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 Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque

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SigmaOne
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 6:45 pm

S70B wrote:
Chey, I tot it was done at a range. Use ur own flightscope might as well use TW13 on Xbox.

My friend use TW for 7i on cheat mode also oni max it out at 180m. Made fairways rock hard n super duper wind also no use. Think ur flightscope more ex that's why.

But anyway, ur topic is on shaft puring, flo etc etc etc but I oni see u cut n paste fotos from Internet. Might help if u can add in a little of ur vast knowledge to explain those pics n videos to the unschooled ones like me.

Presentation skills la. Much needed to generate your point across. All I'm reading now is 7i 195m, shoe spikes and petty coaches.

I am also putting in effort to contribute to this forum and helps golfers to better understand all the terms used in fitting and the club specifications. I do cut and paste from the net, i do some of my own videos too.

As a course marshal representing Golf Republic, u should be moderating instead of calling me a cheat. At the same time, u are implying Flightscope is a cheating monitor? I will forward this to the company and ask for a refund. At this point, can u clarify what have i done wrong here, be specific. If u think i am cheating, prove it and i will get out.

I hope Ms Moon and the rest of the moderators can take a look and let me know please. A big thank u.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:18 pm

I think if u r so free u shd spend some time or put in some effort to go brush up ur English. There's a huge difference between calling u a cheat and playing a comp game with cheat mode.

No wait, better still. U shd go check out an xbox, get some games then google for cheat codes. Mebbe u will then know what a cheat mode is.

I think if u r asking for a refund from Flightscope, better check ur own calibration too. If not big boo boo if they found it grossly off.

I dunno whether to laugh or cry at ur post.

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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:25 pm

S70B wrote:
I think if u r so free u shd spend some time or put in some effort to go brush up ur English. There's a huge difference between calling u a cheat and playing a comp game with cheat mode.

No wait, better still. U shd go check out an xbox, get some games then google for cheat codes. Mebbe u will then know what a cheat mode is.

I think if u r asking for a refund from Flightscope, better check ur own calibration too. If not big boo boo if they found it grossly off.

I dunno whether to laugh or cry at ur post.

U are just trying to discredit me and i get yr point. No need to play around with words. There is an implication from you. If u think i am misleading others, u can highlight them to me. If u are contributing to the thread, i dont see any. If u think my English is not good, u can pm me a tuitor. If u think i am cheating, u have to prove it. If u think my efforts are not appreciated, u can close the thread. If u think i am invading yr turf, u can try to kick me out. Anyway u are a moderater. U know the rules better than i do. Let see how then.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:46 pm

Damn, icons have 9 studs only.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:52 pm

jimmychoo wrote:
SigmaOne wrote:
I can play a lady flex, #7 dead straight, 195m, with 100% full concentration, 100% stress control management and anxiety, but it is no fun at all. It drains my energy away and i cant complete my 18 holes. Eg, last oct after my hole in one, i lost focus and immediately tee to OB.
If the clubs are purchased at the same price same model, everything same, why not get them all fitted? To take out the ??? from the equation, whats left is just me and me alone ( If i stop complaining abt the grass cutters and the wind, LOL )
Bro i am sorry if i did not read yr post correctly, really sorry. Hope u have a nice golfing days. Cheers
Well explained and share, thanks! But that 195m straight shot with #7 L Flex, I don't believe it Shocked Laughing
Don't bother to say sorry, we are all here to tcss, share value point or rubbish, just take it with a pinch of salt cheers

( Cantonese Version )
哇好嗮哩窝!! 失傳武功秘笈 五郎八卦棍... 果然向你盗.... ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL 天下無雙.....




Last edited by billi on Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:02 pm

Seb,

You are not the 1st nor the last who has crossed paths w me.

Be thankful I still have basic courtesy not saying anything bad about Sigmagolf openly.

If you need a tutor go find one yourself and dun be lazy.

