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 Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...

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3131T
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PostSubject: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:09 pm

Hi Guys,

Recently Im confused by some issues on giving n taking strokes...

Ive this golf kaki who always give me 2-2 or 3-3... Our games is always there.
2 weeks ago we had a game n he won me in, out n overall, so 2 days ago, I asked for 3-3 open.
He accepted, n I won in, out n overall...

I suppose the next game he will reduce by giving me 2-2... But instead he said : "we play level next game" as he compare scoring n blah blah blah... To me, its just his bad day...

Personally, I will not accept to play level with him...

Wat do u guys think?

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aquaman
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:16 pm

Use handicap to decide, base on delta handicap on the total strokes for full game.
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3131T
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:20 pm

aquaman wrote:
Use handicap to decide, base on delta handicap on the total strokes for full game.

Ha ha... I tot of that too... But my hcp is 18, If playing with Slinger who is a very very very very very vey strong 18 hcp, we cant be playing level right? Thats one issue with delta from hcp...
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DRGjr72
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:38 pm

Almost all competitions that I have played in or run that have utilized a match play format, the full difference of the handicaps was utilized. So if I am scratch and the guy I am playing is 10, he would get 5 per side, allotted on the hardest handicap holes. If a guy plays well and shoots far lower than his handicap, that should show up on his handicap and it should lower it, thus lowering the strokes and making it more fair. The problem occurs when people don't post their scores, specifically their low rounds. Their handicap does not adjust and they will clean up.

Whenever I had a match with one of friends it was a stock bet. This meant that I would give him X strokes and the amount was what we usually played for. One or two outcomes would not change the bet. If I lost more than 3 or 4 times in a row, we would reassess the strokes or how I was playing. If it was a case of me playing poorly, then that was on me. If it was a case of him getting too many strokes we adjusted the strokes to make it more challenging.

The betting part was to keep us interested. If it ever got to the point where it was causing issues (tempers, etc.), we either lowered the amount or took a break as a friendship is not worth losing over a couple of bucks.

There should be no such thing as a "strong" handicap. Your handicap should be what it is. If he is a strong 18, and you are an 18 but feel that you have no chance, then either his handicap is wrong, or your is. The idea of a handicap is level the playing field of golfers of various skill levels so they can have a competitive component to the game. When people improve they usually have a window before the handicap adjusts where they can do pretty well. But if they are posting scores properly, it will adjust over time. I have not played golf with either of you, so this is not a dig whatsoever, but if both are 18 handicaps, matches should be relatively close with one winning some and losing some. If not, there are issues with your cap being to low, or his being to high.

At the end of the day you don't have to play the match if the strokes are not correct. When I was playing professionally I would take on just about any match, did not care about the strokes (left it up to the amateurs) as it was a good challenge for me, even if I lost. For me it was a good indication of the person. If I played well and lost, several times, I would know that his handicap was too high and he was most likely not telling the whole truth of his handicap. If I played well, and he lost very often, he had a "vanity" handicap that was too low. Adjustments would be made to make it fair and enjoyable for all. The last thing I wanted to do was to go out there for 4 hours and be pissed off because some guy cheated me out of 4 strokes or whatever and I lost a few bucks.
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:46 pm

DRGjr72 wrote:
Almost all competitions that I have played in or run that have utilized a match play format, the full difference of the handicaps was utilized. So if I am scratch and the guy I am playing is 10, he would get 5 per side, allotted on the hardest handicap holes. If a guy plays well and shoots far lower than his handicap, that should show up on his handicap and it should lower it, thus lowering the strokes and making it more fair. The problem occurs when people don't post their scores, specifically their low rounds. Their handicap does not adjust and they will clean up.

Whenever I had a match with one of friends it was a stock bet. This meant that I would give him X strokes and the amount was what we usually played for. One or two outcomes would not change the bet. If I lost more than 3 or 4 times in a row, we would reassess the strokes or how I was playing. If it was a case of me playing poorly, then that was on me. If it was a case of him getting too many strokes we adjusted the strokes to make it more challenging.

The betting part was to keep us interested. If it ever got to the point where it was causing issues (tempers, etc.), we either lowered the amount or took a break as a friendship is not worth losing over a couple of bucks.

