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 Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?

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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:50 am

Often asked, is there any noticeable difference in terms of performance, softness or quality that deserves the price to be selling 2-3x more.
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:47 am

Khorkar wrote:
Often asked, is there any noticeable difference in terms of performance, softness or quality that deserves the price to be selling 2-3x more.

Good question. I guess the same isn't so much with the location of manufacture but rather with the quality control steps taken by the company. An item can be manufactured in Japan but if QC is crap, then the item will be crap. An item can be manufactured in China but if it undergoes strict QC and testing, then there should be no complaints.

So, the price variation is (IMHO) a factor on the brand of the product. Some brands adopt rigorous QC and are very strict with products meeting high standards. These additional precautions command a premium in price.

My 2c.

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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:51 am

no it does not matter....the key is in the design.....not cosmetic. the other is the premium that the COO (country of origin), material, manufactuing process and labour cost. some brands like to label MIJ to increase its value when its not. you can see that Fourteen is a brand that do not distort the truth. most of the major brands do not and will even label it on the club itself.

design..... the ping eyes 2 remains the best wedge thus far. most will argue but for those who use one, they will not change. Thaworn and JMS are sworn users.

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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:53 am

DGman wrote:
no it does not matter....the key is in the design.....not cosmetic. the other is the premium that the COO (country of origin), material, manufactuing process and labour cost. some brands like to label MIJ to increase its value when its not. you can see that Fourteen is a brand that do not distort the truth. most of the major brands do not and will even label it on the club itself.

design..... the ping eyes 2 remains the best wedge thus far. most will argue but for those who use one, they will not change. Thaworn and JMS are sworn users.

DGman


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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:47 am

DGman wrote:
no it does not matter....the key is in the design.....not cosmetic. the other is the premium that the COO (country of origin), material, manufactuing process and labour cost. some brands like to label MIJ to increase its value when its not. you can see that Fourteen is a brand that do not distort the truth. most of the major brands do not and will even label it on the club itself.

design..... the ping eyes 2 remains the best wedge thus far. most will argue but for those who use one, they will not change. Thaworn and JMS are sworn users.

DGman

also the corporate "will" to see that the design is faithfully manufactured to its original exacting standards without compromise (designers preferred stance).. all facilities wanna make things faster cheaper better aka productivity (engineering viewpoint) but some things cant hv shortcuts and hv to be slowly made wif care and passion (at times by hand) and hence the doubling and tripling of costs hence attracting a very small market (marketing problem...lol ) .... case in point China-made and wholly China-owned original brand SEAGULL watches - their labor intensive complicated tourbillons costs USD5k upwards which is much much cheaper than Swiss ones but still v expensive by most standards for a timepiece ... so if there is a will, there is a way and China made definitely can make it! only reason why this brand is not selling as fast is the world's general perception of China as a shoddy dicey manufacturer (lead/toxic paints on toys for babies and cardboard in buns ring any bells?) plus most fake luxury bags and fashion items emanate there thro the backdoors of most Asian and African countries...

So yes, COO does matter to some consumers particularly western countries (France, USA) and Japan where nationalistic feelings or simply country biasness run high… Like it or not, a brand’s COO image does influence brand equity to a certain degree…
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:16 am

i will dare challenge a brand even like rolex.....

do you know how many % of the component inside a Rolex is made in china. a lot i assure you. the hongkong companies have an almost monopoly on watch parts and now their factories are in china. i met the chairman of the watch manufacturing association and i was shocked at the level of competence and degree of manufactured parts (MIC) in a swiss watch.

hence i only have one watch now.....its designed and the brand is singaporean owned and for the full capabilities of a automatic chronograph, i paid less than $2 k and it comes with a electric winder box...but that was when they first started.....

i also agreed that seagull is a damn good watch for the price....don't start me on watches...haha

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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:30 am

I like to make it in PRC, JP, TH and TW....


whoops we talking about different things

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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:33 am

When it comes to horology, it's a different ball game altogether. It is the perception, and the wearer's association with the brand. Made in Switzerland is a given if it is to be deem a 'proper' watch. Exception to glashutte and Lange A Sohne which are great timepieces from Germany.

Eg panerai, if remains as an Italian watch, I wonder if it will enjoy the success it has today. It makes it's own in-house movement now for some models, in Switzerland if I may add. But if I compare the quality of the finishing of the movement, or the complexity of its movement, it is a relative newbie. But yet it's watches are selling like hot cakes because of its association with the italian navy divers which it supplied equipment in the past.

Similar for Rolex, it has built brand equity over the years. Even if some
Of the components maybe mic, people will still buy it. It's assembly line in Switzerland has good qc, even if it is not 100% handmade.

