course Rating: 71.0 Slope Rating 127

Course rating refers to the score that a scratch golfer (i.e. Handicap 0) is expected to shoot from that tee box. Slope rating is a gauge how incrementally difficult it is for the higher handicap golfer to play the course. The standard slope rating is 113, i.e. A course that is equally easy for the high handicap as it is for the scratch golfer to play to his or her handicap.

So the formula for calculation as follows:

Gross Score - Course Rating = Gross Differential

Gross Differential x Standard Slope / Slope Rating = Calculated Differential

e.g. Using mloy's 90

90 - 71 = 19 (Gross Differential)

19 x 113 (Standard Slope) / 127 (Ponderosa Red Tee Slope Rating) = 16.9

So final differentials used to calculate for Handicap Index for the 4 of us will be

Derek: 10.3
ZX: 13.9
mloy: 16.9
TS: 25.4

These numbers are pretty different (and almost always lower) than just taking your gross score and subtracting the Par of the course to estimate your handicap.

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: USGA Handicap Related FAQ   Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:02 pm

Thanks Derek for all the clarifications and the example used.

Wed beer at SSN?

Beer
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