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 can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?

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IGT
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Thu Sep 27, 2012 6:47 pm

Eeeehhhhhh....consistently inconsistent?
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aling
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Thu Sep 27, 2012 7:51 pm

Thank you for all the comments....man, this can be quite an unsanitised environment!?....but I like!!!
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:20 pm

Haha yeah ... Just try your best to survive golf
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nutty88
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:53 am

siaokao wrote:
As much as we are living in a digital age these days, life is far from being binary.. Nothing absolute 1 or 0, black/white.. flat yes/no. Truth is always somewhere in between. So to those saying flat NO, I wonder what else in life they are missing. Question

You may think we are missing a lot in life but I assure you that nothing is missing in my life and it is as fulfulling as ever. Please bear in mind that we are referring to golfers on why fittings will not make inconsistent golfers more consistent.

I have once posted a question which I did not get a reply. Let me recap and post a few more questions on club fittings and note that I am really a lousy golfer with an inconsistent swing: -

1. My angle of attack is different every time. At times I hit at the toe, at times heel and once in a blue moon hit it sweet. What lie angle should I be fitted with? Flat, standard or upright?

2. My tempo varies. At times my swing speed is 90mph. At times 70-80 range. Once in a blue moon, I managed to get 95mph. What shalf flex and torque should I get? A, R, S, X?

3. My smash factor can range from 1.2 - 1.35 due to my inconsistent swing. Again what shaft flex should I get?

4. At times I have a very handsy swing and release way too quick that I severely hook my shots. At times I slice badly into the jungle and once in a blue moon, I hit a straight shot. What grip size and shaft flex should I get?

5. At times I raise my body up in the downswing, at times I lower it. Even in my setup, at times I stand taller and at times shorter with the same club. What length should I get?

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I top, duff and mishit a lot of my shot. How ah? I think I better give up golf.

And what about overall weight for the clubs? What about swing weight? The list can go on and on. There are just so many factors when it comes to club fittings. If one has a very inconsistent swing, how can a club fitter determine the right specs for the golfer? The only way is to keep getting this golfer to go back regularly and make changes as the swing evolves. You may be one of those who are talented and benefited from it as a beginner but we are really talking about the general population here as to whether one should work on their swing first and fittings later, or they should jump straight into fittings while still working on their poor swing techniques.





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abadan
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:36 am

I don't mean to offend or defend anyone. But a fitter once told me something which i agree with.

"If you can't hit 3 outta 5 balls in one general direction, go back and train somemore b4 coming to see me."
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:02 am

I may not be a good driver yet, but i will never be one if my car is fitted with the wrong tyre. Just one stupid analogy.

Another one that is more stupid : If i wear a pair of bigger shoes, not only i cannot run, i may fall and injure myself.

If i buy a set of lady clubs, and engage the top coach, someone as good as David Leadbetter, Butch Harmon, will i have a consistent swing?

The last time i watch the FedEx Cup, Tiger is still inconsistent with his swing...

U may not swing consistent yet, but a properly fitted club which is consistent will gives u the right feedback. Assist with impact tape and maybe a lie board. U can analyse where is the inconsistency, together with yr coach, or the lest with a friend who is a mature golfer, can identify the fault and remedy it, and speed up improvement. U can even use the swingreader apps (Free) in iphone to watch yrself, and maybe u can even help yrself.

I have encounter a newbie (he is of smaller build), fitted with KBS stiff, and the shaft is heavy, struggling to handle the club let alone swing it consistently, to even think of hitting the ball.

Fit a #7 iron that cost u less than $100, not even the cost of some expensive 1 hr lesson. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:25 am

Tiger is inconsistent? wow, this is power.

Sigmaone, you have always said fittings can make an inconsistent golfer consistent and this applies to beginners as well. Nike has spent millions and millions of dollars in R&D to get Tiger the best fitted equipment. Looks like Nike or Tiger's club fitter isn't good enough afterall since you claimed that Tiger is still inconsistent. Maybe you should write in to Nike and engage you to fit Tiger's clubs since you can change him to be a consistent golfer.