There should be no such thing as a "strong" handicap. Your handicap should be what it is. If he is a strong 18, and you are an 18 but feel that you have no chance, then either his handicap is wrong, or your is. The idea of a handicap is level the playing field of golfers of various skill levels so they can have a competitive component to the game. When people improve they usually have a window before the handicap adjusts where they can do pretty well. But if they are posting scores properly, it will adjust over time. I have not played golf with either of you, so this is not a dig whatsoever, but if both are 18 handicaps, matches should be relatively close with one winning some and losing some. If not, there are issues with your cap being to low, or his being to high.

At the end of the day you don't have to play the match if the strokes are not correct. When I was playing professionally I would take on just about any match, did not care about the strokes (left it up to the amateurs) as it was a good challenge for me, even if I lost. For me it was a good indication of the person. If I played well and lost, several times, I would know that his handicap was too high and he was most likely not telling the whole truth of his handicap. If I played well, and he lost very often, he had a "vanity" handicap that was too low. Adjustments would be made to make it fair and enjoyable for all. The last thing I wanted to do was to go out there for 4 hours and be pissed off because some guy cheated me out of 4 strokes or whatever and I lost a few bucks.

Hi bro,

Very well writen and I totally agree with all ur pts n views... Especially the "The betting part was to keep us excited"...

Once again, thx for sharing bro... Beer
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hkhamateur
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:54 pm

DRGjr72 wrote:
Almost all competitions that I have played in or run that have utilized a match play format, the full difference of the handicaps was utilized. So if I am scratch and the guy I am playing is 10, he would get 5 per side, allotted on the hardest handicap holes. If a guy plays well and shoots far lower than his handicap, that should show up on his handicap and it should lower it, thus lowering the strokes and making it more fair. The problem occurs when people don't post their scores, specifically their low rounds. Their handicap does not adjust and they will clean up.

Whenever I had a match with one of friends it was a stock bet. This meant that I would give him X strokes and the amount was what we usually played for. One or two outcomes would not change the bet. If I lost more than 3 or 4 times in a row, we would reassess the strokes or how I was playing. If it was a case of me playing poorly, then that was on me. If it was a case of him getting too many strokes we adjusted the strokes to make it more challenging.

The betting part was to keep us interested. If it ever got to the point where it was causing issues (tempers, etc.), we either lowered the amount or took a break as a friendship is not worth losing over a couple of bucks.

There should be no such thing as a "strong" handicap. Your handicap should be what it is. If he is a strong 18, and you are an 18 but feel that you have no chance, then either his handicap is wrong, or your is. The idea of a handicap is level the playing field of golfers of various skill levels so they can have a competitive component to the game. When people improve they usually have a window before the handicap adjusts where they can do pretty well. But if they are posting scores properly, it will adjust over time. I have not played golf with either of you, so this is not a dig whatsoever, but if both are 18 handicaps, matches should be relatively close with one winning some and losing some. If not, there are issues with your cap being to low, or his being to high.

At the end of the day you don't have to play the match if the strokes are not correct. When I was playing professionally I would take on just about any match, did not care about the strokes (left it up to the amateurs) as it was a good challenge for me, even if I lost. For me it was a good indication of the person. If I played well and lost, several times, I would know that his handicap was too high and he was most likely not telling the whole truth of his handicap. If I played well, and he lost very often, he had a "vanity" handicap that was too low. Adjustments would be made to make it fair and enjoyable for all. The last thing I wanted to do was to go out there for 4 hours and be pissed off because some guy cheated me out of 4 strokes or whatever and I lost a few bucks.

Experience says it all! Tx fr sharg pro DRGjr72. Very Happy
Bro pat, who did u win/lost to? Rolling Eyes
Big bets? Question
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:56 pm

ok pat, if your kakis won outright u on the next game on 9 holes maybe you should ask more more in the back 9...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:59 pm

hkhamateur wrote:
DRGjr72 wrote:
Almost all competitions that I have played in or run that have utilized a match play format, the full difference of the handicaps was utilized. So if I am scratch and the guy I am playing is 10, he would get 5 per side, allotted on the hardest handicap holes. If a guy plays well and shoots far lower than his handicap, that should show up on his handicap and it should lower it, thus lowering the strokes and making it more fair. The problem occurs when people don't post their scores, specifically their low rounds. Their handicap does not adjust and they will clean up.

