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AC
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:05 am

No Birdman, putt or chip so hard the ball roll over the flag to a distance away ..... happen a lot of times at horizon hills with the green speed 12 and above
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:09 am

From a rules perspective Birdman is correct. The flagstick must be out or tended while ball is on green.

Off the green is your choice.

From a chipping point of view, always see what the flagstick is made of first, wooden ones versus fibreglass. The wooden ones tend to bounce the ball out more.

I would rather the flagstick out, makes the hole bigger to my eye. Beer
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:12 am

shorthitter wrote:
I would rather the flagstick out, makes the hole bigger to my eye. Beer

I agree... which is why my miss is all that more painful.

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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:44 am

shorthitter wrote:
From a rules perspective Birdman is correct. The flagstick must be out or tended while ball is on green.

Off the green is your choice.

From a chipping point of view, always see what the flagstick is made of first, wooden ones versus fibreglass. The wooden ones tend to bounce the ball out more.

I would rather the flagstick out, makes the hole bigger to my eye. Beer

Thanks for the confirmation SH.

Interesting view SH brought up. Yes, I do agree that flagstick material counts. Rebound factor off the metal ones is high, and just as bad are the makeshift bamboo ones.

To each their own I guess, but don't more pros leave the pin in than have it out? I guess the pros have more confidence and finesse in their ability to lag their ball close to the hole, or in, with a chip. As an amateur, I have more margin for error I guess with the pin in as a backstop.

And there is value I think in leaving the pin out especially if the ball is rolling towards the right or left half of the hole and not directly towards centre. The ball has possibly more of the hole to fall into.

With the pin in, the hole is less than half its diameter, eveidenced by how very often only the bottom half of the ball sits in the cup when the pin gets in the way. This could cause a deflection to either side when the ball approaches the hole from off center.
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:49 am

Birdman wrote:
Technospaz wrote:
I've had several birdies and par-saves thanks to the flag being in the hole. If not the ball would run way past. So, for me, I'd like the flag in the hole Smile

I second that.

I've even seen someone hit a shot that was supposed to sail way past, and the flag caught andwrapped itself around the ball like a baseball glove, the ball fell right beside the hole.

What luck!


Tell me about it.....when I saw this shot by the cat woman, I Thot Ho say Liao.
......ball wrap in the flag, come down straight down for a 1 inch putt for putt.

Hiaz......why bring up such sad memory!?
Surprised

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Dan5
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:51 am

Make more putt or chip with flag in the hole when the ball is on the fringe cos the flag can stop the ball. Speed control is not like the good player, can judge to the hole nicely, usually tend to hit it harder.....IMO confused
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:53 am

AC wrote:
No Birdman, putt or chip so hard the ball roll over the flag to a distance away ..... happen a lot of times at horizon hills with the green speed 12 and above

Lol, sorry to hear that.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I think that it is also a penalty if your ball hits the flagstick, or even your opponent's ball while it's on the green. So you might not be able to "nonchalantly" put the flagstick perpendicular to your putting line in future, guarantee three putt score. Very Happy

I do wonder if it's also a penalty for hitting any other thing on the green.. towel, clubs, glove, putter cover... most of all.. what if your ball rolls over another person's marker?

Shorthitter, could you please elaborate since you've weighed in already? Very Happy

Cheers!
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:53 am

Hmm for me I prefer flag out and placed on the ground perpendicular, just behind the hole.

It acts as a back stop for my fringe chips/putts. Just a personal preference.

If however it is my opponent that is chipping, I will put the flag perpendicular infront of the hole, between his line of putt.

Try it next time.. it works!
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:24 pm

Birdman wrote:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I think that it is also a penalty if your ball hits the flagstick, or even your opponent's ball while it's on the green. So you might not be able to "nonchalantly" put the flagstick perpendicular to your putting line in future, guarantee three putt score. Very Happy

I do wonder if it's also a penalty for hitting any other thing on the green.. towel, clubs, glove, putter cover... most of all.. what if your ball rolls over another person's marker?

Shorthitter, could you please elaborate since you've weighed in already? Very Happy

Cheers!

If you are putting or chipping from OFF the green and you hit opponents ball, no penalty.

If you are on the green and you hit opponent ball then is a penalty.

There is no penalty for hitting ball marker.

At any time in the game if you hit YOUR OWN equipment (or caddy or yourself) which includes your buggy it is a penalty.

If you lay the flagstick on the green and you still hit it (even though it is laying down) it is a penalty. Beer
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:25 pm

shorthitter wrote:
If you are putting or chipping from OFF the green and you hit opponents ball, no penalty.

Approach shot too, right?
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duffader
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:29 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
If you are putting or chipping from OFF the green and you hit opponents ball, no penalty.

Approach shot too, right?

Macham you can see from where you are hitting your approach..... Razz
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:33 pm

If you drive your buggy over an opponent ball on the fairway is it a penalty?
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:39 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
shorthitter wrote:
If you are putting or chipping from OFF the green and you hit opponents ball, no penalty.