By the way, no one in the right mind will buy a pair of shoes that are too big. The person may have bought a off-the-rack running shoes if he aspires to be a marathon runner but he is just starting out. Once he has reached a certain level, he will then upgrade his shoes in different phases of his training. No?
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:28 am

Oh, and if one aspires to be a F1 driver, does he drive a F1 car on day one with all the sophistications and technologies?
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abadan
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:35 am

SigmaOne wrote:
I may not be a good driver yet, but i will never be one if my car is fitted with the wrong tyre. Just one stupid analogy.

Another one that is more stupid : If i wear a pair of bigger shoes, not only i cannot run, i may fall and injure myself.

If i buy a set of lady clubs, and engage the top coach, someone as good as David Leadbetter, Butch Harmon, will i have a consistent swing?

The last time i watch the FedEx Cup, Tiger is still inconsistent with his swing...

U may not swing consistent yet, but a properly fitted club which is consistent will gives u the right feedback. Assist with impact tape and maybe a lie board. U can analyse where is the inconsistency, together with yr coach, or the lest with a friend who is a mature golfer, can identify the fault and remedy it, and speed up improvement. U can even use the swingreader apps (Free) in iphone to watch yrself, and maybe u can even help yrself.

I have encounter a newbie (he is of smaller build), fitted with KBS stiff, and the shaft is heavy, struggling to handle the club let alone swing it consistently, to even think of hitting the ball.

Fit a #7 iron that cost u less than $100, not even the cost of some expensive 1 hr lesson. cheers

One shot top. one shot off the toe.. one shot shank.. one shot never even hit the ground. How would a lie board and lie tape help? And then u say use this info to identify what's wrong? with what? the club or the swing? Use swingreader to see what? The swing or the club?

I think there has been a discussion about "if u are good.. any club also can hit" If u give me a lady club now.. I can show u i will be able to hit it. I have also seen pro's that coach ladies.. and then take the lady's club and hit a few demo shots and not screw up. Don't blame equipment if the golfer is the problem. I don't think the club is the thing that casues a golfer duff, top, shank, slice, pullhook or even hit airballs.

You say Tiger is still inconsistent. Glad u brought this point up. Do u see him running off to his fitter or to his coach? do u see him rushing to the Nike tour van to get his clubs adjusted or does he go back straight to the range with his coach?

Small guys can't hit heavy and stiff shafts? Why not?
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:47 am

hahahaha

Some senile reply trying to say ill fitted tyres will never make u a good driver? I didn't know those cars you collect when you roll it out of the collection centre are all ill fitted even if they are new tyres of the wrong choice for the road. Its an F1 circuit out there folks, better monitor the track conditions before deciding to put on those slicks.

Amazing too if those new tyres u have on ur new car can also cause u to disregard signalling when u change lanes, can't keep to lane on turns on a NORMAL road or highway, can't parallel park etc. Wow! The wonders of modern science with tyres nowadays. Rolling Eyes

Stupid is as stupid does. The rebutt is truly reflecting how much knowledge 1 has. And like what Nutty said, mebbe TW should have gone to the Nike tour van to check his lie angles instead of heading to the range and practice green if he really wanted to win the FEDEX cup last week cos I think that shot he hit into the water on the par 3 6th on the last day was due to wrong lie angles or wrong size of grip or whatever.

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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:15 pm

S70B wrote:
hahahaha

reen if he really wanted to win the FEDEX cup last week cos I think that shot he hit into the water on the par 3 6th on the last day was due to wrong lie angles or wrong size of grip or whatever.

No lah! He had the wrong color socks on.. that's why!.. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:17 pm

abadan wrote:
SigmaOne wrote:
I may not be a good driver yet, but i will never be one if my car is fitted with the wrong tyre. Just one stupid analogy.

Another one that is more stupid : If i wear a pair of bigger shoes, not only i cannot run, i may fall and injure myself.

If i buy a set of lady clubs, and engage the top coach, someone as good as David Leadbetter, Butch Harmon, will i have a consistent swing?

The last time i watch the FedEx Cup, Tiger is still inconsistent with his swing...

U may not swing consistent yet, but a properly fitted club which is consistent will gives u the right feedback. Assist with impact tape and maybe a lie board. U can analyse where is the inconsistency, together with yr coach, or the lest with a friend who is a mature golfer, can identify the fault and remedy it, and speed up improvement. U can even use the swingreader apps (Free) in iphone to watch yrself, and maybe u can even help yrself.

