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 Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?

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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:58 pm

Recently working on my long iron and driver swing, I did spend a lot of time to solve my slicing problem for my long iron swing.
I practiced a lot on my rythem, hip turn, shoulder turn, and release clubhead with flat lefthand wrist..... I even tried to swing slower to get the rythem right, however still can not solve the slicing problem for long irons. FYI, i am quite ok with my mid/short iron so far.
I am using Ping G20 Steel shaft iron, Regular Flex. If I use my Mizuno Graphite shaft iron. It seems a bit better. I think it is because Grapgite shaft is lighter.

My conclusion: I don't have no enoguh strength from my arm and hands to release the clubhead for long and heavy clubs with the right rythem. I am 1.75M/62kG.

My solution:
1. go to Gym to build up my strength. WIP...
2. Use Graphite shaft irons to get rythem right first.
3. Stop using driver. Sad

I have game to play recently, no choice, I have to use my driver, no matter how...
Highly appreciate if any Pro can give advice how to move on... Thanks in advance...
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scottycollector
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:11 pm

im nothing close to a pro, but i think that slicing has not much to do with strength. it's probably just the swing.

also. what do u mean by 'release clubhead with flat lefthand wrist'? the wrist should be flat at impact with the back of ur left hand facing the target, but your wrist should then turn over in the release.

keeping ur left wrist 'flat' through the release might be the cause of ur slice.
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:32 pm

scottycollector wrote:
im nothing close to a pro, but i think that slicing has not much to do with strength. it's probably just the swing.

also. what do u mean by 'release clubhead with flat lefthand wrist'? the wrist should be flat at impact with the back of ur left hand facing the target, but your wrist should then turn over in the release.

keeping ur left wrist 'flat' through the release might be the cause of ur slice.
Sorry, my mistake, should be "flat wrist at impact". My problem could be my wrist turning too slow before impact. End up at impact, the back of my left hand facing slightly to the right of target (just guess, can't see..). That is why I think i dont have enough strenght to trun my wrist as the same rythem as my hip and shoulder.... it only happen to my long irons and driver.
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eiji
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:37 pm

You can try various drills online that helps you eliminate slices, it has nothing to do with your size. Try hitting a hook, you must learn to hit a hook to learn release.

The best solution?




See a coach.






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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:02 pm

eiji wrote:
You can try various drills online that helps you eliminate slices, it has nothing to do with your size. Try hitting a hook, you must learn to hit a hook to learn release.

The best solution?




See a coach.





Just share my learning experience; I had 2 coaches, one for group training and one for one session of One-to-One training.
My coaches seems not interested in my swing problem, just teach they already prepared lessons. They keep on saying, you can come back for intermediate lesson. only"$" and "$" In their eyes..What I learnt from them is just knowing what golf is, I have to get info on line, endup my real coach is Youtube eventually. really lost of confident of getting a coach…
No offence to coaches in the forum, it might be just my bad luck….
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Quest
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:13 pm

Just wondering, in your case: Long irons = ?

I've long ditched my 3i & 4i, replacing them with just a 21 deg hybrid. Never looked back since. To hit the 3i and 4i needs swing speed to launch, and it's just too much work for weekend golfers like me with no time for range practice.

One possible way for you to try is to use half swings first to groove in the impact. Tempo is very important for the longer clubs, cannot rush as the mistakes will be exacerbated.
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jhan18
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:28 pm

Hi lionwoods.

4 factors that contribute to ballflight
1. Club face at impact
2. Centredness of strike
3. Swing Plane
4. Angle of attack

Most golfers understand that a slice derives from an open club face at impact, which you have correctly explained.
However most do not know the relationship between the 4 factors. For example. A most common slicer of a ball would have:
1. Club face open to target
2. Strike the ball off the heel
3 &4 outside in plane coupled with the downward descend of the club head onto the ball.

Now we can all see point 1,2,3 on video analysis and only 4 on a launch monitor.