Whenever I had a match with one of friends it was a stock bet. This meant that I would give him X strokes and the amount was what we usually played for. One or two outcomes would not change the bet. If I lost more than 3 or 4 times in a row, we would reassess the strokes or how I was playing. If it was a case of me playing poorly, then that was on me. If it was a case of him getting too many strokes we adjusted the strokes to make it more challenging.

The betting part was to keep us interested. If it ever got to the point where it was causing issues (tempers, etc.), we either lowered the amount or took a break as a friendship is not worth losing over a couple of bucks.

There should be no such thing as a "strong" handicap. Your handicap should be what it is. If he is a strong 18, and you are an 18 but feel that you have no chance, then either his handicap is wrong, or your is. The idea of a handicap is level the playing field of golfers of various skill levels so they can have a competitive component to the game. When people improve they usually have a window before the handicap adjusts where they can do pretty well. But if they are posting scores properly, it will adjust over time. I have not played golf with either of you, so this is not a dig whatsoever, but if both are 18 handicaps, matches should be relatively close with one winning some and losing some. If not, there are issues with your cap being to low, or his being to high.

At the end of the day you don't have to play the match if the strokes are not correct. When I was playing professionally I would take on just about any match, did not care about the strokes (left it up to the amateurs) as it was a good challenge for me, even if I lost. For me it was a good indication of the person. If I played well and lost, several times, I would know that his handicap was too high and he was most likely not telling the whole truth of his handicap. If I played well, and he lost very often, he had a "vanity" handicap that was too low. Adjustments would be made to make it fair and enjoyable for all. The last thing I wanted to do was to go out there for 4 hours and be pissed off because some guy cheated me out of 4 strokes or whatever and I lost a few bucks.

Experience says it all! Tx fr sharg pro DRGjr72. Very Happy
Bro pat, who did u win/lost to? Rolling Eyes
Big bets? Question

lol! Worst part is, its only 5-5-10, not even enough to buy beer... Dunno y he take it so seriously...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:02 pm

enwee wrote:
ok pat, if your kakis won outright u on the next game on 9 holes maybe you should ask more more in the back 9...

I guess I will go with bro DRGjr72 n skip the betting part n let the frenship moves on...

Not worth for the few bucks...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:07 pm

3131T wrote:
enwee wrote:
ok pat, if your kakis won outright u on the next game on 9 holes maybe you should ask more more in the back 9...

I guess I will go with bro DRGjr72 n skip the betting part n let the frenship moves on...

Not worth for the few bucks...
True, bro pat, seen 20-30 years old friends no longer talking to each other over small bet.

Btw is your kaki looking at this????
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:13 pm

3131T wrote:
enwee wrote:
ok pat, if your kakis won outright u on the next game on 9 holes maybe you should ask more more in the back 9...

I guess I will go with bro DRGjr72 n skip the betting part n let the frenship moves on...

Not worth for the few bucks...

Alternatively, since its only for a few bucks, you can do the other thing Dan said ... take it up as a challenge!! You may be pleasantly surprised! cheers

Anyways, if its with someone you play often enough with, stroking should be pretty straightforward ... http://www.golfrepublic.org/t17900-my-555-booklet

Start with something fair (or close enough) and adjust it by 1-1 after every game ... its doesnt get simpler that that Beer
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:36 pm

Bro pat when u want to take your money back from me? I still need to give u 1 stroke or 1-1? Haha let me know when you free.

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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:48 pm

Among my kakis, we review after each game. Every 2 holes = 1 stroke.

So, if I win by 4 holes overall, I get 2 strokes less. We do it as an ongoing review regardless of handicap.
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:55 pm

enwee wrote:
3131T wrote:
enwee wrote:
ok pat, if your kakis won outright u on the next game on 9 holes maybe you should ask more more in the back 9...

I guess I will go with bro DRGjr72 n skip the betting part n let the frenship moves on...

Not worth for the few bucks...
True, bro pat, seen 20-30 years old friends no longer talking to each other over small bet.

Btw is your kaki looking at this????

Agree... Nope, he is not a member of GR...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:57 pm

TourSwing wrote:
3131T wrote:
enwee wrote:
ok pat, if your kakis won outright u on the next game on 9 holes maybe you should ask more more in the back 9...

I guess I will go with bro DRGjr72 n skip the betting part n let the frenship moves on...

