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 Releasing the clubface

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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Mon May 07, 2012 4:52 pm

TourSwing wrote:
For those who are still confused ...


Ah... TourSwing, the pics give me an answer.

Clubhead outside of hands, more body rotation equals a quieter passive release.

Clubshaft in line with forearms results in less body rotation and a more active hands release.

Swing
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Mon May 07, 2012 5:48 pm

Ah, Ben Hogan.

Talking about release, hands, rolling, and Ben Hogan, what did his left hand do through impact?

Look at this.

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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Mon May 07, 2012 6:24 pm

Lee, that picture is incomplete without looking at what ben hogan did with his torso/shoulders on and after impact. It should be viewed hand in hand. By just showing this pic, it may give the appearance that he only release with his hands.

but if we see hogan's black and white cut scene on the bradley hughes video in the first page. Gives bit better picture of what he meant by releasing.

Note: anyone who reads this thread need to take it all with a grain of salt, after all we're just hackers albino (well except for tourswing, bcoz he broke 80 but fr white ahahahaha)
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Mon May 07, 2012 6:25 pm

Birdman wrote:

...
Sergio Garcia - If Woods is Papa Bear and Senden is Baby Bear, then Garcia is Mama Bear. He pushes the clubface straight back but doesn't pronate his forearms as late as Woods or as early as Senden to a toe up position at 9 o'clock where the shaft is in line with his left forearm. Top of the backswing, his forearms are between his ears and right shoulder joint for the most neutral swing plane. Through the hitting zone, it seems to me that his release is a combination of body pivot and a touch of active hands.

Ricky Fowler - After seeing Freaky Fowler's swing in slow motion, I was gobsmacked. Pretty much the same as Woods through the early part of the takeaway, pushing straight back with little pronation of the forearms all the way to the top of the backswing. At 9 o'clock, his clubface is shut and clubhead way outside the hands like Woods (Garcia and Senden on the other hand have the shaft and clubhead in line with their forearms). Flattest swing plane of the lot with his forearms actually below his right shoulder joint and the clubface still shut. Through the hitting zone, the release is similar to that of Woods, more passive. Because of the camera angle, I'm not sure if Fowler is laid off to the left at the top, and is it my imagination that he swings more left than Garcia who is more down the line? I'm wondering cos with that shut clubface position at the top, if Fowler were to swing more down the line like Garcia, I'm thinking it would result in a massive hook.

Dive in with your comments and thoughts all. cheers

Birdman,

Good to hear about your epiphany.

About your question regarding Fowler and Garcia:

Garcia on the left, Fowler on the right.

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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Mon May 07, 2012 6:28 pm

pushslice wrote:
Lee, that picture is incomplete without looking at what ben hogan did with his torso/shoulders on and after impact. It should be viewed hand in hand. By just showing this pic, it may give the appearance that he only release with his hands.

but if we see hogan's black and white cut scene on the bradley hughes video in the first page. Gives bit better picture of what he meant by releasing.

Note: anyone who reads this thread need to take it all with a grain of salt, after all we're just hackers albino (well except for tourswing, bcoz he broke 80 but fr white ahahahaha)

Granted, but that picture was produced by Hogan in his book to illustrate what the left hand did. I am putting it here for the same reason, if a bit cheekily... Laughing
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Mon May 07, 2012 7:02 pm

Lee36328 wrote:
Birdman wrote:

...
Sergio Garcia - If Woods is Papa Bear and Senden is Baby Bear, then Garcia is Mama Bear. He pushes the clubface straight back but doesn't pronate his forearms as late as Woods or as early as Senden to a toe up position at 9 o'clock where the shaft is in line with his left forearm. Top of the backswing, his forearms are between his ears and right shoulder joint for the most neutral swing plane. Through the hitting zone, it seems to me that his release is a combination of body pivot and a touch of active hands.

Ricky Fowler - After seeing Freaky Fowler's swing in slow motion, I was gobsmacked. Pretty much the same as Woods through the early part of the takeaway, pushing straight back with little pronation of the forearms all the way to the top of the backswing. At 9 o'clock, his clubface is shut and clubhead way outside the hands like Woods (Garcia and Senden on the other hand have the shaft and clubhead in line with their forearms). Flattest swing plane of the lot with his forearms actually below his right shoulder joint and the clubface still shut. Through the hitting zone, the release is similar to that of Woods, more passive. Because of the camera angle, I'm not sure if Fowler is laid off to the left at the top, and is it my imagination that he swings more left than Garcia who is more down the line? I'm wondering cos with that shut clubface position at the top, if Fowler were to swing more down the line like Garcia, I'm thinking it would result in a massive hook.

Dive in with your comments and thoughts all. cheers

Birdman,

Good to hear about your epiphany.

About your question regarding Fowler and Garcia:

Garcia on the left, Fowler on the right.


Comparing the two release styles of Garcia (on the left) and Fowler (right) in motion side by side may give us more insight.

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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Mon May 07, 2012 9:40 pm

Very interesting Lee, thanks for the comparison. Very Happy
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Lee36328
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Tue May 08, 2012 10:29 am

Birdman wrote:
Very interesting Lee, thanks for the comparison. Very Happy

My pleasure. We're fortunate to have (somewhat!) affordable video processing computing power at our finger tips.

Lee36328 wrote:
pushslice wrote:
Lee, that picture is incomplete without looking at what ben hogan did with his torso/shoulders on and after impact. It should be viewed hand in hand. By just showing this pic, it may give the appearance that he only release with his hands.

but if we see hogan's black and white cut scene on the bradley hughes video in the first page. Gives bit better picture of what he meant by releasing.

Note: anyone who reads this thread need to take it all with a grain of salt, after all we're just hackers albino (well except for tourswing, bcoz he broke 80 but fr white ahahahaha)

Granted, but that picture was produced by Hogan in his book to illustrate what the left hand did. I am putting it here for the same reason, if a bit cheekily... Laughing

Here are some more photos. Video in Ben Hogan's days tend to be blur, too slow to capture some details. Incidentally, since the hands are the fastest moving body part through impact, that's often blurred in video. Photos tend to do better.





The sequence photo above puts his left hand positions in the drawing below into context.



The left hand move (ulnar deviation to radial deviation - see below) after impact which brings the club up rapidly, TGM has a term called 'swivel'. I need to do more of it. The mind thinks, 'The ball is gone, can relax now.' So I get lazy with the left side post impact. But actually, it adds speed through impact. Try some air swings with and without the swivel and the difference in the 'whoosh!' can be heard.


Footnote:
To use a more technical term, the left wrist goes from ulnar deviation to radial deviation. The degree of deviation esp ulnar deviation may vary according to style.

Photo below shows right wrist; substitute with left wrist.
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PostSubject: Re: Releasing the clubface   Today at 6:27 am

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