I suggest the following:
1. Seek help from a professional club fitter. He will better your understanding of the those 4 factors and in the case for some, help restructure the concept of your golf swing. DGMan and ivangolffitting are expert club fitters on the forum. I'm sure they would be more than happy to assist you.
2. Seek help from a golf professional who has access to a launch monitor. Our professionals at Laguna are fortunate enough to have our students hit shots with the aid of one thanks to Torque golf's kind assistance and professional help.

Cheers
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keithlim
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:39 pm

just to chip in that Chern at green fairways range has a swing monitor that he uses for his lessons too. you may wish to consider
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battousai
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:31 pm

Consciously rotate your forearm through impact and it will create a draw. It will result in a slight or strong draw depending on your timing. The club face should be closing before impact and slight closed after hitting the ball.

Over the top swing or/ and an open club head upon impact causes a slice. Once you have solve your slice problem, the next progression of issues that you are likely to have is pulls and hooks or both (pull hook)... hahaha...

Hope this helps Very Happy
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aero66
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:12 pm

Everyone of us will have different contributing factors to overcome for a slice.
u need to identify it to work on it. changing too much things at a time will only mess up your swing all together.

manage to cure my slice recently.

what i do.

1. setup and pre routine to make sure i sq my face on impact.
2. left forearm remain straight during take away and impact.
3. right leg abit back to promote a draw ( also help to open up for my full rotation)
4. driver head 1/2 inch away from my ball at address (knowing i cannot close in time)

no more slice and doing 220-230 from 200 avg in the past.

just my 2 cent on what works for me. i m no pro just hope this help. Smile
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:07 am

battousai wrote:
Consciously rotate your forearm through impact and it will create a draw. It will result in a slight or strong draw depending on your timing. The club face should be closing before impact and slight closed after hitting the ball.

Over the top swing or/ and an open club head upon impact causes a slice. Once you have solve your slice problem, the next progression of issues that you are likely to have is pulls and hooks or both (pull hook)... hahaha...

Hope this helps Very Happy

Thanks for your advice, tried last night for rotating my forearm faster, most of the balls flying straighter. need to practice more..
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:09 am

aero66 wrote:
Everyone of us will have different contributing factors to overcome for a slice.
u need to identify it to work on it. changing too much things at a time will only mess up your swing all together.

manage to cure my slice recently.

what i do.

1. setup and pre routine to make sure i sq my face on impact.
2. left forearm remain straight during take away and impact.
3. right leg abit back to promote a draw ( also help to open up for my full rotation)
4. driver head 1/2 inch away from my ball at address (knowing i cannot close in time)

no more slice and doing 220-230 from 200 avg in the past.

just my 2 cent on what works for me. i m no pro just hope this help. Smile
Will try out later, just like what you said, changing too much things at a time will mess up my swing.
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:29 am

Dear bros, thank you very much for all the valuable advices. Need time to digest and practice harder. I think this is where the fun of golf come from. I am enjoying being suffered….
There is still one thing puzzling me, the swing power is more from left hand or right hand? My ex coach always says, "golf is left hand game, power is from left hand, right hand is just to follow". There are plenty of videos from youtube teaching the other way: the power is from right hand. I read Ben Hogan's 5 lessons before, right hand is the accelerator, left hand is steering. I spent a bit time to practice my right hand swing recently, meaning, just swing the club with my right hand to build up the right hand swing power. It really works for me.
Any experience to share?
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costajos
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:31 am

lionwoods wrote:
Dear bros, thank you very much for all the valuable advices. Need time to digest and practice harder. I think this is where the fun of golf come from. I am enjoying being suffered….
There is still one thing puzzling me, the swing power is more from left hand or right hand? My ex coach always says, "golf is left hand game, power is from left hand, right hand is just to follow". There are plenty of videos from youtube teaching the other way: the power is from right hand. I read Ben Hogan's 5 lessons before, right hand is the accelerator, left hand is steering. I spent a bit time to practice my right hand swing recently, meaning, just swing the club with my right hand to build up the right hand swing power. It really works for me.
Any experience to share?

this is a really gd question. heard and read many diff things too..
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pocketace
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:47 am


Recently this similar question was raise by my mate. The rhetorical response i heard from the coach was, (for a right hander) why use the 'gay' (left) hand when instinctively the right hand has more power?