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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:04 pm

billi wrote:
jimmychoo wrote:
SigmaOne wrote:
I can play a lady flex, #7 dead straight, 195m, with 100% full concentration, 100% stress control management and anxiety, but it is no fun at all. It drains my energy away and i cant complete my 18 holes. Eg, last oct after my hole in one, i lost focus and immediately tee to OB.
If the clubs are purchased at the same price same model, everything same, why not get them all fitted? To take out the ??? from the equation, whats left is just me and me alone ( If i stop complaining abt the grass cutters and the wind, LOL )
Bro i am sorry if i did not read yr post correctly, really sorry. Hope u have a nice golfing days. Cheers
Well explained and share, thanks! But that 195m straight shot with #7 L Flex, I don't believe it Shocked Laughing
Don't bother to say sorry, we are all here to tcss, share value point or rubbish, just take it with a pinch of salt cheers

( Cantonese Version )
哇好嗮哩窝!! 失傳武功秘笈 五郎八卦棍... 果然向你盗.... ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL 天下無雙.....

just one shot 195m drain u ? reminds me of those old hong kong chinese erotic ghost story..once the ghost take ur manhood u turn dead and wrinkled like prune.. lol.. keep on sharing.. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:17 pm

aiyo pple relax and chill... so much animosity in the public between ah mah and ah lian already. no need to brood any bad blood or start any wars. we are all here to learn from one another. no need to trade egos.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:31 pm

Begbie wrote:
billi wrote:
jimmychoo wrote:
SigmaOne wrote:
I can play a lady flex, #7 dead straight, 195m, with 100% full concentration, 100% stress control management and anxiety, but it is no fun at all. It drains my energy away and i cant complete my 18 holes. Eg, last oct after my hole in one, i lost focus and immediately tee to OB.
If the clubs are purchased at the same price same model, everything same, why not get them all fitted? To take out the ??? from the equation, whats left is just me and me alone ( If i stop complaining abt the grass cutters and the wind, LOL )
Bro i am sorry if i did not read yr post correctly, really sorry. Hope u have a nice golfing days. Cheers
Well explained and share, thanks! But that 195m straight shot with #7 L Flex, I don't believe it Shocked Laughing
Don't bother to say sorry, we are all here to tcss, share value point or rubbish, just take it with a pinch of salt cheers

( Cantonese Version )
哇好嗮哩窝!! 失傳武功秘笈 五郎八卦棍... 果然向你盗.... ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL 天下無雙.....

just one shot 195m drain u ? reminds me of those old hong kong chinese erotic ghost story..once the ghost take ur manhood u turn dead and wrinkled like prune.. lol.. keep on sharing.. cheers

lol!
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golfchowmk
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:37 pm

billi wrote:
Begbie wrote:
billi wrote:
jimmychoo wrote:
SigmaOne wrote:
I can play a lady flex, #7 dead straight, 195m, with 100% full concentration, 100% stress control management and anxiety, but it is no fun at all. It drains my energy away and i cant complete my 18 holes. Eg, last oct after my hole in one, i lost focus and immediately tee to OB.
If the clubs are purchased at the same price same model, everything same, why not get them all fitted? To take out the ??? from the equation, whats left is just me and me alone ( If i stop complaining abt the grass cutters and the wind, LOL )
Bro i am sorry if i did not read yr post correctly, really sorry. Hope u have a nice golfing days. Cheers
Well explained and share, thanks! But that 195m straight shot with #7 L Flex, I don't believe it Shocked Laughing
Don't bother to say sorry, we are all here to tcss, share value point or rubbish, just take it with a pinch of salt cheers

( Cantonese Version )
哇好嗮哩窝!! 失傳武功秘笈 五郎八卦棍... 果然向你盗.... ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL 天下無雙.....

just one shot 195m drain u ? reminds me of those old hong kong chinese erotic ghost story..once the ghost take ur manhood u turn dead and wrinkled like prune.. lol.. keep on sharing.. cheers

lol!

bro billi Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:22 pm

duffader wrote:
Damn, icons have 9 studs only.

The icon is fine. I have a pair myself. I just find that it is not as comfort. But still everyone has different feet, so there is no definite right or wrong and hard to prove. This is my personal research and experience with the few brands. The Puma has a model with only 7 spikes but feel extremely stable too. Generally the 10 spikes shoes are better. U can disagree, its ok as long as u like it.

Cheers Cheers Jump
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:01 pm

I did shaft puring and Flo before, not with sigmabyte.
A difference, yeah I think mentally is huge (no doubts), it boost confidence.

