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golflog
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PostSubject: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:50 pm

More than a year ago, my friend and I registered for golf lessons at an academy in Sin Ming Ave. It was a 10 lesson beginner course than would eventually lead us to our PC. Our coach however, took almost a year to complete 10 lessons. However, after finishing our PC test late last year, we did not hear from our coach again. Eager to attain the PC, we tried continuously to chase for our PC (be it via facebook, phonecalls and SMS) but to no avail.

After months of numerous attempts, we finally got him to hand us our PC today. Here's the part that we find unjust:
1. He wrote the date of issue as 01/11/2011 instead of 04/03/2012 which means that the PCs have at most 2 months of validity.
2. When questioned regarding the date of issue, he insisted that the date should follow the last round of golf that we played with him and even threatened to put an earlier date if we insisted further.
3. He claimed that we did not press him for our PCs after our last game and therefore we shouldn't blame him regarding the date of issue. This was regardless of the fact that we DID try countless times to attain our PCs and it was him who delayed the issuing of this document with excuses like the cards are not ready and he misplaced our photographs.

Hence, we would like to seek advice from the members of this forum to help us in our next stage of decision making. What are the steps that we should take, and what actions can be taken against our former golf coach?

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Aloyboy
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:04 pm

Hmm. Maybe u can sue them? Btw wat golf academy Issit? Let's us know so we grians won't fall for it.
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Begbie
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:22 pm

For every alleged incident involving two parties, both sides should be able to voice reasons and provide explanation. Imo its not right to name parties involved when its only one side voicing it nor we condone such unethical practices...

I am not sure how it is done, but I understand most teaching pros are accredited by SGA. U may wanna inform them abt this b4 going public.
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alvin7379
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:31 pm

Actually... U need not be so concern with the PC... The fact that ur former coach of such credentials only meant that the PC he issued will not be much recognized anyway..

There are plenty of excellent coaches in this forum... Shorthitter, Tendy, Justin etc just to name a few... U shd approach them for a course to get your handicap card.. Which is the actual 'certifcate' that golf courses recognized and approve for admission into their golf courses..

As for your former coach... Let's just say that he is the handful of bad sheep that put a bad name to teaching pros...
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:33 pm

Hi golf log, welcome to the forum
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golflog
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:59 pm

Begbie wrote:
For every alleged incident involving two parties, both sides should be able to voice reasons and provide explanation. Imo its not right to name parties involved when its only one side voicing it nor we condone such unethical practices...

I am not sure how it is done, but I understand most teaching pros are accredited by SGA. U may wanna inform them abt this b4 going public.

I understand. Therefore, i did not explicitly mention the name of my golf coach as well as the company/group he is under. my aim is not to defame him or anything but to seek justice as I feel that we've been shortchanged. In fact we were planning to raise this issue to CASE but we are not sure if we are in fact making a mountain out of a molehill. Should we contact SGA first like you suggest?

@alvin7379 thanks for your advice sir. My friend and i are planning to move on to a handicap too. however, do we need a valid PC throughout our handicap course in order to play on the green? If so, how much does it cost to get our PCs renewed, preferably not by the same coach we were under.

@Duval_S thank you.
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guy013
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:24 pm

I don't know about yours but when I took my PC at Keppel club it has no expiry. I only took my handicap test about 3-4 years after my PC was issued.
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FelixTeh
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:41 pm

What is your objective of wanting the PC?
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:57 pm

Hi golflog, if you wish to obtain and maintain your handicap with my golf kaki, please send me a PM.


_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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jtek
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:56 pm

Well another cheater coach happen at Bishan... excused me for saying this "well that range is just full of cheater"...

My first coach was there too... 10 lesson course but take 06 months to complete 5 lessons then he MIA... Change number change hosue sold car!!! Cannot be found anymore...

Then happen to see him recently in MBGC, he just smile and say hi... %$&$&#$^

Not that I have prejudice but just heard too many bad things happened with the coaches in Bishan Range... Think we got to boycott Bishan Range to tell the operator that they had too many cheater coach there and will damage the range name...