I have encounter a newbie (he is of smaller build), fitted with KBS stiff, and the shaft is heavy, struggling to handle the club let alone swing it consistently, to even think of hitting the ball.

Fit a #7 iron that cost u less than $100, not even the cost of some expensive 1 hr lesson. cheers

One shot top. one shot off the toe.. one shot shank.. one shot never even hit the ground. How would a lie board and lie tape help? And then u say use this info to identify what's wrong? with what? the club or the swing? Use swingreader to see what? The swing or the club?

I think there has been a discussion about "if u are good.. any club also can hit" If u give me a lady club now.. I can show u i will be able to hit it. I have also seen pro's that coach ladies.. and then take the lady's club and hit a few demo shots and not screw up. Don't blame equipment if the golfer is the problem. I don't think the club is the thing that casues a golfer duff, top, shank, slice, pullhook or even hit airballs.
[IGT] +10

You say Tiger is still inconsistent. Glad u brought this point up. Do u see him running off to his fitter or to his coach? do u see him rushing to the Nike tour van to get his clubs adjusted or does he go back straight to the range with his coach?

Small guys can't hit heavy and stiff shafts? Why not?

As highlighted in green...
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:42 pm

Err... can someone help SigmaOne get both feet out of his mouth? Shocked

He can't reply.... No
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:09 pm

Hi aling,

Just a few thoughts from a fellow beginner's perspective that might help you out a bit. I got a set of fitted irons around a month ago, when I was about 3 months into the game. At that time, I was not too dissimilar to you. Not very consistent yet, but shots were generally ok - probably a couple of tops out of 10.

I found a fitted set of irons to be a good investment, but they will never be a magical tool that lets you strike the ball flawlessly everytime, otherwise everyone would be shooting sub-90 rounds. That only comes with good practice and instructions. Physically, I can't be too sure how much it has helped me with the actual swing, but there is better feel and balance.

What a fitted set does though, is to take equipment out of the equation. It's a nice form of reassurance knowing that your tool is tailor made for you. Also, psychologically, after a bad shot, you don't have anything else to blame but yourself.

Other than that, there are some intangible benefits. I found the clubs to be a good incentive to practice more and practice better. It's always a nice motivational tool. Plus it's a bonus to have a prettier set of clubs compared to your friends' generic sets!

In short, my advice to you would be like what Shamusan mentioned - please visit an honest fitter that will tell you whether fitting would help you with your current swing proficiency. I also went to Eric at BFG and he's a good man. Get the fitter to take a look at your swing to determine whether fitting would help. From there, it's up to you to decide whether to go ahead or not after considering the costs involved.
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:22 pm

bigbanana14 wrote:
Hi aling,

Just a few thoughts from a fellow beginner's perspective that might help you out a bit. I got a set of fitted irons around a month ago, when I was about 3 months into the game. At that time, I was not too dissimilar to you. Not very consistent yet, but shots were generally ok - probably a couple of tops out of 10.

I found a fitted set of irons to be a good investment, but they will never be a magical tool that lets you strike the ball flawlessly everytime, otherwise everyone would be shooting sub-90 rounds. That only comes with good practice and instructions. Physically, I can't be too sure how much it has helped me with the actual swing, but there is better feel and balance.

What a fitted set does though, is to take equipment out of the equation. It's a nice form of reassurance knowing that your tool is tailor made for you. Also, psychologically, after a bad shot, you don't have anything else to blame but yourself.

Other than that, there are some intangible benefits. I found the clubs to be a good incentive to practice more and practice better. It's always a nice motivational tool. Plus it's a bonus to have a prettier set of clubs compared to your friends' generic sets!

In short, my advice to you would be like what Shamusan mentioned - please visit an honest fitter that will tell you whether fitting would help you with your current swing proficiency. I also went to Eric at BFG and he's a good man. Get the fitter to take a look at your swing to determine whether fitting would help. From there, it's up to you to decide whether to go ahead or not after considering the costs involved.


Well said ++10
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:25 pm

SigmaOne wrote:
I may not be a good driver yet, but i will never be one if my car is fitted with the wrong tyre. Just one stupid analogy.

Another one that is more stupid : If i wear a pair of bigger shoes, not only i cannot run, i may fall and injure myself.