Here is the catch, my comfort club is my 4 woods. It has never gone through puring or flo before. they are doing ok and strucked well they are good off the shelf period.

My iron are all pured and flo-ed. If I grip and swing properly they are great. If not then well.. you are only as good as you weakest link. I can still hit my old cgb max ok and also MP 68. Of course there is emotional factor where I really like Miura look and its impact feeling.

If you decided to get your shaft pured and flo-ed I think personally it's more for piece of mind that you're equipment has been tuned and set to the best that you can get.

Then again, please take this comment with a pinch of salt cause it can also be I'm just a lousy golfer who can't tell the difference (same like sounds quality diff betwen Bower & Wilkins vs KEF vs Tannoy. You can tell only if you're can for most ppl maybe it sounded the same or worst compared to their PC speaker .. Very Happy ).


Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:37 pm

duffader wrote:
Damn, icons have 9 studs only.
Wah, icon liao. Ex leh. I still go cheap....wait for puma on discount. Hahaha.

Sry, OT liao.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:51 pm

jimmychoo wrote:

Don't bother to say sorry, we are all here to tcss, share value point or rubbish, just take it with a pinch of salt cheers
bro, if some ppl (really, just a handful enuf liao) thinks like you, we will learn much more. Then again, i think the silent majority already learnt much. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:18 am

I got 1 kaki, hits his 7 iron at the range to 170m quite consistently. On the course, possibly further considering non-range balls and including roll. But never measure because it would be too hard for me to accept as well.

But it was demonstrated several times, that on a 140m par 3 (which I use a 8 iron for), that he can also hit to the far end of the green with a 50 degree gap wedge.

And mind you, he's not a big or tall fella, and is also a high handicapper to boot.

Therefore, I'm wont be surprised if there are other monsters out there, that can hit a 7 iron to 195m as well. Maybe some people are just able to ignore laws of physics and really crush the ball. Wish I knew the secret tho. HELP
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:45 am

Chill out mates....so sad to see good tread went wrong way. We are here to share and learn, don't we?
Anyway...I have a friend who can crush pw for 150m with range ball, and his club is Honma with regular graphite shaft which literally feel like L flex. Just like bro Skitter, I won't be surprised too.
Hope we can keep sharing and learning together and keep the nice forum ambiance cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:56 am

dmateo wrote:
I did shaft puring and Flo before, not with sigmabyte.
A difference, yeah I think mentally is huge (no doubts), it boost confidence.

Here is the catch, my comfort club is my 4 woods. It has never gone through puring or flo before. they are doing ok and strucked well they are good off the shelf period.

My iron are all pured and flo-ed. If I grip and swing properly they are great. If not then well.. you are only as good as you weakest link. I can still hit my old cgb max ok and also MP 68. Of course there is emotional factor where I really like Miura look and its impact feeling.

If you decided to get your shaft pured and flo-ed I think personally it's more for piece of mind that you're equipment has been tuned and set to the best that you can get.

Then again, please take this comment with a pinch of salt cause it can also be I'm just a lousy golfer who can't tell the difference (same like sounds quality diff betwen Bower & Wilkins vs KEF vs Tannoy. You can tell only if you're can for most ppl maybe it sounded the same or worst compared to their PC speaker .. Very Happy ).


Cheers

This is exactly the point. Get the big ? Out of the equation. Min this can do is set yr mind at ease. I am not the only one doing puring n flo in Singapore. It is also done in many other countries, esp the US.

Regarding the 195m, it is not important at all. Let drop the #7 thing.

Usually a picture or video tells better than words. And it makes u think, rather than writing essays, too tiring and a chore for all out there to read. U can raise questions and I will try to answer as best I can ( replied to some aldy )

Sorry for the interruptions. I will try my best to post more related stuffs. Raise questions freely or pm me.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:58 am

samT wrote:
jimmychoo wrote:

Don't bother to say sorry, we are all here to tcss, share value point or rubbish, just take it with a pinch of salt cheers
bro, if some ppl (really, just a handful enuf liao) thinks like you, we will learn much more. Then again, i think the silent majority already learnt much. Smile

Silent doesn't mean consent my friend... they can just be tired, lazy, ignorant etc... and I won't go to the extend to say everyone has learnt a lot these videos.

