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 where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to

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Gray
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PostSubject: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:12 pm

The government of singapore lost us$600 million in a botch real estate deal after the investors failed to do due diligence and understand the laws before investing.

The answer is at the end of the article.

http://www.npr.org/2013/04/03/175511949/the-botched-ny-real-estate-deal-that-lost-other-people-billions?ft=1&f=2&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NprProgramsATC+%28NPR+Programs%3A+All+Things+Considered%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results[b]
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:29 pm

MUDHEAD NUMSKULLS...
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:59 pm

I don't mean to say that what happened with Singapore's money is OK but you should be happy you're not in Malaysia. RM871 billion siphoned out of the country from 2001-2010. The words "W T F" don't even begin to describe how many Malaysians must have felt.


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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:17 pm

Technospaz wrote:
I don't mean to say that what happened with Singapore's money is OK but you should be happy you're not in Malaysia. RM871 billion siphoned out of the country from 2001-2010. The words "W T F" don't even begin to describe how many Malaysians must have felt.



[img][/img]




thats how they siphoned off the money......

smart a$$....

flower
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:55 am

TS , not that we are not sympathetic with what is happening in Malaysia.. But we have no resources like oil, gas, timber etc unlike our neighbours. Every dollar that is lost in sg has to be made back from somewhere.. Cpf ? Income tax ? Profits from mrt ? It has to be accountable. We know that at least malaysians in sg can choose to withdraw their cpf when they leave sg. For singaporeans its not even a choice to be made.

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:00 am

Begbie wrote:
TS , not that we are not sympathetic with what is happening in Malaysia.. But we have no resources like oil, gas, timber etc unlike our neighbours. Every dollar that is lost in sg has to be made back from somewhere.. Cpf ? Income tax ? Profits from mrt ? It has to be accountable. We know that at least malaysians in sg can choose to withdraw their cpf when they leave sg. For singaporeans its not even a choice to be made.


When Malaysians withdraw their CPF, I don't think they'll be allowed back into Singapore as PRs or be entitled to work in Singapore ever. (If I'm wrong, I apologize). Essentially, as much as it may seem like a good thing to be able to withdraw their CPF, it's a death sentence (at least career wise in Singapore) for those who do so.

In any event, I believe that losses from a bad investment are unfortunate, if not gut-wrenching. But losses from theft, deceit and corruption is unacceptable.

I guess different countries have different issues. The grass is rarely greener on the other side.

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:01 am

Was in KL last weekend. A good fren of mine was telling me about the husband of this minister who is a charman of some Malaysian bank, who borrowed like 250m RM from the bank to buy cows and a farm, but instead bought himself and his family 2 properties in Marina bay, 2 properties costing RM9m each in Bangsar and a few other properties. No news about what happened to this person. However, the bank officer who wistle blowed was sacked for releasing private info to the public.

My frens and I came to the conclusion about what is the difference between Malaysia and Singapore Govt. Actually, there is no difference, Singapore Govt just have better Public Affairs team.
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:02 am

Bro Begbie ... as someone who is now paying income tax in M'sia (and it is a lot more than the amount paid for the equivalent amount in Singapore) ... i think the Malaysians have every right (if not more) to ask for their government to account for the money that has been siphoned off

They may have rich natural resources, but the income tax is still ridiculous (if compared with Singapore, not so with countries in Europe) and the fact that there is no control and a lot of people either underdeclare or do not pay income tax at all is really a sore point for those of us who work for MNCs or listed companies and must declare the full amount

At least in Singapore, even when the Govt loses money in investments, income tax is still low and payouts and tax rebates are given out almost every budget.

Also, I would definitely draw the line between a bad (or stupid) investment and money being stolen from the people, which is basically what corruption of that scale is.

Guess I am trying to say there are 2 sides to every coin but one thing is for sure, whether it is losing 1 BILLION SGD or almost 900 BILLION ringgit, they definitely have to answer for their actions

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:07 am

Anyway they will still take their pay happily. The money will be back to the funds, by the people. . affraid
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:29 am

I believe the garmen here is smart..... if anything , there must be a reason which sometimes cant be exposed openly to the public.

If I let my imagination run wild, this could be a lost where it indirectly 'fund' a certain group to win election somewhere and later in future, the new leader will help garmen...

nett...who knows...but I believe in garmen
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:32 am

I believe in good garments. Especially when playing golf in rugged areas... essential to keep the body clean.

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:40 am

Derek , TS, maybe u are right. I am lucky to be here in singapore. And the topic as well being abt money in singapore.
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:47 am

Begbie, you are correct. The topic is about money in Singapore.

It's horrible to see that tax payers money is being wiped out due to poor investments. I'm mortified.

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:48 am

Derek wrote:
Bro Begbie ... as someone who is now paying income tax in M'sia (and it is a lot more than the amount paid for the equivalent amount in Singapore) ... i think the Malaysians have every right (if not more) to ask for their government to account for the money that has been siphoned off

They may have rich natural resources, but the income tax is still ridiculous (if compared with Singapore, not so with countries in Europe) and the fact that there is no control and a lot of people either underdeclare or do not pay income tax at all is really a sore point for those of us who work for MNCs or listed companies and must declare the full amount

At least in Singapore, even when the Govt loses money in investments, income tax is still low and payouts and tax rebates are given out almost every budget.

Also, I would definitely draw the line between a bad (or stupid) investment and money being stolen from the people, which is basically what corruption of that scale is.

