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 MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...

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X-Man
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:05 am

Hmmm what was the saying by a famous detective?

"Elementary My Dear Watson...." Smile

Actually it did took me about 15 mins.... Drew some assumptions and everything started to fall into place.

Cheers


Last edited by X-Man on Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:07 am

yah...basically if you start putting up a table it becomes easy... this is just like a sudoku in words

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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:21 am

these test are trying to bring kids away from being book smart (memorizing sample questions & answers, standard solutions to standard questions etc)

I always hate exams that are open book, the questions really needed the person to have read and understood almost the whole book (the open book is to reference back the complex equations).

In math, we always fall into the trap of 'follow the steps' without really understanding the steps. This is why i suck in math. All know how to do differentiation, but few understand what derivative is.
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ironfist
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:22 am

wah my brain hurts.. i'm hopeless at riddles. haha
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Ssquirrel
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:29 am

Wah.. the ppl in this forum very smart, can solve all these tough questions.. unlike me.

However, I think MOE is going in the right direction though; teaching the kids how to think logically more than just plain memorizing/rote learning.

My niece is also taking her PSLE this year. My sis and some other parents attended some talk organized by the school to meet some of the guys from MOE who set the papers. They said they want to teach more logic and how to think about arriving at the answer by drawing diagrams and understanding. Even if they get the answer wrong by wrong calculations, but show correct logic in their diagrams, they'll get some marks. Today we have calculators and spreadsheets to help with calculations, but if we don't understand the logic behind it, then we cannot really progress and understand the big picture.

For example; when I was in school many many moons ago, and learnt fractions. When it came to division of fractions, I was taught to multiply by flipping the numerator/denominators; but why I don't understand why.. just memorize that "formula". But my niece can draw diagram and show me the logic behind it (which I forgot la). So if you grow up learning how to think logically, in future such "problems" will be easily solved.

Parents like my sis are slightly perturbed because they have to relearn all this new logic/models to be able to help their kids.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:33 am

tronos wrote:
these test are trying to bring kids away from being book smart (memorizing sample questions & answers, standard solutions to standard questions etc)

I always hate exams that are open book, the questions really needed the person to have read and understood almost the whole book (the open book is to reference back the complex equations).

In math, we always fall into the trap of 'follow the steps' without really understanding the steps. This is why i suck in math. All know how to do differentiation, but few understand what derivative is.

wait till they tell you that the differentiation they teach you is only partial 'truth' as it is simplified.

Or you start doing calculus on vectors....

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chillipadi
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:58 am

sunny wrote:
Yes you can unless it is stated in the qn. If algebra is not allowed, you need to use models and parts which are actually diagramatic representation instead of abstract. Accordingly to educational psychologists, most 12 yr olds are still within the concrete operational stage using piaget' cognitive models and thus algebra is discouraged as an teaching tool as those in concrete operational stage will have limited ability to understand abstract algebric models

Algebra, any method, etc, as long as logical, which exam markers can understand, the kids get the marks.....but then again it depends on the markers.

I personally go for models, they call it Heuristic or something like that. Easier than algebra. Some questions really can't be solved by algebra but can be solved easily by models.
But frankly I agree that Primary Maths getting real tough and the poor kids are feeling the weight on them......the elites do excel, but what about those who can't perform just as well? They are really holding on to a thin rope or a thin thread?

I'm no psychologist but I hope no kids get too worked up.......
Many do, some sadly committed suicide and others ended in institutions....... a fact that hopefully be in the past.

LOVE THE LITTLE CHILDREN.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 1:13 am

actually unless the question stated a specific method or disallow specific method(s), every correct answer MUST get full marks regardless of markers.

If not it can be challenged.

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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:19 am

The fact that these kids struggled badly sends a message to MOE, this exams takes them to the edge. Its also a sign of sad tale. Next year, parents will be rushing to put their child to learn more, which include secondary school syllabus. There is cause and effect, if MOE wants this, they have to accept the facts that they part of the reason why parent continue to push children. The education system is pushing towards punishing our children rather than helping them to learn.
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mervyntan
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:06 am

sunny wrote:
tronos wrote:
these test are trying to bring kids away from being book smart (memorizing sample questions & answers, standard solutions to standard questions etc)

I always hate exams that are open book, the questions really needed the person to have read and understood almost the whole book (the open book is to reference back the complex equations).

In math, we always fall into the trap of 'follow the steps' without really understanding the steps. This is why i suck in math. All know how to do differentiation, but few understand what derivative is.

wait till they tell you that the differentiation they teach you is only partial 'truth' as it is simplified.

