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peace2903
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:05 am

THE LADY HAS SPOKEN & 3 CHEERS FOR MISS MOON - THE ORIGINAL MOD SINCE ...errrhhh... what was the original forum name? ...arrrghhhhh...
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:05 am

Ms Moon,

Given that I have that window, I would enforce the same ruling to the seller as per the previous treatment given to the indonesian seller. This is valid until the issue were amicable resolved by seller and proven otherwise.

I raised as we need the MODs to show strict and consistency for same fair treatment. If I am reported to sell a faulty items or failure to respect another buyer, I would have expected the same treatment irrespective whether I am here longer or not.

Fyi, I stated this as I have previously sell things and the next day where buyer requested refund and I offer without questions. Till today, seller and buyer remains friends and we still do chat.
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nientsu
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:07 am

peace2903 wrote:
MOD, I am really sorry but your comments has errors!

1) ChrisD post did not indicate NO REFUNDS.... he mentioned it in the SMS. (Or did I missed out on in his WTS post?).
http://www.golfrepublic.org/t19012-wts-game-improvement-device-golfsense?highlight=golfsense


Hi Peace

mentioning it on SMS means, he did mention it to the buyer. And if the buyer carries on with the deal, he must have full knowledge of what he is in for.
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jeffman88
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:07 am

IGT wrote:
jeffman88 wrote:
garylin wrote:
honestly I feel that there should be a refund. If someone bought my items (and I do sell computer products as well). If found faulty within the week, I'll do a refund and will do the exchange/warranty at my own expense. That is unless I found the item was tempered with or used wrongly.

In this case, it seems the product was already faulty upon sale (since 2/3 of the product was faulty). Even retail/shops do refunds within 7 days. (iirc there's a new act coming up to make this longer and compulsory for shops to do refunds).

Just want to be objective in this case, no offense to any bros. Will mods do some sort of control here? I understand that this kind of control is done in HWZ, VRZ and especially when there is a marketplace..

yups u r right! Ref: http://www.singaporelawwatch.sg/slw/index.php/headlines/12870-retailers-gear-up-for-lemon-law?utm_source=web%20subscription&utm_medium=web
Singapore's 'Lemon Law' was passed in Parliament 09 Mar 2012 to be enforced 1 Sep 2012.
Lemon laws refer to laws protecting consumers against defective goods that fail to conform to contract, or meet satisfactory quality or performance standards at the time of purchase, colloquially known as "lemons".

But not sure if it covers private transactions as it specifically refers to retailers.

Yes Bro, such law applies to registered business and company.

Taking this scenario for instance: If Tiger Woods sold his putter to Ernie Else, and later Ernie found out the putter cover already worn out and wanted to return and demand for refund. Tiger said he would talk to factory and get replacement. But Ernie can't wait coz he missed cut and had to leave early. Thus he pushed Tiger for cash. Then how? Follow which country's law? US or South Africa?

Answer: the country where the transaction took place? got prize or not? jocolor
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missmoon
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:09 am

@chrisD, personally from a friend standpoint (not speaking as mod nor admin), I wld prefer you to refund riverdeity cos the purpose of marketplace is not about importing and selling even if u don't earn a single cent. Just a gentle reminder, GR is about making friends, promoting golf and going out to have a great day golfing.
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:10 am

loserjo wrote:
@3131T yup my assupmtion and my opinion... I never instruct Chris to refund... But hearing both sides I voice my opinion...

Hearing both sides as in this thread? The actual hearing both side is when u r face to face with them. And Im 99% sure that when u r face to face with them, their stories will be different.

Your assumption of ChrisD making a profit outta it is not fair to him. U r bias against him. On the other hand, if ur comment is bias against RD, its not fair to him as well.

Wat Im trying to said all along is, we as a 3rd party, y do we wanna make assumption when we r not 100% sure wat is happening...

We can just suggest to them n hopefully ease the case rather than just making assumption just like adding oil to fire. Afterall, we r GRians.... Aren't u?


Last edited by 3131T on Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:11 am

nientsu wrote:
peace2903 wrote:
MOD, I am really sorry but your comments has errors!