Approach shot too, right?

no penalty, but you must put your opponents ball back to as close a position as it was, and play yours from where ever it stopped.

Even if your opponents ball goes in the hole, you must take it out and put back where it was.. (as close as you can).
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:41 pm

buweeza wrote:
If you drive your buggy over an opponent ball on the fairway is it a penalty?

No penalty but not very nice... Very Happy, they get to drop it.

If you run over yours, different story. Beer
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buweeza
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:55 pm

Garylin21st: Please see reply from the Pro. NO PENALTY.


1. Last Qn (promise): If your ball is in a real bad situation in the bunker (e.g. deeply, deeply entrenched into the lip), can you declare unplayable? Then, take 1 penalty and reposition it?

2. Another Last Qn (this one is really really last..): If bunker is flooded after rain... do you get a free relief if ball goes in?

3. Okay... Dead SERIOUS. Final Question (GRAND FINAL): Let's say you hit a bad shot, you turn around and you notice that your flight mates are sniggering. Highly likely they were cursing you when you stepped up to the tee. Or lagi best, they pretend to sneeze etc. Can you slap them with 1 penalty each and re-shoot your tee-shot?
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freedrop
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:29 pm

buweeza wrote:
Garylin21st: Please see reply from the Pro. NO PENALTY.


1. Last Qn (promise): If your ball is in a real bad situation in the bunker (e.g. deeply, deeply entrenched into the lip), can you declare unplayable? Then, take 1 penalty and reposition it?

2. Another Last Qn (this one is really really last..): If bunker is flooded after rain... do you get a free relief if ball goes in?

3. Okay... Dead SERIOUS. Final Question (GRAND FINAL): Let's say you hit a bad shot, you turn around and you notice that your flight mates are sniggering. Highly likely they were cursing you when you stepped up to the tee. Or lagi best, they pretend to sneeze etc. Can you slap them with 1 penalty each and re-shoot your tee-shot?

1. You can declare your ball unplayable any place on the course, except in the water hazard. Just pay one stroke penalty and follow the usual rules on penalty drop. So yes, you can declare your ball unplayable if it's deeply entrenched into the bunker lip.

2. If the bunker is flooded with rain (casual water), you can drop the ball on dry part with no penalty, but must be INSIDE the bunker, and no nearer to the hole. If the whole bunker is flooded and no dry part, then drop INSIDE the bunker with least amount of water (maximum relief), no nearer to the hole. Otherwise, declare unplayable and take one stroke penalty and drop outside the bunker under usual penalty drop rules.

3. Dead SERIOUS. Don't play with that kind of flightmates again.





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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:31 pm

buweeza wrote:
Garylin21st: Please see reply from the Pro. NO PENALTY.


1. Last Qn (promise): If your ball is in a real bad situation in the bunker (e.g. deeply, deeply entrenched into the lip), can you declare unplayable? Then, take 1 penalty and reposition it?

2. Another Last Qn (this one is really really last..): If bunker is flooded after rain... do you get a free relief if ball goes in?

3. Okay... Dead SERIOUS. Final Question (GRAND FINAL): Let's say you hit a bad shot, you turn around and you notice that your flight mates are sniggering. Highly likely they were cursing you when you stepped up to the tee. Or lagi best, they pretend to sneeze etc. Can you slap them with 1 penalty each and re-shoot your tee-shot?

1) Yes but you must either drop in the bunker, or go all the way back to where you hit the last shot from.

2) Again yes but you must drop in A bunker.

3)Sadly no... Seve used to be guilty of this gamesmanship, one of his competitors gave him a box of throat lozenges on the tee before he teed off.
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:34 pm

[quote="freedrop"]
buweeza wrote:
Garylin21st: Please see reply from the Pro. NO PENALTY.

Otherwise, declare unplayable and take one stroke penalty and drop outside the bunker under usual penalty drop rules.

Even you take unplayable you must drop INSIDE the bunker....
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:34 pm

asahi wrote:
Birdman wrote:
Technospaz wrote:
I've had several birdies and par-saves thanks to the flag being in the hole. If not the ball would run way past. So, for me, I'd like the flag in the hole Smile

I second that.

I've even seen someone hit a shot that was supposed to sail way past, and the flag caught andwrapped itself around the ball like a baseball glove, the ball fell right beside the hole.

What luck!


Tell me about it.....when I saw this shot by the cat woman, I Thot Ho say Liao.
......ball wrap in the flag, come down straight down for a 1 inch putt for putt.

Hiaz......why bring up such sad memory!?
Surprised


Oh Ya !!!!!!!!!! I remember that one. That was so hilarious. You should have seen the look on your face...Priceless ROFL

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freedrop
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:38 pm

1.) If the ball is stuck in the bunker lip, or in a flooded bunker, and you declare it unplayable, you need not drop in the bunker. You can :

a. Play the ball from where it was originally played. Meaning go back to where it was originally played.

b. Drop the ball, no closer to the hole, two club lengths from where the ball is unplayable.

c. Keeping the point of the unplayable lie between you and the hole, you may go back as far as you want/need and drop the ball along that point.