With golf clubs these days, I noticed the components may be labelled mic but also label that it is assembled in USA. I guess the perception issue, golfers still think if assembled in USA, it's better.
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:48 am

The question is about performance, quality, softness.

performance - this is a result of design...if its well designed, the ensuing performance will follow, not the COO of the product. case in point BFG irons for a positive product in this category.

quality - this is a result of QC and allowable tolerance levels. things made with stricter QC will be have a higher rate of quality for the retail market

softness - this is a direct result of the material used.


So COO is not the important factor.

I can quote one example...Adams Super Fairway XTD...its performance is good due to the excellent design, quality is poor with a lot of complaints regarding the weight dropping out from the weight port but it definitely gives the impression of a very soft feeling and hot face when struck due to the titanium material used for the face. COO - China,brand US....

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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:49 am

DGman wrote:
i will dare challenge a brand even like rolex.....

do you know how many % of the component inside a Rolex is made in china. a lot i assure you. the hongkong companies have an almost monopoly on watch parts and now their factories are in china. i met the chairman of the watch manufacturing association and i was shocked at the level of competence and degree of manufactured parts (MIC) in a swiss watch.

hence i only have one watch now.....its designed and the brand is singaporean owned and for the full capabilities of a automatic chronograph, i paid less than $2 k and it comes with a electric winder box...but that was when they first started.....

i also agreed that seagull is a damn good watch for the price....don't start me on watches...haha


I must agree with DGman, now a days a lot of high profile brand's product are manufactured in either developing country or some better 3rd world country which is able to deliver highly premium product. Yet unfortunately they are unable to market these product under their own branding due to the perception by consumer about the state of these country.

As a consumer, I usually look at product design, quality and warranty or support. Will definately consider new brand which able to deliver the above 3 aspect regardless of country of origin.
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:36 pm

ladies and gentlemen may i introduce to u e Grenda Driver, the No1 China Brand golf club... Razz not sure if TW or TH got national golf brands?
Ref: http://www.grenda.cn/list/eabout_10.html

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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:58 pm

Very interesting.... I saw 18k gold FW...!!!!

Maybe inspired by the high end golf manufacturer for the special niche market (my guess)...

too bad... out of my budget...
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:59 pm

TM lookalike head cover :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:30 pm

jeffman88 wrote:
ladies and gentlemen may i introduce to u e Grenda Driver, the No1 China Brand golf club... Razz not sure if TW or TH got national golf brands?
Ref: http://www.grenda.cn/list/eabout_10.html


I work in China for the last 13 years and have yet to see this brand in any proshop or in any golfers hands (Chinese or non-chinese)

Maybe I'm not looking in the 'right' place tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:48 pm

charlesho wrote:
Very interesting.... I saw 18k gold FW...!!!!

Maybe inspired by the high end golf manufacturer for the special niche market (my guess)...

too bad... out of my budget...

bro only USD100 or SGD140 leh v afordable mah.. ? cheaper than some used branded drivers from last season rendeer
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-sale-Grenda-golf-driver-9-5-10-5-degree-graphite-R-S-shaft-one-wrench/549416211.html?tracelog=back_to_detail_a
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:08 pm

jeffman88 wrote:
charlesho wrote:
Very interesting.... I saw 18k gold FW...!!!!

Maybe inspired by the high end golf manufacturer for the special niche market (my guess)...

too bad... out of my budget...

bro only USD100 or SGD140 leh v afordable mah.. ? cheaper than some used branded drivers from last season rendeer
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-sale-Grenda-golf-driver-9-5-10-5-degree-graphite-R-S-shaft-one-wrench/549416211.html?tracelog=back_to_detail_a

Eh... y i see USD888 per piece one ah?

Cham la... start to get poor eye sight...
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:03 pm

Sorry, I cannot help it but notice the word "D8 "does look like the word "OB" from far away hehehehe .. I am not using this driver bro Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:39 pm

Here is a real story i shared in another forum about perceptions of "Made In". Some
of you might have read this true story. I somehow figured it's relevant to the
topic discussed here...and IMO, it all comes down to individual's definition
and perception. Whether or not you find it relevant to the topic, take it as a good read.

Here is the story from Vahdet Yilmaz.

A man sat at a metro station in Washington DC
and started to play the violin; it was a cold January morning. He played six
Bach pieces for about 45 minutes. During that time, since it was rush hour, it
was calculated that thousands of people went through the station, most of them
on their way to work.

Three minutes went by and a middle aged man noticed
there was musician playing. He slowed his pace and stopped for a few seconds
and then hurried up to meet his schedule.

A minute later, the violinist received his first
dollar tip: a woman threw the money in the till and without stopping continued
to walk.