The beauty of it is, these are different view points different school of thoughts
Adopt whichever works best for you. No one size fits all, don't over complicate it

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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:27 pm

If ur driver or long iron slice, u obviously have a swing prob. This prob is not so obvious in the shorter clubs like ur wedge and short/mid irons. This is why ppl say swing flaws are cruelly expose in longer clubs.

My advise to u is look for a good pro and he will be able to diagnose and solve ur prob. No use getting tips on forum as no one has seen ur swing and is definitely nit in a position to advise u.

My 2 cents bro 
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:48 pm

skybobo wrote:
If ur driver or long iron slice, u obviously have a swing prob. This prob is not so obvious in the shorter clubs like ur wedge and short/mid irons. This is why ppl say swing flaws are cruelly expose in longer clubs.

My advise to u is look for a good pro and he will be able to diagnose and solve ur prob. No use getting tips on forum as no one has seen ur swing and is definitely nit in a position to advise u.

My 2 cents bro 

Absolutely right! Unless T/S is gonna show us his swing on vidz in slow motion fashion ...

In my opinion, most if not all slicers usually fail to do a proper upswing turn and downswing turn in order to square the ball. If one try to use his hands to square the ball, he wouldn't be able to hit the ball straight consistently ...
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:42 am

jhan18 wrote:
Hi lionwoods.

4 factors that contribute to ballflight
1. Club face at impact
2. Centredness of strike
3. Swing Plane
4. Angle of attack

Most golfers understand that a slice derives from an open club face at impact, which you have correctly explained.
However most do not know the relationship between the 4 factors. For example. A most common slicer of a ball would have:
1. Club face open to target
2. Strike the ball off the heel
3 &4 outside in plane coupled with the downward descend of the club head onto the ball.

Now we can all see point 1,2,3 on video analysis and only 4 on a launch monitor.

I suggest the following:
1. Seek help from a professional club fitter. He will better your understanding of the those 4 factors and in the case for some, help restructure the concept of your golf swing. DGMan and ivangolffitting are expert club fitters on the forum. I'm sure they would be more than happy to assist you.
2. Seek help from a golf professional who has access to a launch monitor. Our professionals at Laguna are fortunate enough to have our students hit shots with the aid of one thanks to Torque golf's kind assistance and professional help.

Cheers
Very interesting, however laguna is too far for me. can not make it regular. is there "swing clinic" kind of training available?
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:49 am

skybobo wrote:
If ur driver or long iron slice, u obviously have a swing prob. This prob is not so obvious in the shorter clubs like ur wedge and short/mid irons. This is why ppl say swing flaws are cruelly expose in longer clubs.

My advise to u is look for a good pro and he will be able to diagnose and solve ur prob. No use getting tips on forum as no one has seen ur swing and is definitely nit in a position to advise u.

My 2 cents bro 
Hi Skybobo, this is very fair comment, the problem is from my swing. need to find a good pro. most of the pros can swing very good. the different between them is how they committed on the coaching.
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audi
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:31 am

correct. a good pro is not necessarily a good coach. he can play very well, but when it comes to teaching, not guaranteed good at it.
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:03 am

Bro, I do not think distance is a prob if u want to look for good coach. In US, pros travel across states just to attend lessons. I stay in simei and I used to go JCC to attend lessons on a sat morning 8am. But that's me lah. Diff ppl have diff priority.

Yes it's true Laguna has a number of good coaches, Allen Kelly, Justin han, Chang ren chiat to name a few.

Where do u stay bro? If convenient to let us know, maybe we can suggest some coaches for u.

Just bear in mind that good coach is hard to find. If u can, sacrifice a few hours to get quality instructions. It can save u lots of $$$ to buy equip to cure your swing and also lessen much time to try and figure out ur own and hopefully much enjoyable golf game
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jhan18
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:02 pm

lionwoods wrote:
jhan18 wrote:
Hi lionwoods.