So in any case, you need not drop the ball in the bunker. Unless the bunker is so huge and long that it streches back to where you originally played the ball.

Tiger Wood did that once. He putted his ball from the green into a greenside bunker. Instead of playing his next bunker shot, he declared the ball unplayable, and put his ball back on the green where he originally putted, and played his next shot under one stroke penalty.

The trick is : Rule 28 says you can declare your ball unplayble anywhere on the course (except water hazard). And although bunker is a hazard, it's NOT a water hazard. So you can declare unplayable when your ball is anywhere in the bunker, even on perfect lie, and take advantage of the penalty rules.














Last edited by freedrop on Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:45 pm

freedrop wrote:
1.) If the ball is stuck in the bunker lip, and you declare unplayable, you need not drop in the bunker. You can :

a. Play the ball from where it was originally played. Meaning go back to where it was originally played.

b. Drop the ball, no closer to the hole, two club lengths from where the ball is unplayable.

c. Keeping the point of the unplayable lie between you and the hole, you may go back as far as you want/need and drop the ball along that point.

So in any case, you need not drop the ball in the bunker. Unless the bunker is so huge and long that it streches back to where you originally played the ball.


Which is why i stick to posting only in humour section nowadays.......

28/10
Ball Dropped Outside Bunker Under Option Requiring Drop in Bunker

Q.In stroke play, a competitor deems his ball unplayable in a bunker and, purporting to proceed under Rule 28b or 28c, drops a ball outside the bunker and plays it. What is the ruling?

A.In this case, Rules 28b and 28c require that a ball be dropped in and played from the bunker. Generally, if the ball is played from outside the bunker, the penalty should be disqualification for a serious breach of Rule 28, unless rectified under Rule 20-7c. However, if the position of the ball after it is dropped out of the bunker is not substantially different from what it would have been if the competitor had invoked the stroke-and-distance option under Rule 28a, he incurs the penalty stroke prescribed by Rule 28 and an additional penalty of two strokes for a breach of that Rule, rather than disqualification.
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:50 pm

buweeza wrote:
Garylin21st: Please see reply from the Pro. NO PENALTY.


1. Last Qn (promise): If your ball is in a real bad situation in the bunker (e.g. deeply, deeply entrenched into the lip), can you declare unplayable? Then, take 1 penalty and reposition it?

2. Another Last Qn (this one is really really last..): If bunker is flooded after rain... do you get a free relief if ball goes in?

3. Okay... Dead SERIOUS. Final Question (GRAND FINAL): Let's say you hit a bad shot, you turn around and you notice that your flight mates are sniggering. Highly likely they were cursing you when you stepped up to the tee. Or lagi best, they pretend to sneeze etc. Can you slap them with 1 penalty each and re-shoot your tee-shot?

Once the tee shot is taken, its counted. No penalty to your flight mates. Since you can't slap them with a penalty........ just slap them, literally lor. Razz

Btw I like your humour.

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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:54 pm

buweeza wrote:
Garylin21st: Please see reply from the Pro. NO PENALTY.


1. Last Qn (promise): If your ball is in a real bad situation in the bunker (e.g. deeply, deeply entrenched into the lip), can you declare unplayable? Then, take 1 penalty and reposition it?

2. Another Last Qn (this one is really really last..): If bunker is flooded after rain... do you get a free relief if ball goes in?

3. Okay... Dead SERIOUS. Final Question (GRAND FINAL): Let's say you hit a bad shot, you turn around and you notice that your flight mates are sniggering. Highly likely they were cursing you when you stepped up to the tee. Or lagi best, they pretend to sneeze etc. Can you slap them with 1 penalty each and re-shoot your tee-shot?

1. Can, but not sure on the repositioning. Think it's within one club length no nearer the hole (but must still be within the bunker), which is the general ruling (I think) for a declared unplayable lie.

2. Cannot say with certainty, but should be free drop with the same conditions as above, unless the whole bunker is flooded to the edge.

3. Unfortunately gamesmanship is legal, and you can't slap a penalty on the offending player or take a mulligan. Seve Ballesteros and Walter Hagen were noted for their gamesmanship, jingling coins in pocket, the unripping of velcro on the glove, slight cough or sneeze, moving just within vision, deliberate showing of the wrong numbered iron on a par three, it's all legal.
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:00 pm

Lol, many replies to your 3 loaded questions.

Best go with Shorhitter's answer, after all he teaches and plays for a living.

Always good to have a professional around to clear the air.

Thanks Shorthitter, your time is very much appreciated.

Now back to the humour section... ROFL
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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:43 pm

birdman got say like never say.

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PostSubject: Re: Flag in or out?   Today at 6:23 am

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