Guess I am trying to say there are 2 sides to every coin but one thing is for sure, whether it is losing 1 BILLION SGD or almost 900 BILLION ringgit, they definitely have to answer for their actions

Bro Derek, see u in kl in June. Im moving there too.. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:50 am

Technospaz wrote:
Begbie, you are correct. The topic is about money in Singapore.

It's horrible to see that tax payers money is being wiped out due to poor investments. I'm mortified.

Thank u. Im glad u feel so even with a strong hint of sarcasm. Im sorry abt the lost of ur reserves by the crooks they call politicians.
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:57 am

No sarcasm there. I just believe that there's crap everywhere... it's where you find the sunshine which counts.

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:14 am

Technospaz wrote:
No sarcasm there. I just believe that there's crap everywhere... it's where you find the sunshine which counts.

Like. But as shareholders of Singapore inc. We also nees accountability ya
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:17 am

Wow, I constantly read from the papers that we should be vigilant about such thing.......I din't know our Govt also got themself in the tangle also......man oh man
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:27 am

Wow, this is shocking.. wonder why it didn't come in the news over here !!
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:59 am

Take with a pinch of salt such open source articles.

It reeks of lack of information n credibility.

Did they lose 600m due to devaluation of the property? Lack of income from rent? Total loss of property due to government aquisition?

If they still own the property, thr is no need to raise an issue. Its like stocks n shares. If u have holding power, definitely cn see thru the down times. Cnt be everytime the stock market drop must report huge loss n be accountable right?

So far Singapore inc has been extremely accountable. Maintaining tax rates, intereste rates and payouts even though the world economy is suffering

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:52 pm

Accountability in political terms from the Government = You win some you lose some

At the bottom end of the accounts book it reads PROFIT on average, that's good enough.
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chien
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:52 pm


Sorry guys, as much as I feel the pinch (or punch) of losing $600m... I try to look from govt investment arm's point of view...

Maybe i give an analogy... Lets say G has $1,000. He has to achieve a minimum returns on this amount.. His objective is also not to allow this $1,000 sit idle because another $100 is coming in every year..

So, G decides to invest $100 in properties, $100 in equities, $100 in fixed incomes, $100 in emerging markets, $100 in funds, $100 in commodities etc till all his $1000 is used.. Something went wrong in one of his properties deals, and he lost $60.. Ok, but thats not going to stop him from investing in properties.. Similarly for other asset classes..

What i am trying to point out here guys, is, this $600m may be a huge amount to all of us, but, in the quantum of their overall investments portfolios, in this market and economic situation, you cannot avoid getting burnt once a while... And $600m could be recovered back from other investments...

All due respect to our neighbors, I am glad Singapore is as clean a country as can be, and we don't have cases of $100m missing from SIA or Singapore Power etc GLCs accounts...

cheers

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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:52 pm

chien wrote:

Sorry guys, as much as I feel the pinch (or punch) of losing $600m... I try to look from govt investment arm's point of view...

Maybe i give an analogy... Lets say G has $1,000. He has to achieve a minimum returns on this amount.. His objective is also not to allow this $1,000 sit idle because another $100 is coming in every year..

So, G decides to invest $100 in properties, $100 in equities, $100 in fixed incomes, $100 in emerging markets, $100 in funds, $100 in commodities etc till all his $1000 is used.. Something went wrong in one of his properties deals, and he lost $60.. Ok, but thats not going to stop him from investing in properties.. Similarly for other asset classes..

What i am trying to point out here guys, is, this $600m may be a huge amount to all of us, but, in the quantum of their overall investments portfolios, in this market and economic situation, you cannot avoid getting burnt once a while... And $600m could be recovered back from other investments...

All due respect to our neighbors, I am glad Singapore is as clean a country as can be, and we don't have cases of $100m missing from SIA or Singapore Power etc GLCs accounts...

cheers


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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:54 pm

Begbie wrote:
TS , not that we are not sympathetic with what is happening in Malaysia.. But we have no resources like oil, gas, timber etc unlike our neighbours. Every dollar that is lost in sg has to be made back from somewhere.. Cpf ? Income tax ? Profits from mrt ? It has to be accountable. We know that at least malaysians in sg can choose to withdraw their cpf when they leave sg. For singaporeans its not even a choice to be made.


Hate to comment but have you not heard of Temasek or GSIC? This is part of their Profit and Loss and overall they made billions per year after offsetting losses like this $600 million. Like Chien mentioned, there is no outright "pau chiak" (sure win) in investment. You win some you lose some. If got pau chiak, I will go and borrow from Ah Long San and do investment. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: where did the millions of Singaporean's $$$ go to   Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:34 pm

Tituman wrote:
Begbie wrote:
TS , not that we are not sympathetic with what is happening in Malaysia.. But we have no resources like oil, gas, timber etc unlike our neighbours. Every dollar that is lost in sg has to be made back from somewhere.. Cpf ? Income tax ? Profits from mrt ? It has to be accountable. We know that at least malaysians in sg can choose to withdraw their cpf when they leave sg. For singaporeans its not even a choice to be made.


Hate to comment but have you not heard of Temasek or GSIC? This is part of their Profit and Loss and overall they made billions per year after offsetting losses like this $600 million. Like Chien mentioned, there is no outright "pau chiak" (sure win) in investment. You win some you lose some. If got pau chiak, I will go and borrow from Ah Long San and do investment. Laughing

I think Chien has said it clear and said it well for a simple layman like most of us. All i hear u is echoing from within. Titu, if an argument is platable , i am always ready to reconsider.. But what u are doing is no better than shit stirring. No offense but i think its abt time u voice out something original for change Smile
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