If i buy a set of lady clubs, and engage the top coach, someone as good as David Leadbetter, Butch Harmon, will i have a consistent swing?

The last time i watch the FedEx Cup, Tiger is still inconsistent with his swing...

U may not swing consistent yet, but a properly fitted club which is consistent will gives u the right feedback. Assist with impact tape and maybe a lie board. U can analyse where is the inconsistency, together with yr coach, or the lest with a friend who is a mature golfer, can identify the fault and remedy it, and speed up improvement. U can even use the swingreader apps (Free) in iphone to watch yrself, and maybe u can even help yrself.

I have encounter a newbie (he is of smaller build), fitted with KBS stiff, and the shaft is heavy, struggling to handle the club let alone swing it consistently, to even think of hitting the ball.

Fit a #7 iron that cost u less than $100, not even the cost of some expensive 1 hr lesson. cheers

Actually if you are a very good player regardless what clubs what flex should be able to hit. I seen single handicapper try out my senior flex iron, maybe the 1st 2 shorts he's not used to the flex and weight but after that it's normal to him. Yes, the dispersion of the shots maybe wider than his own clubs but he still hit more or less similar shots to his owned clubs.

Speaking abt Leadbetter, I read long time ago, he said he don't need low bounce wedge but he can play a normal bounce to be like a low bounce.

We all wow abt the shots people like Tiger, Rory, Phil made on tour. But we are forgetting that in order to made that shot, how much hard they hard to put into practice to be so consistent.

IMHO, fitting help but maybe to 10-20% of your overall game but still I think a sound swing is better.
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:41 pm

@bigbanana, by the way, I am curious to find out as to why you think your clubs are really fitted to you. Can you elaborate more on the fitting process and how the fitter came to a conclusion on the specs? It will be good if you can share with us your club specs against your swing characteristics. For example, when you hit onto the lie board, the tape at the sole showed most hits were towards the heel, thus the club was a little too upright and the fitter bent 1 degree flat.

Thank you.
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Birdman wrote:
Err... can someone help SigmaOne get both feet out of his mouth? Shocked

He can't reply.... No

+1.

Have patience and I am sure the reply will come. Based on my observation, there was a reply after every several postings. At times it came out like a machine gun too. Wonder if he has ever shot his own foot. ROFL
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:59 pm

SigmaOne wrote:


The last time i watch the FedEx Cup, Tiger is still inconsistent with his swing...

U may not swing consistent yet, but a properly fitted club which is consistent will gives u the right feedback. Assist with impact tape and maybe a lie board. U can analyse where is the inconsistency, together with yr coach, or the lest with a friend who is a mature golfer, can identify the fault and remedy it, and speed up improvement. U can even use the swingreader apps (Free) in iphone to watch yrself, and maybe u can even help yrself.

I have encounter a newbie (he is of smaller build), fitted with KBS stiff, and the shaft is heavy, struggling to handle the club let alone swing it consistently, to even think of hitting the ball.

Fit a #7 iron that cost u less than $100, not even the cost of some expensive 1 hr lesson. cheers

Pls help my TIGER to win more major!!! HELP
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:11 pm

Just contributing based on my common sense views which may be flawed as I found out recently that common sense is really rare among people and I too, alas, belong to the masses.

I am very curious how fitting when one is a true beginner can take equipment of out the equation. It is in fact adding more to the equation. Let me illustrate.

I used to have a terribly strong grip when I started out and of cos it is a swing/technique problem and not an issue with the equipment. I am sure most beginners started off with lots of swing faults such as grip problems, stance, going up and down etc. If we fit ourselves, wouldn't that be making our swing faults permanent? We are visual when it comes to acquiring psychomotor skills. We rely on feedback from ball flight to ingrain motor skills. When we get fitted, and we are undergoing training by professionals, they are correcting our swing flaws, but our equipments had been fitted to compensate for our swing flaws. What would happen? Blame the coach or blame the clubs or blame ourselves? When our good shots doesn't go the way it is supposed to be behaving due to the fitting, equipment not only add to the equation and slow our process of learning but may also make us lose confidence in our training program or develop other swing faults to compensate for the wrong fitting.