But on a positive note its nice of Sebastian in making the move forward to share technicalities in this forum. As much as it being a fairly feeble effort , its indeed a good start. Pls do not stop sharing....

We have seen pros , fitters etc being flamed here.... so don't take it personally as you're not the first... and definitely not going to be the last...

You may learn from this incident to know that even when you make effort to post technical points here there will always be jest, cynism, insults etc that comes along with those who appreciates.... So hang tight and we hope to see more of your posts here .... good luck seb..


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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:19 am

I read with interest this thread, which snaked its way from a pitch by demonstration into one of provocation. It would have been avoided if the intention were clear from the beginning.

By having a clearer headline like the significance of FLO, torque, etc and demonstrating how it would impact the average golfers, one will likely get more hits and capture more eyeball and audience.

Now I just want to add my observation to this worthy cause of what the thread should originally have addressed.

Background

Please avoid using the words PU___ING as it is a SST trademark. FLO means Flat Line Oscillation, which in layman’s term means the part of the shaft which is the most uniformed and stable when clamped to a 5 inch vise and one that deflects in a “rather” straightline as opposed to one that wobbles in usually an oval movement.

USGA letter to club and shaft manufactuers 1990

USGA letter to club and shaft manufactures in 1999

if you read the above you will find that originally in USGA letter to manufacturers, there should be no significant difference to how a shaft should react. But by 1999, having tested most shafts in the market at that time, the USGA was convinced that tolerances vary and the letter in 1990 was superseded by one in 1999.

What it silently meant too was one cannot advocate that a shaft can perform a certain function like draw or fade as like in this original letter, a shaft has to be symmetrical and manufacturers have to work towards making shafts that “maintain tolerances which greatly minimize or eliminate asymmetries in twisting and bending”.

The study was in part mooted by a group of PCS pioneers, which include a Singaporean, Mr Danny Seng who started AGT a long time ago. To convince the governing bodies, they even built a swing robot to show the significance of the effects of shaft irregularities. Of course someone got the idea early and started a very business round identifying the “sweet spot” in golf shafts.

Is there significant in FLO or spining a shaft?

YES and NO. we have done testing on every shaft that we fit and we know which ones need special attention. On top of that we use a slightly different approach where 4 to 5 sections of the shaft is individually spined and then FLO. I am sure some who have seen this done will know it’s not the simplest of task.

More importantly….start from understanding and looking closely at the shaft profile to get a sense of what will fit which players. Most manufacturers have a 4 zone profile to explain how the shaft plays and a good fitter should be able to decipher that chart to greater advantage.

There are 2 sweet spots in a shaft - 4 to 6 inch from the lower hand at address and 7 to 9 inch from the tip of the shaft. Those are key areas to look closer when spinning a graphite shaft to create perfect harmonics.

Sales Pitch

If this is was sales pitch, I would add that “with proper shaft profile understanding and proper calibration, a golfer will be able to get optimized performance and superior feel”. Again this is a sales pitch and not my style, so please do not take it the wrong way.

Finally, there are several individuals out there that are the best in their business of shaft profiling. One of them is so good that most manufacturers send their shafts to him for independent assessment before they launch it in the market. with shaft profiling, it’s a little different, they have to profile the shaft from the inside and by doing so they can predict how the shaft will react when struck.

Hope it helps and have a great weekend everyone.

DGman

PS i have the distinction of serving on the ICG with Mr Danny Seng and many others, hence his pioneering work on shaft profile and calibration was a great revelation of doing it correctly.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:26 am

I have see exchanges, some good one, some stirring one (haha... I fall into here), some bad one, some very knowledgeable one, some coo coo one..... whatever it is, it show that all of us are concern and are contributing to this forum. We should be mature enough to accept all the good and bad, just like how we accept all our good and bad shot (with some curse of course Razz )

Let's go back to discussion, shall we?

I don't really uderstand the theory behind the kick point thingy from the picture shown,

1) Why a high kick point will bend a smaller angle but the low kick point will bend a bigger angle?
2) At impact point, the club head are always flipping up instead of deloft? Is there a different on the impact position (whether flipping or deloft) between a driver, FW and iron?