1) ChrisD post did not indicate NO REFUNDS.... he mentioned it in the SMS. (Or did I missed out on in his WTS post?).
http://www.golfrepublic.org/t19012-wts-game-improvement-device-golfsense?highlight=golfsense


Hi Peace

mentioning it on SMS means, he did mention it to the buyer. And if the buyer carries on with the deal, he must have full knowledge of what he is in for.

Nientsu

The point that it is mentioned in SMS which is obvious that it is has been delivered and effectively sold and is a reactive action. The note of non-refundable is effectively state that I dont care whether you cry, huff or puff, you are screwed. This is not fair for a buyer. Unless a buyer has shown he offer alternatives and fair ones, he has an obligation to remediate.
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TheFocalPoint
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:13 am

Why did the chicken cross the road?












































To get to the other side.
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:14 am

missmoon wrote:
@chrisD, personally from a friend standpoint (not speaking as mod nor admin), I wld prefer you to refund riverdeity cos the purpose of marketplace is not about importing and selling even if u don't earn a single cent. Just a gentle reminder, GR is about making friends, promoting golf and going out to have a great day golfing.


Ms Moon,

Thank you for a fair point of view and judgement on the subject. Kudos to the admins.
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riverdeity
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:18 am

Khorkar wrote:
nientsu wrote:
peace2903 wrote:
MOD, I am really sorry but your comments has errors!

1) ChrisD post did not indicate NO REFUNDS.... he mentioned it in the SMS. (Or did I missed out on in his WTS post?).
http://www.golfrepublic.org/t19012-wts-game-improvement-device-golfsense?highlight=golfsense


Hi Peace

mentioning it on SMS means, he did mention it to the buyer. And if the buyer carries on with the deal, he must have full knowledge of what he is in for.

Nientsu

The point that it is mentioned in SMS which is obvious that it is has been delivered and effectively sold and is a reactive action. The note of non-refundable is effectively state that I dont care whether you cry, huff or puff, you are screwed. This is not fair for a buyer. Unless a buyer has shown he offer alternatives and fair ones, he has an obligation to remediate.


He only mentioned no refunds on monday 20/8 if you read the messages. Thats 2 days after I purchased it. As early as sunday, I had already told him I have had problems with the set. That was infact the first time I had used it as it ran out of battery when ChrisD left the range.
Like I mentioned, I was perfectly willing to accept a replacement but time is a factor here as I am leaving the country soon. Further more, after his disappearing act, I no longer wish to accommodate him and i do not feel in the least unreasonable demanding a refund here. The msges are there for all to see, im definitely biased in my writing but there is only so much you can twist your facts into.
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riverdeity
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:19 am

missmoon wrote:
@Khorkar, Given if you have one hour window to be a mod, what would you do?

@riverdeity, it is unfortunate that you have bought a lemon device fr chrisD via GR marketplace. I suggest if you are not open to have the faulty device replaced, you may have to seek proper help such as going to small claims tribunal to claim against chisD. We (mod and admin) will help by locking the thread. As part of the procedures, do note that both your accounts may have to be suspended while official investigation takes place until settlement has been achieved. let me know how you would like to proceed.

Regards,
Moon

Lets see what sean has to say about this. Im quite easy
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:23 am

riverdeity wrote:
missmoon wrote:
@Khorkar, Given if you have one hour window to be a mod, what would you do?

@riverdeity, it is unfortunate that you have bought a lemon device fr chrisD via GR marketplace. I suggest if you are not open to have the faulty device replaced, you may have to seek proper help such as going to small claims tribunal to claim against chisD. We (mod and admin) will help by locking the thread. As part of the procedures, do note that both your accounts may have to be suspended while official investigation takes place until settlement has been achieved. let me know how you would like to proceed.

Regards,
Moon

Lets see what sean has to say about this. Im quite easy

Is there a time limit to expect a for reply and conclude this matter?

- If no reply, action from mods?
- If yes reply, action from buyer?
- if unsatisfactory reply from buyer, the next action?
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missmoon
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:41 am

Khorkar wrote:
riverdeity wrote:
missmoon wrote:
@Khorkar, Given if you have one hour window to be a mod, what would you do?