The stock clubs comes almost right for everyone. I have never seen a golf pro take a stock club and hit a hook, slice or balloon and blame it on the club being stock. They fit the club to optimise distance, spin, launch angle etc or decrease dispersion. Maybe they want it to draw a yard or two or fade slightly. If you are hooking, slicing, topping etc, you have more swing flaws then you think you have and it is best not to get fitted or you will end up reinforcing your swing faults.

Do let me know if what I understand is common sense or I am deluded all these while.

Bottomline, you cannot fit clubs to get more feedback to fix a swing flaw. If so tiger would be fitting more than receiving lessons

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Last edited by sunny on Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:12 pm

I din know that a $100 FITTED 7iron is a better than a $100 lesson... Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:17 pm

sunny wrote:
Just contributing based on my common sense views which may be flawed as I found out recently that common sense is really rare among people and I too, alas, belong to the masses.

I am very curious how fitting when one is a true beginner can take equipment of out the equation. It is in fact adding more to the equation. Let me illustrate.

I used to have a terribly strong grip when I started out and of cos it is a swing/technique problem and not an issue with the equipment. I am sure most beginners started off with lots of swing faults such as grip problems, stance, going up and down etc. If we fit ourselves, wouldn't that be making our swing faults permanent? We are visual when it comes to acquiring psychomotor skills. We rely on feedback from ball flight to ingrain motor skills. When we get fitted, and we are undergoing training by professionals, they are correcting our swing flaws, but our equipments had been fitted to compensate for our swing flaws. What would happen? Blame the coach or blame the clubs or blame ourselves? When our good shots doesn't go the way it is supposed to be behaving due to the fitting, equipment not only add to the equation and slow our process of learning but may also make us lose confidence in our training program or develop other swing faults to compensate for the wrong fitting.

The stock clubs comes almost right for everyone. I have never seen a golf pro take a stock club and hit a hook, slice or balloon and blame it on the club being stock. They fit te club to optimise distance, spin, launch angle etc or decrease dispersion. Maybe they want it to draw a yard or two or fade slightly. If you are hooking, slicing, topping etc, you have more swing flaws then you think you have and it is best not to get fitted or you will end up reinforcing your swing faults.

Do let me know if what I understand is common sense or I am deluded all these while

Yes. What you understand is common sense.
The deluded one is not you....
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:32 pm

sunny wrote:
Just contributing based on my common sense views which may be flawed as I found out recently that common sense is really rare among people and I too, alas, belong to the masses.

I am very curious how fitting when one is a true beginner can take equipment of out the equation. It is in fact adding more to the equation. Let me illustrate.

I used to have a terribly strong grip when I started out and of cos it is a swing/technique problem and not an issue with the equipment. I am sure most beginners started off with lots of swing faults such as grip problems, stance, going up and down etc. If we fit ourselves, wouldn't that be making our swing faults permanent? We are visual when it comes to acquiring psychomotor skills. We rely on feedback from ball flight to ingrain motor skills. When we get fitted, and we are undergoing training by professionals, they are correcting our swing flaws, but our equipments had been fitted to compensate for our swing flaws. What would happen? Blame the coach or blame the clubs or blame ourselves? When our good shots doesn't go the way it is supposed to be behaving due to the fitting, equipment not only add to the equation and slow our process of learning but may also make us lose confidence in our training program or develop other swing faults to compensate for the wrong fitting.

The stock clubs comes almost right for everyone. I have never seen a golf pro take a stock club and hit a hook, slice or balloon and blame it on the club being stock. They fit the club to optimise distance, spin, launch angle etc or decrease dispersion. Maybe they want it to draw a yard or two or fade slightly. If you are hooking, slicing, topping etc, you have more swing flaws then you think you have and it is best not to get fitted or you will end up reinforcing your swing faults.

Do let me know if what I understand is common sense or I am deluded all these while.

Bottomline, you cannot fit clubs to get more feedback to fix a swing flaw. If so tiger would be fitting more than receiving lessons

Bigger question than all this......
























Boss, you still playing golf?
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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:35 pm

To make you drool, yes. Recently played with birdman on TMCC Gardens with Titleist 913.

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PostSubject: Re: can you fix inconsistencies with club fitting?   Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:36 pm

sunny wrote:
If so tiger would be fitting more than receiving lessons

Because Tiger has not found the right fitter yet. Beer
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