A few minutes later, someone leaned against the wall
to listen to him, but the man looked at his watch and started to walk again.
Clearly he was late for work.

The one who paid the most attention was a 3 year old
boy. His mother tagged him along, hurried but the kid stopped to look at the
violinist.

Finally the mother pushed hard and the child continued
to walk turning his head all the time. This action was repeated by several
other children. All the parents, without exception, forced them to move on.

In the 45 minutes the musician played, only 6 people
stopped and stayed for a while. About 20 gave him money but continued to walk
their normal pace. He collected $32. When he finished playing and silence took
over, no one noticed it. No one applauded, nor was there any recognition.

No one knew this but the violinist was Joshua Bell,
one of the top musicians in the world. He played one of the most intricate
pieces ever written,with a violin worth 3.5 million dollars.

Two days before his playing in the subway, Joshua Bell
sold out at a theater in Boston
and the seats average $100.

This is a real story. Joshua Bell playing incognito in
the metro station
was organized by the Washington Post as part of a
social experiment about perception, taste and priorities of people. The
outlines were: in a commonplace environment at an inappropriate hour: Do we
perceive beauty?

Do we stop to appreciate it? Do we recognize the
talent in an unexpected context?

One of the possible conclusions from this experience
could be: If we do not have a moment to stop and listen to one of the best
musicians in the world playing the best music ever written, how many other
things are we missing?
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:53 pm

IGT, still I dont get the point about yr story and relating it to golf?

Are you trying to say regardless where the tool is made, its all about appreciation of the tool and making the best out of it? So it doesnt matter whether its made in PRC, JP, TW or TH?
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:06 pm

KK u damn der.....

one of the view is that people are attracted to what others deem as good and some of us stop making judgement for ourselves.

hence we always say...the proof is in the pudding. its not only relating to golf, it relates to life.

learn a new term today. thanks jeffman88.....its NQ, not IQ, not EQ
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:26 pm

Khorkar wrote:
IGT, still I dont get the point about yr story and relating it to golf?

Are you trying to say regardless where the tool is made, its all about appreciation of the tool and making the best out of it? So it doesnt matter whether its made in PRC, JP, TW or TH?


It really depends on the companies, the brands and the products. Let me
ask you how many big companies who still put craftmanship and artisan
above the revenue/profit KPI?

Many luxury products even labelled
"Made in" for e.g. France, Italy or USA; that probably indicates where the finalor finished
products are being assembled and exported from but many
internal parts and components are actually sourced from somewhere else and mainly from China. This was precisely the case about Rolex watch mentioned by DGman.

It's all about marketing and branding strategies that trying to change our perceptions. No doubt, strong and established brands give certain expectations in terms of quality and performance.

You would be surprised Miura or Fourteen are not known to many leisure golfers in the US; simply bcoz day in day out, they are only exposed to those big brands they get to watch on PGA Tour.

In a discussion, almost all i heard was Callaway, Ping, Titleist, you name it. And my feedback to the group discussion was - "unless you have hit Miura, you don't know what you have been missing. Period.", then i started got swarmed by queries.

So, it's all about marketing and perceptions. Even a lie that told 10 times could appear to be truth.
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:36 pm

DGman wrote:
KK u damn der.....

one of the view is that people are attracted to what others deem as good and some of us stop making judgement for ourselves.

hence we always say...the proof is in the pudding. its not only relating to golf, it relates to life.

learn a new term today. thanks jeffman88.....its NQ, not IQ, not EQ

Spot on, DGman! HIO!

KK - if asked forumers here if Miura is good, i believe most of the response is "Yes"; even including those who have yet to pure a shot with it. Wouldn't you think so? Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:41 pm

Very true. We should make our own judgement. Whether it miura or not and try other before you making own judgement on what is good. For all your know, something from Timbaktu may just be good enough.
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:52 pm

i must share this story....

many many years ago i came across a watch which i thought was very special....at that time nobody knows what brand but because the mechanism was viewable i took my trusted lope and had a close look. i found the mechanism to be very fine and the parts to be very house made rather than using a common mechanism like in the case of frank muller. on the case, it says 08/28 so i asked the seller how much he wanted...he said 6k and i bargained it to $5k.

about 6 years later when the brand was better known, i sold the watch for $9.5k. the problem with the watch was i bought it for my other half was the hairspring was too fine. it keeps getting entangle and will stop functioning.

luckily i managed to make almost double while the watch as truly nothing to shout about..it was very fine but it seems that its not meant to be worn. the later models i am sure was much better......

anyone want to guess the brand?
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PostSubject: Re: Made in PRC or JP or TH or TW?   Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:56 pm

Got price?
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