Anyway, some of you may not like my words but it true encounter and I hope to prevent more bros here got into the same situation as myself...
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alvin7379
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:42 pm

golflog wrote:

@alvin7379 thanks for your advice sir. My friend and i are planning to move on to a handicap too. however, do we need a valid PC throughout our handicap course in order to play on the green? If so, how much does it cost to get our PCs renewed, preferably not by the same coach we were under.

Golf courses do not recognize PC other than their in-house pro's certification. Hence the so call PC u have from bishan will not be able to gain u access into golf courses anyway.

If u undergo a course which targets a handicap card.. The pro will be able to sign u into the course. There are also other alternatives like MBGC when u just needa pay $10 swing test prior to admission.. Or the JB Courses..

Take ur focus away from the PC which in my oponion is just another pc of useless document that teaching pro use to squeeze juice out of new golfers. The true purpose of a PC course is to allow new golfers to understand basic swing fundamentals and golfing rules and etiquette. You would have got ur money worth if u can achieve the above... Not getting the PC Cert...

Many new golfers have been mislead to think that a PC is COMPULSORY prior to getting a handicap... Badly mis-informed... It goes to show that your previous pro is just plain irresponsible in explaining these to the students..

Focus understanding more on the requirement and trust someone with better credentials... No point complaining over the bad experience.. Will get u nowhere...

A good coach will help u appreciate and enjoy the game better... Not bog u down with an expired PC... U can meet up the other friendly GRians during our regular gatherings and find out more.. Cheers Smile

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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:52 pm

Wah chippy! So impressive!!!!

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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:55 pm

chippy can apply for colored nick liao....





must be the dinner he had last nite....
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alvin7379
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:03 pm

He dunno yet... The scariest people are not the unscrupulous teaching pros...

It's those blood sucking golfing kakis u needa be wary of!!! Of cos I cannot be saying its SLINGER, KIAN, DUFFY, ASAHI etc etc lah right???? What a Face
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:07 pm

I think for any newbie, do talk to our pros here....if not mistaken, we pretty much hv north south east west covered.....


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golflog
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:17 pm

Hi all, thank you for all your advice and comments. I think suing is not an option as we do not have any hard evidence against him (the coach) since most conversations are verbal and he doesnt reply to our text messages anyway. Furthermore, he is still unreasonably adamant that he is not in the wrong, at all, or at least he acts that way in front of us. He even waved a thick stack of unissued PCs proudly to show us we are not the only ones. Apparently, he has scammed quite a number of students who have already given up on their PCs.

@ alvin, true that we should not be bogged down by our expired PCs. but to close this issue, we will be dropping a mail to SGA to tell them about our bad experience with this particular coach. Hopefully, they will look into it and such scams do not happen to others.

.. i believe he is a sole black sheep in the bishan golf range (hopefully) and that other coaches there should not be judged unfairly because of him..

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jtek
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:20 pm

Its true... dun need PC to get HCP...

I end up didn't have PC and go for hcp test... and get my HCP already...

But my score card still lousy... ha ha ha
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beehome
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:51 pm

some of the posts here r getting funny. I like the friendly banter. quite busy later but will make time to meet up with u guys.
As for golflog, just forget the bad episode abt ur PC. Move on and look forward to meeting new ppl in GR n enjoy golf n life.
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wilsonang
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:08 pm

Hi gloflog,

I been thru the same experience with you. I had the same 10 session course to get a PC but only stopped at lesson 6. I had a business trip and I told the coach. He told me after the trip call him when I am back.

Apparently, call no answer, sms no answer... In the end I gave up and look for another coach...

Maybe you want to PM me the details, and we can email SGA together?

Not to get back anything but to prevent some black sheep to spoil the enthusium of new golfers.
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sly21498
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:59 pm

Hi golflog, generally you can attain any pc card when you take lessons with any pro. But its best to get a valid one. Check with the intended pro wether they are part of the SGA associated group(s). You can see the valid link from
SGA.http://www.sga.org.sg/Membership/Members/tabid/183/Default.aspx
By doing so, this will ensure you get proper maintenance and eventually get an official Handicap Index soon. Maintenance fee too maintain pc/hcp status varies though.
Cheers!! Smile

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alvin7379
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:20 am

PC nowadays also got Maintenance??? scratch

good $$$ leh... Laughing
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samT
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:51 am

I think its good to bring this issue, and some related ones up so that newbies need not go thru some idiotic misconceptions.