Oh the master has contributed some too..... but I still want to post this bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:44 am

Shoomaker....

there 2 constant. the equipment is constant and the golfer is constantly not constant.

if there is such a thing as a constant golfer (even at the highest professional level), top golfers will not miss the fairway or be able to hit the same distance hole-in-hole-out, week-in-week-out.

your question...

1. if you tend to swing through and you use a high kick point shaft versus another golfer who tends to hit down on a ball, both of you will give a different account of the impact experience. so which bends more cannot be ascertain unless we have a high speed camera to record this and what you experience is only one's feel.

2. unless you track every shot with a reliable launch monitor in real time, we cannot tell for sure what was the angle of attack on the impact. as explained in the opening, the golfer is never constant even at the highest level.

the best part is advance golfers react very quickly to different shaft weights and characteristic and some need only 2 to 3 shots to manipulate the results they need. in the distance past where there was only hickory shafts with a B+ swing weights, it was pure mastering of equipment. even up to the Nicklaus era, little was known of club fitting and whether its great significance in game improvement is up to everyone's interpretation.

DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:58 am

Quite predictable the way this thread turned out. But interesting, educational and certainly entertaining as usual. Drama-wise more engaging than an episode of 'Mad Men'.

SigmaOne, thank you for sharing, regardless of level of 'englund.' My englund osso not so gud, but can unnerstand you enuf edy, since you are discussing shafts and not grammar. As for distance, technical knowledge, etc, there will be the usual reaction spanning the spectrum of human nature and entrenched mindsets. It's only natural and to be expected.

Usually, the more it differs from established norms, the greater the potential advancement. So in plain englund, the more some people dun like ur posts, potentially the more valuable/useful what you have lor. Whether you are right or wrong, the spirit of sharing is noble.

My humble opinion, no offence intended.

Good day to all.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:40 pm

I like to be more clear on my intentions on this thread:

I was encourage by Ms Moon to contribute more in this forum from the position representing Sigma Golf Studio, rather than as an individual passionate crazy golfer.

I am not doing a sales pitch in this thread. I have another in the Sales and Promotions section where i post special offers as advised by the moderator.

I merely like to introduce some common terms regularly seen on clubs or not but important , (mainly on the shafts) so that golfers when doing a purchase be it off the shelves or from any fitters can be better equipped with the knowledge of what they are buying.

Some of our shafts are ordered in the US and are pre-pured by SST before delivery to us, and we are providing this as an alternative option to our clients who appreciate it. (So there is no infringement of trademark.

As for the integrity of the Flightscope launch monitor, i have wrote to the manufacturer to make a clearer statement or declarations on the technology used. Hopefully i can get the link on their website and paste it here.

I try to make this thread as simple as possible and again stress that the intention was to allow golfers to think and ask questions, then to explain the best i can. All the technicalities and info are all over the internet, but who really bothers to search and read. I am not claiming credits on these but merely provide a convenient access for all.

By now u should be quite tired of reading this post. Let me spend more time searching for pictures or photos or video. There is a saying that a picture tells a thousand words.

As for the dispute I only answer as he is a moderator. He came to my shop a week ago with his boss and i may have offended or embarrassed him with my brutally blunt comments. I have pm him to say i am sorry abt the incident in my shop but was firmly rejected. SamT has also pointed out my character flaw and i accept responsibility and had apologized to all in previous post be it who is right or wrong. Let me say this again, I AM SORRY.

Lastly I wish everyone a Happy Golfing Day, the weather is perfect Cheers Jump
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:54 pm

Hi, I guess you perhaps have misunderstood my intention on sharing. Try reading what I have wrote below again.

Here's what I have pm-ed...
Quote :
Hi, can u please consolidate yr was in wts thread? I really hope that u use gr as a platform to share more than pushing sales.


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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:10 pm

missmoon wrote:
Hi, I guess you perhaps have misunderstood my intention on sharing. Try reading what I have wrote below again.

Here's what I have pm-ed...
Quote :
Hi, can u please consolidate yr was in wts thread? I really hope that u use gr as a platform to share more than pushing sales.



Ah moon, simi si "yr was"? Don't understand leh..... Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque   Today at 4:06 pm

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Shaft Puring - Flo Alignment - Lie Angle - Kick point - Torque
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