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 Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)

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kangster
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PostSubject: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:13 pm

Dear fellow golfers,

Hit a ball into one of those gazzetted big big "Flower Bed", was told by flight mate that no penalty is incurred ONLY if we find the ball.

But, in this case, isn't the purpose of setting up this Big Big so call Flower bed is to discourage golfer from venturing into the flower bed to search for ball? and doen't the local rules provide a free drop even if we don't find the original ball?

Anyway, the bet is small but just wanted to learn the correct rule so as not to get hustle the next time.

Thks for advice :-)
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EastCoastHack
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:31 pm

Pretty sure it is Rule 25-1. I ended up in a flower bed at MBGC yesterday (Hole 18. Sliced to the right from the tee) The sign there said I could not enter the flower bed to look for my ball. Took a drop one club length from where I believe it crossed in.

But then I'm a complete hack and could be wrong...

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kangster
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:17 pm

So... Does 25-1 provide free relief or 1 strokes penalty?
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EastCoastHack
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:37 pm

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=25&subRuleNum=1&decisionId=F589EF54-DDDC-4784-8128-A1393FF66A55

Read sections b and c. Importantly:

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward an abnormal ground condition is in such a condition. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the abnormal ground condition. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.


So my understanding is if you know its in the GUR (whether you find it or not) no penalty. If you don't know for sure, penalty.

Anyone understand differently?




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chien
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:44 pm

EastCoastHack wrote:
http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=25&subRuleNum=1&decisionId=F589EF54-DDDC-4784-8128-A1393FF66A55

Read sections b and c. Importantly:

It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward an abnormal ground condition is in such a condition. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the abnormal ground condition. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1.


So my understanding is if you know its in the GUR (whether you find it or not) no penalty. If you don't know for sure, penalty.

Anyone understand differently?





I agree... How can u be sure it's still in the flower bed from 200m+ away at the tee box.. it could have gone inside, rolled n rested behind a tree at the other side.. by taking a free drop i feel is not so fair to the player who puts his ball on the fairway.. my friends and I play that anyway...

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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:54 pm

Eastcoast Hack is spot on. As long as you are sure it entered the flower bed, for MGBC it is considered free relief. There is no need to find the ball.

What is ABSOLUTELY WRONG is that you need to find the ball before you are entitled to relief. But I do realise that is the common myth that is going around.

I clarified this with the Golf Manager of MBGC (who also happens to be a fully qualified R&A Referee). This local rule is set up in the interest of maintaining pace of play.

However, when I play with my friends, to make things more fair, we treat flower beds as hazards. Some effect of speeding up play, but gives advantage to those who managed to find the fairways.

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mengteck71
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:22 pm

kangster wrote:
Dear fellow golfers,

Hit a ball into one of those gazzetted big big "Flower Bed", was told by flight mate that no penalty is incurred ONLY if we find the ball.

But, in this case, isn't the purpose of setting up this Big Big so call Flower bed is to discourage golfer from venturing into the flower bed to search for ball? and doen't the local rules provide a free drop even if we don't find the original ball?

Anyway, the bet is small but just wanted to learn the correct rule so as not to get hustle the next time.

Thks for advice :-)

For SCC,

Those with Yellow "Flower Bed" board cannot go in. Just drop a ball near point of entry without penalty. Those without any marking are to play as it lies if ball is found. Otherwise treat as lost ball. Hence, for this situation, its better to hit a 'P' ball incase u cant find your ball.

There is also another case (Hole 3) where the big brown bushes on the right after the bridge are marked with Red lateral hazards. YOu can play as it lie based on Hazard rule or drop and play at nearest relief with 1 penalty stroke.
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TDO
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:22 pm

I thought all along that as long as one of your flight mates testified the ball had entered the flower bed it would be sufficient to allow a free drop. But please don't damage the flowers to look for the ball. This rule also apply if you cannot find your ball in the fairway but your flight mates confirm it's on the fairway. I always play this rule with my flight mates. Friendly game so no need to be so serious.

But now it set me wondering if my interpretation is correct.
Smile
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slyster
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:51 pm

Hi everyone,

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

I have a similar query but this is regarding the OB markers and the tall side nettings which is located right next to the OB marker sticks (e.g. left side on holes 6,7,8 at MBGC).

When one drives from the tee and it hits the side netting, and bounces back into play, is this considered OB or not?

My assessment is that the netting is placed there to protect members of the public on the other side (which is an open car park) who otherwise might be hurt by the wayward ball. The fact that the ball hits the net and bounces back into play doesnt mean its not out-of-bound, because without the netting, it would go out-of-bounds anyway.

Can someone enlighten me on this please?
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sly21498
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:29 pm

Cool !! Rub of the Green. Ball heading towards Out of Bounds deflected off boundary fence and came to a rest in bounds. Imagine the fence to be a tree.... Wink
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:40 pm

Rule is applied as the ball lies. A ball is out of bounds when all of it "lies" out of bounds. As it lies (not as it flies...) At rest. Where the ball stops. If it lies outside the course, it's OB. If its inside the course, it's not OB.

Ps: A net outside the OB stakes are not in the course, it's not obstruction also.
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slyster
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:07 pm

Thanks Panji
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neutralgolfer
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:06 pm

Under normal rules, flowerbed are not free relief, must find ball and play as it lies, if cannot find must play as lost ball.

However if there is a local rule on flowerbed declaring it as GUR or prohibited entry, then as long as it is certainly sure it crossed the flowerbed, no need to find ball, just drop and no penalty.

NSRCC, MBGC and SCC has this local rule in place. See the score card behind or signboard which states "Entry is Prohibited"

Have confirmed this with local USGA certified Rules Official as well.

Hope this clarifies.

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adenn20
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:00 pm

Really enlightening thread here

I've been one if the silly ones, who's been penalizing myself when I can't find the ball in the flowerbed

Thanks!
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kangster
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:20 pm

Aiya.... can't no longer aim at the flower jungle when i play mbgc liao....

Just joking lol! Swing Evil or Very Mad
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adenn20
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PostSubject: Re: Local Rules : MBGC n SCC (Flower Bed)   Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:24 pm

Hahhahahahahahahahha

I do that too!!!!!
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