Not worth for the few bucks...

Alternatively, since its only for a few bucks, you can do the other thing Dan said ... take it up as a challenge!! You may be pleasantly surprised! cheers

Anyways, if its with someone you play often enough with, stroking should be pretty straightforward ... http://www.golfrepublic.org/t17900-my-555-booklet

Start with something fair (or close enough) and adjust it by 1-1 after every game ... its doesnt get simpler that that Beer

Ha ha ha... Bro, u r right, playing often is straight forward...

Hmmm... I will start my 555 booklet...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:58 pm

talltist wrote:
Bro pat when u want to take your money back from me? I still need to give u 1 stroke or 1-1? Haha let me know when you free.


lol! It has been long due... Its abt time to take back with interest... We arrange offline asap bro...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:05 pm

simoner wrote:
Among my kakis, we review after each game. Every 2 holes = 1 stroke.

So, if I win by 4 holes overall, I get 2 strokes less. We do it as an ongoing review regardless of handicap.

Thats a general way which Im doing now...

With my usual kaki, said playing level, we will adjust if winning is 75% or 100% to 1-1... Meaning for example, 5-5-10 wages, win 15 or 20 then adjust to 1-1. If only win overall of 10 bucks, stroking stays at level...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:40 pm

Bluff ..., you didn't treat me that way ...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:57 pm

jeremykoh wrote:
Bluff ..., you didn't treat me that way ...

no matter how I treat u... u always win me lor...


Last edited by 3131T on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:10 pm

We also often forgot to adjust for course handicap. On tougher courses with higher slope ratings, the higher handicap suffers more than the single. Could be extra 1-2 strokes.

winning or losing one or two games may not be due to strokes, just bad form. I mean statistically golfers can play to handicap only one in five games (source: pope of slope) Provided the handicaps are correct and you play with the opponent often enough (enough sample), the stroking per handicap should be correct over time

Quote from Sam Snead: "You should never gamble with a stranger, and consider everyone a stranger until you've played with him at least a dozen times"
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:04 am

pushslice wrote:
We also often forgot to adjust for course handicap. On tougher courses with higher slope ratings, the higher handicap suffers more than the single. Could be extra 1-2 strokes.

winning or losing one or two games may not be due to strokes, just bad form. I mean statistically golfers can play to handicap only one in five games (source: pope of slope) Provided the handicaps are correct and you play with the opponent often enough (enough sample), the stroking per handicap should be correct over time

Quote from Sam Snead: "You should never gamble with a stranger, and consider everyone a stranger until you've played with him at least a dozen times"

Yo bro... but we normally we dun adjust according to course rating... Agree with u that higher course rating, higher hcp suffer...

Ha ha... Meaning no bet for 1st 12 game... But kinda too much...
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:14 am

Lucky I am not in the position to stroke anybody so will nvr kenna complain... I only like to be stroked and hope that air-con buses don't break down Smile

Anyway, Bro Pat... I very friendly one... we will always play level so at least there will always be someone there to offer you some $$$.
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:39 am

pushslice wrote:
We also often forgot to adjust for course handicap. On tougher courses with higher slope ratings, the higher handicap suffers more than the single. Could be extra 1-2 strokes.

winning or losing one or two games may not be due to strokes, just bad form. I mean statistically golfers can play to handicap only one in five games (source: pope of slope) Provided the handicaps are correct and you play with the opponent often enough (enough sample), the stroking per handicap should be correct over time

Quote from Sam Snead: "You should never gamble with a stranger, and consider everyone a stranger until you've played with him at least a dozen times"

Shocked

Dozen times ???

So are we betting in our first game ?? Laughing

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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:43 am

Laughing well you get the drift la...

I do bet cheng tng on first game. but I saw your 6-7 scores from guy's thread already la, mid 80s off blue right? Maybe must give me 3-4 or 4-4 about there la hahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Whats ur comment on fair Stroking for Match Play...   Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:03 am

pushslice wrote:
Laughing well you get the drift la...

I do bet cheng tng on first game. but I saw your 6-7 scores from guy's thread already la, mid 80s off blue right? Maybe must give me 3-4 or 4-4 about there la hahaha

I'm like u in a slump bro... Can't even hit P.

But done for 3-3..

See you tom.

Laughing

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