@riverdeity, it is unfortunate that you have bought a lemon device fr chrisD via GR marketplace. I suggest if you are not open to have the faulty device replaced, you may have to seek proper help such as going to small claims tribunal to claim against chisD. We (mod and admin) will help by locking the thread. As part of the procedures, do note that both your accounts may have to be suspended while official investigation takes place until settlement has been achieved. let me know how you would like to proceed.

Regards,
Moon

Lets see what sean has to say about this. Im quite easy

Is there a time limit to expect a for reply and conclude this matter?

- If no reply, action from mods?
- If yes reply, action from buyer?
- if unsatisfactory reply from buyer, the next action?

Khorkar,

Mods may not have the perfect or standard approach for all sorts of situation including this case. This community is co-created by all of us here - everyone plays a part. Would you like to volunteer yourself to mediate this issue and ideally happy ending for both parties? Show us how it's done and perhaps we will use it as proven case study in the future.
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IGT
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:42 am

Interesting! A lot of learning here. Still can't get on bed for this; despite tomorrow morning tee-off.

I hv read the exchange of texts. At this juncture, i still remian NEUTRAL. And i am suggesting this as a resolution so ev1 can go to bed;

1/ To ChrisD: we r clueless what arrangement you have with the company but i figure if you plan to continue selling this product; as much as the company who wants sales, you should demand for better support. So, stay on top of this issue, talk to the company, clarify the situations and project the threats of losing more sales if the issue not resolved immediately and push themto take this case seperately.
At times, you have to lose the deals in order to keep the customers! So do everything in your power to help i.e. get the refund

2/ To Ash : Shit happens! We can't avoid but can do our part to reduce by being more cautious. Many times electronic stuff functions intermittently. I suggest you accept what ChrisD is trying to sort out for you - 1st is the refund, at worst accept the new working replacement unit.

Then, set up a round of golf, get familiar with the product and move on and live happily ever after.

OK?
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:49 am

missmoon wrote:
Khorkar wrote:
riverdeity wrote:
missmoon wrote:
@Khorkar, Given if you have one hour window to be a mod, what would you do?

@riverdeity, it is unfortunate that you have bought a lemon device fr chrisD via GR marketplace. I suggest if you are not open to have the faulty device replaced, you may have to seek proper help such as going to small claims tribunal to claim against chisD. We (mod and admin) will help by locking the thread. As part of the procedures, do note that both your accounts may have to be suspended while official investigation takes place until settlement has been achieved. let me know how you would like to proceed.

Regards,
Moon

Lets see what sean has to say about this. Im quite easy

Is there a time limit to expect a for reply and conclude this matter?

- If no reply, action from mods?
- If yes reply, action from buyer?
- if unsatisfactory reply from buyer, the next action?

Khorkar,

Mods may not have the perfect or standard approach for all sorts of situation including this case. This community is co-created by all of us here - everyone plays a part. Would you like to volunteer yourself to mediate this issue and ideally happy ending for both parties? Show us how it's done and perhaps we will use it as proven case study in the future.

Ms Moon,

My stand if I am allowed is not to request for perfection but mere consistency.

The mediation aim would be a refund. Unless it is achieved, buyer would have the right to decide whether ChrisD acc stays or disabled.

Buyer would be served with a warning likewise for having to incurred the issue in the 1st place.

Thats all I can added.
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scottycollector
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:50 am

nientsu wrote:
I am rather surprised why the buyers did not ask ChrisD what happens if their purchased product only works for, lets say, one day? Can he get his money back? If the answer is no, i am even more surprised why they can carry on with the deal? Walk away if you do not feel right.


This does not really accord with reality. If I follow this reasoning to its logical conclusion, are we saying that buyers and sellers on this forum should spell out every term and condition before each transaction? Firstly, some things do not have to be explicit, but rather, can be implicit. i think it is reasonable to say that when we buy something, the obvious condition is that the item must not be defective. If it is defective, then the buyer should be given the option of either a refund or a replacement, whichever the buyer prefers. The reason why many big companies have a policy of no refund, but replacement only, is because they have drafted this into their T&C to benefit themselves. We the consumers agree to such T&C because big companies have much greater bargaining power than we do, and we 'do not really have a choice'. This is not the case here and so the buyer should be given the option of a refund.

