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 Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?

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Victor3112
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PostSubject: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:59 pm

Hole3 ,Par4 439m downhill, Phil drove his driver 290m (maybe 300m), right into rough. His ball landed in a 2ft wide rough, in between the paveway on the left and a small drain on the right. The ball is about 1ft away from the drain. He told the official that he is a lefty and would risk to take a swing with awkward split legs stance across the drain. So he asked for a relief and dropped the ball on the left of the paveway without penalty. His 2nd shot flew 140m and stopped 5ft from the pin and made an eventual birdie.

I am not sure if the ball hit the paveway before coming to stop at the rough. But even it did, the ball was in the rough. Why he can get a relief with out penalty? Which rule?

Pls enlighten......
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:03 pm

You are allowed relief from any artificial obstacles that may interfere with your swing. Items like drainage concrete, cart path, lamp posts, power boxes etc

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Victor3112
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:21 pm

In this case, no proper stance is also considered interference to the swing? I thought swing means club's swing path.

In the particular one, just becos Phil is lefty. It will not be a free drop if it was for right handed player that could stand at the cart path and swing freely. Right?

I saw once in PGA on tv, VJ swung from the concrete cart path. Why he didnot ask for free drop?

Also, I saw players mark balls at the fairway freely with tee today. It that common? I don't see that in PGA on tv.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:27 pm

You can take relief from cart path but not the rough. If nearest point of relief from cart path is a bush or bad lie, it is better not to take relief.

Marking and cleaning balls on fairway is normally not allowed. But in singapore open, preferred lie is in play which allow players to do that as long as they are not in the rough or hazards

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Victor3112
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:35 pm

Sunny, what do you mean "preferred lie is in play"? Is the special granted rule announced before the play or a common rule after rain?

Can each tournament has their own little variation of rule from the other?
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:38 pm

What Sunny just explained happened just yesterday in the Volvo Matchplay with Ross Fisher. He was up against the Hospitality booth. He got relief, but nearest point on the cart path from which he was again entitled to free relief, which left him in a flower bed. Further relief from that would have come with a penalty stroke. He decided to play off the concrete cart path.

To further explain on the preferred lie, organisers declare that preferred lie is in play cos of the wet and relatively mushy conditons on the course.

The other time when players mark the ball on the fairway is when play is stopped cos of weather or failing light conditions. They then resume play from those same marked positions when the go ahead is given.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:42 pm

preferred lie is not in the rules of golf. It is a local rule. Generally preferred lie is a used when the condition of the course is soggy or during winter. Normally they will make a local rule where the players can improve their lie without penalty on the fairway.

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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:47 pm

read appendix 1 of rules of golf

b.“Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”

Adverse conditions, including the poor condition of the course or the
existence of mud, are sometimes so general, particularly during winter months,
that the Committee may decide to grant relief by temporary Local Rule
either to protect the course or to promote fair and pleasant play.The
Local Rule should be withdrawn as soon as the conditions warrant.

As mentioned earlier, preferred lies is not in the 34 rules of golf but in the appendix under local rules.

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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:48 pm

Preferred lie is also known as winter rules by the way.

And I think it means you can lift, clean, and then place ur ball on a preffered lie.

Sunny, concur or not?
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:52 pm

actually if you look at the rules of golf, they state preferred lies and winter rules...so they are actually two different rules

In winter, you call that local rule winter rules. On heavy rain and soggy grounds, there is no winter so you call it preferred lies.

Hahaha... but i got your point. Most ppl say they are the same as the result of both the rules are the same. You can pick, clean your ball and place it on a preferred lie.

However, if you set a course record etc on preferred lie, it is not 'recognised'

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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:58 pm

Yah man, I remember when my friends declared winter rules and i got so confused, just replier "oh ok" wondering what the hell it was since where got winter here. So I just observed them and followed suit, still wondering about the winter part of it. Lol
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Victor3112
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:13 am

Bro, that make sense. Thx.

Phil reasoned with the official and finally decided his play plan. He then said "let me ask Rod about it". Phil said to Rod " blah blah blah... what do you think?" Rod replied " it make sense." I thought no advice on the course is allowed. Is this considered a piece of advice?
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:18 am

you can seek clarification on the rules. That is not advice. If Phil says I dunno how to play it and the reply is put one leg here and one leg down so you can stand stable, that is an advise.

Definition of Advice

"Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.

Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice.

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PostSubject: Re: Phil's par4 hole3 relief no penalty?   Today at 4:03 pm

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