4 factors that contribute to ballflight
1. Club face at impact
2. Centredness of strike
3. Swing Plane
4. Angle of attack

Most golfers understand that a slice derives from an open club face at impact, which you have correctly explained.
However most do not know the relationship between the 4 factors. For example. A most common slicer of a ball would have:
1. Club face open to target
2. Strike the ball off the heel
3 &4 outside in plane coupled with the downward descend of the club head onto the ball.!

Now we can all see point 1,2,3 on video analysis and only 4 on a launch monitor.

I suggest the following:
1. Seek help from a professional club fitter. He will better your understanding of the those 4 factors and in the case for some, help restructure the concept of your golf swing. DGMan and ivangolffitting are expert club fitters on the forum. I'm sure they would be more than happy to assist you.
2. Seek help from a golf professional who has access to a launch monitor. Our professionals at Laguna are fortunate enough to have our students hit shots with the aid of one thanks to Torque golf's kind assistance and professional help.

Cheers
Very interesting, however laguna is too far for me. can not make it regular. is there "swing clinic" kind of training available?


I'll be conducting a clinic near the end of the month. You are most welcome to come
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:31 pm

jhan18 wrote:
lionwoods wrote:
jhan18 wrote:
Hi lionwoods.

4 factors that contribute to ballflight
1. Club face at impact
2. Centredness of strike
3. Swing Plane
4. Angle of attack

Most golfers understand that a slice derives from an open club face at impact, which you have correctly explained.
However most do not know the relationship between the 4 factors. For example. A most common slicer of a ball would have:
1. Club face open to target
2. Strike the ball off the heel
3 &4 outside in plane coupled with the downward descend of the club head onto the ball.!

Now we can all see point 1,2,3 on video analysis and only 4 on a launch monitor.

I suggest the following:
1. Seek help from a professional club fitter. He will better your understanding of the those 4 factors and in the case for some, help restructure the concept of your golf swing. DGMan and ivangolffitting are expert club fitters on the forum. I'm sure they would be more than happy to assist you.
2. Seek help from a golf professional who has access to a launch monitor. Our professionals at Laguna are fortunate enough to have our students hit shots with the aid of one thanks to Torque golf's kind assistance and professional help.

Cheers
Very interesting, however laguna is too far for me. can not make it regular. is there "swing clinic" kind of training available?


I'll be conducting a clinic near the end of the month. You are most welcome to come
That is great, kindly PM me if the clinic date/time is confirmed. I might get me friend with me as well.
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lionwoods
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:38 pm

skybobo wrote:
Bro, I do not think distance is a prob if u want to look for good coach. In US, pros travel across states just to attend lessons. I stay in simei and I used to go JCC to attend lessons on a sat morning 8am. But that's me lah. Diff ppl have diff priority.

Yes it's true Laguna has a number of good coaches, Allen Kelly, Justin han, Chang ren chiat to name a few.

Where do u stay bro? If convenient to let us know, maybe we can suggest some coaches for u.

Just bear in mind that good coach is hard to find. If u can, sacrifice a few hours to get quality instructions. It can save u lots of $$$ to buy equip to cure your swing and also lessen much time to try and figure out ur own and hopefully much enjoyable golf game

As family man, it is hard to find a big slot of time to travel far for training. To be honest, most of my practice are happening after 9pm, which means my little monsters went to bed already. luckily, there are 3 ranges within 5 to 10 mins drive. BTW, I stay in West.
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skybobo
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PostSubject: Re: Club head release problem:Rythem , strength or club?   Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:12 pm

Bro, I understand ur concern. I too have a 17 mth old gal. To tell u honestly, after she arrived, I have never been to range after work. Hmm....in this case then all the more must make your practice time counts. U stay west, do I suppose cedan, jcc, fairway should be nearby. Jcc heartland has got dome good coaches. Prob u can take a look. Rates are not cheap tho
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