More importantly, the reality is that when ppl buy and sell on this forum, we do it to a large extent on the basis of "trust". One of the hallmarks of a forum / community is that there are "social" rules which govern the community - spoken, written or otherwise. These typically go beyond the usual legal rules (eg. caveat emptor). You may disagree with me, but i think one of the functions of mods is "social" policing. It is for this reason that many public forums ban offensive language, even though there may be no 'law' against it. So if a forumer is behaving in a way that goes against the social norms and expectations of a community, i think it is fair to expect the mods to take an active stance to address such behaviour.

It is for this reason that i agree with Khorkar that the mods should consider taking a position on this. We are not asking you to say who's right or who's wrong. But at least step up and facilitate the resolution of this. Citing 'caveat emptor' is too simplistic and ignores the social rules that binds and governs every community.

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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:54 am

missmoon wrote:
@chrisD, personally from a friend standpoint (not speaking as mod nor admin), I wld prefer you to refund riverdeity cos the purpose of marketplace is not about importing and selling even if u don't earn a single cent. Just a gentle reminder, GR is about making friends, promoting golf and going out to have a great day golfing.

sorry i didnt see this post. good job missmoon
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missmoon
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:03 am

Khorkar wrote:
missmoon wrote:
Khorkar wrote:
riverdeity wrote:
missmoon wrote:
@Khorkar, Given if you have one hour window to be a mod, what would you do?

@riverdeity, it is unfortunate that you have bought a lemon device fr chrisD via GR marketplace. I suggest if you are not open to have the faulty device replaced, you may have to seek proper help such as going to small claims tribunal to claim against chisD. We (mod and admin) will help by locking the thread. As part of the procedures, do note that both your accounts may have to be suspended while official investigation takes place until settlement has been achieved. let me know how you would like to proceed.

Regards,
Moon

Lets see what sean has to say about this. Im quite easy

Is there a time limit to expect a for reply and conclude this matter?

- If no reply, action from mods?
- If yes reply, action from buyer?
- if unsatisfactory reply from buyer, the next action?

Khorkar,

Mods may not have the perfect or standard approach for all sorts of situation including this case. This community is co-created by all of us here - everyone plays a part. Would you like to volunteer yourself to mediate this issue and ideally happy ending for both parties? Show us how it's done and perhaps we will use it as proven case study in the future.

Ms Moon,

My stand if I am allowed is not to request for perfection but mere consistency.

The mediation aim would be a refund. Unless it is achieved, buyer would have the right to decide whether ChrisD acc stays or disabled.

Buyer would be served with a warning likewise for having to incurred the issue in the 1st place.

Thats all I can added.

Khorkar,

I don't not agree to yr approach. Given marketplace which has such heavy traffic and massive volume of transactions per day, if all buyer has such rights over user administration, the mods and admin will have endless requests to activate and disable user accounts. not feasible.

Try again to propose another approach - think big picture this time.
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:09 am

Think big picture need to get big picture guy. Kk is a detailed person....
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:17 am

missmoon wrote:
Khorkar wrote:
missmoon wrote:
Khorkar wrote:
riverdeity wrote:
missmoon wrote:
@Khorkar, Given if you have one hour window to be a mod, what would you do?

@riverdeity, it is unfortunate that you have bought a lemon device fr chrisD via GR marketplace. I suggest if you are not open to have the faulty device replaced, you may have to seek proper help such as going to small claims tribunal to claim against chisD. We (mod and admin) will help by locking the thread. As part of the procedures, do note that both your accounts may have to be suspended while official investigation takes place until settlement has been achieved. let me know how you would like to proceed.

Regards,
Moon

Lets see what sean has to say about this. Im quite easy

Is there a time limit to expect a for reply and conclude this matter?

- If no reply, action from mods?
- If yes reply, action from buyer?
- if unsatisfactory reply from buyer, the next action?

Khorkar,

Mods may not have the perfect or standard approach for all sorts of situation including this case. This community is co-created by all of us here - everyone plays a part. Would you like to volunteer yourself to mediate this issue and ideally happy ending for both parties? Show us how it's done and perhaps we will use it as proven case study in the future.

Ms Moon,

My stand if I am allowed is not to request for perfection but mere consistency.