Or you start doing calculus on vectors....

vector calculus can be easy if you know how... it is when things start getting messy with n-dimensional vector spaces... actually i used to hate vectors until i started to grasp what was actually going on, then i found them not too bad, although i still prefer not to do them.

til today, i still think mathematicians and statisticians are weird people.

anyway, i think that the education system should focus more on getting kids involved in the subject and developing an interest in learning more than anything else. no point developing all these logic etc if the kid has no interest to learn in the first place.
anyway, i don't work for MOE, i have no kids yet, so i have got no vested interest in this. wait til my kids are primary school age, then ask me again. hahaha. i might home-school them if things continue this way!
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:12 am

Vector integrals are easy? Obviously you are no electrical engineer, physicist nor mathematician. Wait till i show you the true colours of it

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mervyntan
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:16 am

sunny wrote:
Obviously you are no electrical engineer, physicist nor mathematician.

you also not mah! lol! War
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:20 am

Actually i am

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mervyntan
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:20 am

oops. sorry. i thought ur full time job is forum moderator with part time job as pro golfer.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:35 pm

learn all the complex equations, forgot them all as they are all useless now

found out much latter that your prowess in MS Excel is much more important. Looking back, i have no idea how i pass all those exams. Jolt cola + no sleep can do wonders when cramming the whole year syllabus in one night. lucky its all memorizing sample questions and solutions. Imagine they pull that stunt at Uni, i bet only 1% of the class will pass.

then again can anyone calculate how a 11 degree launch and 2500 rpm spin is the optimal conditions
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Another complaint ......Student 's father claimed that one of the chinese passages was from one assessment book....so cry FOUL....Not fair....What happen if someone cannot afford or have not read the book????

Walau!!!! Incredible !!!!

If I can recommend to MOE, just give that student A or distinction lah....give the student A all the way till Uni.....Then reality will sit in.....on how the student will fare in Uni....and later in life....

This is macam golf, somebody claim that Tiger win because he is familiar with the course..!!!
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TheFocalPoint
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:11 pm

sunny wrote:
actually unless the question stated a specific method or disallow specific method(s), every correct answer MUST get full marks regardless of markers.

If not it can be challenged.

Speaking from the viewpoint of a Pri 6 Maths Teacher, I think you are mistaken about this. This was a 5 mark question, and if someone answered the way you did, you'd get 1 out of 5. No method marks at all, just 1 mark for the answer.

Throughout the Primary School syllabus, pupils are taught various approaches and heuristics to solving maths problems. None of the PSLE questions this year required anything outside the syllabus (such as algebra) to solve. Fact.

We receive the same complaints from the same ignorant bunch of parents every year, hoping that their children will be given a 2nd chance at the paper, or leniency in marking.. Of course, in most cases, MOE doesn't even entertain these complaints, which is the right attitude. From a personal standpoint, i think Singaporeans jump at every opportunity to complain, and then some.. This, i think, has gone too far.

The paper this year was indeed tough, but we NEED it to be. If life were so simple, then God wouldn't have invented bunkers, thick luscious rough, or 220m Par 3s.

Think about it.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:55 pm

are you very sure that they will make it wrong? what is wrong with the method?

unless they state specifically that algebra is not allowed then i would rest my case. If not a correct answer is a correct answer regardless of chosen methods.

MOE has been encouraging a thinking culture and i am sure it would not have gone backwards and said if it is not what we taught then it must be wrong when the answer is obviously correct.

True?

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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:03 am

lol i always got scolded back then for using algebra when i was supposed to be drawing models instead..
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:17 am

sunny wrote:
are you very sure that they will make it wrong? what is wrong with the method?

unless they state specifically that algebra is not allowed then i would rest my case. If not a correct answer is a correct answer regardless of chosen methods.

MOE has been encouraging a thinking culture and i am sure it would not have gone backwards and said if it is not what we taught then it must be wrong when the answer is obviously correct.

True?

I mark PSLE Maths Papers.

I rest my case.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:33 am

Then i can see that education in sg is going backwards and punish ppl with higher ability. This is unfortunate.

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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:36 am

I think an aim of education is to be able to get the solution using the method they want u to use, not free for all.

For example a person who knows how to operate and go hiking with a GPS may be seem as one with a higher ability but when the GPS breaks down he will be lost if he does not know how to use the 'old school method' map and compass

If the students are really of a higher ability, then models will be chicken feet to them.

Only when u are older, they dont care how u get to the solution.
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:43 am

I thought learning was supposed to be fun. I'll glad I'm out of the system...

I ran as fast as I could the moment I saw a chance and never looked back. I'm happier now where I am...
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:55 am

luckily i am out from school
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PostSubject: Re: MOE's joke to PSLE's student and their Parent...   Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:57 am

I was at McDees the other day and saw several schoolkids studying frantically away. They had really thick textbooks and were scribbling madly. I could see the tension in their faces. This made me realize 3 things:

1. I'm glad to be out of school.
2. I think we barely apply 10% of what we learn in school in our daily working lives.
3. I feel sorry for the next generation as I think studying is going to get harder and more stressful.

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