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 Should local golf course support Junior??

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Ngn52
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PostSubject: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:02 am

Many young golfer play a round of golf paying S$80-S$120 (Weekday), problem being they're not allow to drive buggy (yet still need to pay for buggy fee!) It's alright to pay for buggy and most of time, it's difficult to get an adult to drive and golf with them (either they have their kaki or some think that junior is like beginner). My personal opinion to develop our future golfer, golf club should have provide a time slot for them to walk 9-holes (Like Monday where there's not much member is golfing?) I do know some club having walking 9-holes walking, but it's only for member's junior only!
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shorthitter
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:15 am

We have once a week the Juniors walk and carry their bags 9 holes.

We can also take them on course anytime to practice shots....
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pocketace
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:16 am

It's a rhetorical question
Our juniors from less than well off families would benefit if this is avail to them
I foresee them more hardworking and having more hunger to be successful

Gone are the days where we see someone like MM who came thru the ranks as a caddy to become Singapore no.1 golf pro.

Another area is Corporate Singapore is not stepping up to host professional events. Just look at the fate of our Singapore Open. Last time Accenture Singapore still sponsored a series of smaller local events. Where is our Singtel, Starhub, SIA, Sembcorp, etc?

We only have the hardware (lots of great courses) but no software...
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Ngn52
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:53 am

Hi Shothitter, thank you for your info., we all know golf is not an easy sport and it's very costly! I agreed with pocketace comments, kid from not so well off family they're more keen and hardworking, I've see many member's junior halfway give up, they find it not interesting. My older child was lucky to have a club supported her this year, but my 2nd one who's practice very hard on driving range but couldn't have a chance to go on course for practice. Thanks!
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Ngn52
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:59 am

Hi Pockerace, well said!! Except for HSBC who's still very supportive to junior golfer, don't really see much sponsors, can forget about Singtel or Starhub, they just want to organise event for the customer and partner, not interest in ours future!! SIA...horse racing....maybe some golf charity for show??
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Tiramisu
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:21 pm

I remember there was an event by 1st tee or MGK last yr to offer juniors who interested to learn golf at a very low fee. Frankly, I think there are some sports (like table tennis & badminton) usually got more supports and sponsorship. But I believe with YOG 2014 having golf event should be more awareness.
I do see many juniors are like being pushing to pick up golf from their parents. Many see golf as a prestige sport and link with the upper class social. For me, golf helps my active son to be more focus and patient. Wink
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goh.YF.52
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:31 pm

Ever thought of create golf as cca in poly but thinking of that how do I get so much support. Including hitting 1000 range balls and playing 2 9 holes on executive courses per month would easily cost more than 50sgd per month without calculating other one-time payment accessories and clubs. Singapore also do not have that much competition for us, hence how to get cca points when we want them.
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bigbanana14
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:04 pm

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Last edited by bigbanana14 on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chien
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:21 pm

I believe it is a national issue.. Don't blame the corporates yet, because even our own G is not setting the example, to support our own sportsmen like other countries..

It was only after so many years, we now have a Sports School, while Australia were already producing Olympics and World class performers..

Look at how much allowances the sportsmen are given and the rewards they would receive for performing, it is less than 0.001% of our reserves.. Just $10m per year more would have done so much for the young aspiring ones..

The support for young golfers will Always be challenged.. This is because Golf the sport itself is still being viewed as an elitist sports, so why would anybody need to sponsor a young golfer ?

But, I totally agree that our golf courses, private cubs and golf fraternities, should do more for the young golfers. Simply because, who is going to take over MM 5-10 years from now ?

It can be in various forms, e.g., golf courses opening certain time slots just for the national juniors to play FOC. They are at least 10 decent courses in Singapore, it is more than enough for the junior players to rotate and train.

Instead of making promising junior golfers pay for coaching fees, why can't clubs sponsor the players in return for them to represent them in tournaments?

Once we have a national interest, I am sure the Corporates ( especially the GLCs ) would follow suit (with a tap on their shoulders f they don't)...

cheers
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mrkatsucurry
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:15 am

I was at Pulai springs earlier this year.

What I found there was a week long golf camp.

Koreans flew in, coaches, kids, and parents.

Whole place and all courses booked out.

Not sure if singapore has its equivalent. Nor have I really started to look yet, since my 3 yo thinks my putting mat is the golf course.