The mediation aim would be a refund. Unless it is achieved, buyer would have the right to decide whether ChrisD acc stays or disabled.

Buyer would be served with a warning likewise for having to incurred the issue in the 1st place.

Thats all I can added.

Khorkar,

I don't not agree to yr approach. Given marketplace which has such heavy traffic and massive volume of transactions per day, if all buyer has such rights over user administration, the mods and admin will have endless requests to activate and disable user accounts. not feasible.

Try again to propose another approach - think big picture this time.

Khorkar,

To your point on consistency.

Mods operate within a set of guiding principles. Members behave within a set of house rules. If all members behave the same, then mods can be consistent. Correct or not? But that's not the case in reality. Everyone is uniquely different which then makes the community interesting mah...


Last edited by missmoon on Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:22 am

missmoon wrote:

Mods operate within a set of guiding principles. Members behave within a set of house rules. If all members behaves the same, then mods can be consistent. Correct or not? But that's not the case in reality. Everyone is uniquely different which then makes the community interesting mah...

missmoon i actually like your style but you are incorrect here. all members may behave differently. but mods can still apply a set of rules consistently. I don't think khorkar is asking for the same robotic response in every situation. rather, applying a principled and consistent approach in every situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:46 am

scottycollector wrote:
missmoon wrote:

Mods operate within a set of guiding principles. Members behave within a set of house rules. If all members behaves the same, then mods can be consistent. Correct or not? But that's not the case in reality. Everyone is uniquely different which then makes the community interesting mah...

missmoon i actually like your style but you are incorrect here. all members may behave differently. but mods can still apply a set of rules consistently. I don't think khorkar is asking for the same robotic response in every situation. rather, applying a principled and consistent approach in every situation.

So far the mod team has been consistent with the approach in handling situations. The only difference I feel is the language and tonality. Also, We want to totally avoid the situation where mods get bashed online for being high-handed per the prev indo situation. Mods are rare and good sensible ones are even harder to find, so I would seek all members to help each other out on the forum and co-create a playground that u like to have.

Having said so much, it is right to have expectations but so that u all knows the mod team has put in all that they can to help. The yellow and orange nicks are doing many background tasks for the forum to make it functional and fun.
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Bangla123
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:03 am

Haha trying to regulate rules on the Internet. That's naive. Everyone knows that Chris D and his buddies are assholes( that's you im talking about wanna be "tour swing ") But that's life, he has absoloutely no need to refund you your money. It was a straightforward cash for product transaction. You paid for what you got. If you want refund or warranty perks.. Go to a retail store you moron.

Golf republic "mods" are not going to enforce anything . They simply can't afford to take this issue to court or enforce rules neither are they going to accept liability for things that go on in a public INTERNET forum.

You can shame him fr being a crook and he can sue you for libel . At the end of the day your simply a naive pansy ass student That complains like a pussy..and chris D is simply a dishonest wannabe internet salesman jackass

Hope it helps Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:08 am

Bangla123 wrote:
Haha trying to regulate rules on the Internet. That's naive. Everyone knows that Chris D and his buddies are assholes( that's you im talking about wanna be "tour swing ") But that's life, he has absoloutely no need to refund you your money. It was a straightforward cash for product transaction. You paid for what you got. If you want refund or warranty perks.. Go to a retail store you moron.

Golf republic "mods" are not going to enforce anything . They simply can't afford to take this issue to court or enforce rules neither are they going to accept liability for things that go on in a public INTERNET forum.

You can shame him fr being a crook and he can sue you for libel . At the end of the day your simply a naive pansy ass student That complains like a pussy..and chris D is simply a dishonest wannabe internet salesman jackass

Hope it helps Smile


Before you censor my post I would just like to say the GR mods have been doing a terrific job. I would know , as I have been kept in check by them many a time. Quick note to those that ask more of them. Stfu and volunteer to help out , I find complain queens disgusting

Hope it helps!
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PostSubject: Re: Buying an item from chrisD   Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:27 am

i like this bangla...

bottom line...

NEVER BUY ANYTHING FROM CHRISD...

HONESTLY, I HOPE HE GOES THE WAY OF JGOH AND DISAPPEARS...

personally, if he kicked the proverbial bucket, all the better la
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