1) What is a PC?
To my knowledge, PC is a temporary "cert " that only a club can issue so that its members can play and sumbit scorecards leading to a proper hdcp. If the club delegates the issuance to its tenant academy or coaches, the PC is only likely recognised by the club, not any other clubs. So plse dun believe any coach who tells you abt getting a PC that no club recognises.

2) Provisional hdcp
There is absolutely no such thing. SGA dun have it, no clubs have it. So plse ask whoever tell you to take a provisional hdcp what is it for? Which club recognise it?

3) Hdcp test
Again, there is no such thing. Hdcp is calculated by your series of scores. No test can calculate your hdcp.

4) Courtesy round
Ok, this one is tricky. Strictly speaking, courtesy round has nothing to do with your hdcp. However, a club do reserve a right to verify that its members have at least basic understanding to conduct himself on course properly, and to verify that the member has basic golfing skills. This latter reason is why you need to submit at least 5 scorecards prior to the courtesy round so that the club can verify the calculated hdcp from the scores, and verify against your skills. But most clubs are not looking for a strict pass or fail courtesy round, given the intent of the session. So, if a coach says you need to take a courtesy round with him or her, plse ask which club he is representing. If the club does not recognise the coach, dun do it.

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nrafee
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:08 am

samT wrote:
I think its good to bring this issue, and some related ones up so that newbies need not go thru some idiotic misconceptions.

1) What is a PC?
To my knowledge, PC is a temporary "cert " that only a club can issue so that its members can play and sumbit scorecards leading to a proper hdcp. If the club delegates the issuance to its tenant academy or coaches, the PC is only likely recognised by the club, not any other clubs. So plse dun believe any coach who tells you abt getting a PC that no club recognises.

2) Provisional hdcp
There is absolutely no such thing. SGA dun have it, no clubs have it. So plse ask whoever tell you to take a provisional hdcp what is it for? Which club recognise it?

3) Hdcp test
Again, there is no such thing. Hdcp is calculated by your series of scores. No test can calculate your hdcp.

4) Courtesy round
Ok, this one is tricky. Strictly speaking, courtesy round has nothing to do with your hdcp. However, a club do reserve a right to verify that its members have at least basic understanding to conduct himself on course properly, and to verify that the member has basic golfing skills. This latter reason is why you need to submit at least 5 scorecards prior to the courtesy round so that the club can verify the calculated hdcp from the scores, and verify against your skills. But most clubs are not looking for a strict pass or fail courtesy round, given the intent of the session. So, if a coach says you need to take a courtesy round with him or her, plse ask which club he is representing. If the club does not recognise the coach, dun do it.


Thanks SamT for the very clear explanation.

http://www.mygolfkaki.com/Handicap/GettingMyHandicap.aspx
This is the flow from Mygolfkaki.

it shows that you should get a PC so that you can play in OCC and marina bay, in order for you to submit your 5 x 18 hole score card.

However i choose to do swing test in MBGC does it mean i can skip the PC? there is of course a theory workshop, which you need to pay $30.

http://www.mygolfkakiacademy.com/Programs1.aspx

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samT
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:42 am

Interesting qn. If OCC recognises the "swing test ", i think there is defintely a shortcut here. ;-)

And more interestingly, i actually skipped mentioning abt mgk "swing test ". I really dun know any other club that does it. But the big qn is if mgk undertakes the "swing test " to clear someone on course, i think mgk also undertakes the legal responsibility should smtg happens.
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beehome
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PostSubject: Re: PC SCAM   Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:08 am

PC is like PDL for driving licence.
HDCP is like driving licence.

When 1 wants to take up driving, what is the purpose? To drive a car legitimately = with Class 3 lah! Why hold PDL for 1,2 or many yrs?

If want to drive but don't want to get Class 3, then choices r limited eg..JB, Mandai Exe.......

What to do, this is Singapore lah. Every club wants to see hdcp.
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