Not being rude, but there are plenty of coaches in singapore. I'd dare to say it won't be too difficult to find out coaches who are good with kids.

Not enough courses in singapore. Or for that matter, practice facilities. Besides jcc, I can't think of grounds where I can practice pitching 60m off the grass. (I have contemplated some construction sites)

There's plenty across the causeway.

There's organising transport for a bunch of kids is possible.

Equipment wise, the kids could start with some old clubs first. If the kid can drive it 200m with some 1979 driver, I'm sure there's a second hand one reasonably priced.

There's the security issue as well of course.

I may be optimistic, but there could be a solution here.

I may be missing out something here, but if kindergartens can get public funding, why not a golf school.

A bit of travel involved, but maybe if someone or some school could run a few trials sessions to see the response.

Lots of good values golf can teach the kids. Etiquette is one very good dimension.

Of course I'm glossing over lots of details. And making very bold assumptions and some over generalizations.

But it's not impossible. There's a very vibrant social golfing scene here. Probably more vibrant with a 6.9m worst case population.
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EastCoastHack
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:54 am

I think there is plenty of support for junior golf here. From CCAs in primary schools to what NTUC/MGK does at Tanglin to a host of local youth competitions. Heck I count 12 youth events on the 2013 SGA calendar compared with only 2-3 general amateur events.

I would agree we could use a walking 9 hole opportunity for everybody, not just juniors, but it is probably not commercially feasable. MBGC does 10 minute gaps between 9H flights... providing 8 slots each on Monday and Tuesday afternoons. I know from experience they can't sell half of those on any given day. Would having a monthly or weekly "Walking 9" with 15 minute gaps between flights sell better? If you could organize 20 or more people for a special walking event maybe MBGC could help. If you could convince them to allow non-players to join (paying, properly dressed, and showing proper etiquette of course) it really opens up the possibilities.

"Time for Nine" link. Interesting idea! http://www.usga.org/news/2013/April/USGA-Joins--Time-For-Nine--Initiative/.













Last edited by EastCoastHack on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add Time for Nine link)
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chien
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:06 am

EastCoastHack wrote:
I think there is plenty of support for junior golf here. From CCAs in primary schools to what NTUC/MGK does at Tanglin to a host of local youth competitions. Heck I count 12 youth events on the 2013 SGA calendar compared with only 2-3 general amateur events.

I would agree we could use a walking 9 hole opportunity for everybody, not just juniors, but it is probably not commercially feasable. MBGC does 10 minute gaps between 9H flights... providing 8 slots each on Monday and Tuesday afternoons. I know from experience they can't sell half of those on any given day. Would having a monthly or weekly "Walking 9" with 15 minute gaps between flights sell better? If you could organize 20 or more people for a special walking event maybe MBGC could help. If you could convince them to allow non-players to join (paying, properly dressed, and showing proper etiquette of course) it really opens up the possibilities.

"Time for Nine" link. Interesting idea! http://www.usga.org/news/2013/April/USGA-Joins--Time-For-Nine--Initiative/.


Wanna know why MBGC 9H never worked? cos it is $50 for 9 holes !! ($80 for non sgp)

Try cutting to $20, and watch the queue.. You can start selling kacang puteh when they reduce the fees...

cheers

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coe16arg
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:09 am

There are quite a number of youth events, but not enough for under-12 serious golfers.

Most junior tounraments here have a cut-off age at 12yr. The under-12 serious golfers are not getting enough games (not counting playing on par-3 courses and mickey-mouse courses). I think that is why Ng started this thread about his daughter's experience.

EastCoastHack wrote:
I think there is plenty of support for junior golf here. From CCAs in primary schools to what NTUC/MGK does at Tanglin to a host of local youth competitions. Heck I count 12 youth events on the 2013 SGA calendar compared with only 2-3 general amateur events.

I would agree we could use a walking 9 hole opportunity for everybody, not just juniors, but it is probably not commercially feasable. MBGC does 10 minute gaps between 9H flights... providing 8 slots each on Monday and Tuesday afternoons. I know from experience they can't sell half of those on any given day. Would having a monthly or weekly "Walking 9" with 15 minute gaps between flights sell better? If you could organize 20 or more people for a special walking event maybe MBGC could help. If you could convince them to allow non-players to join (paying, properly dressed, and showing proper etiquette of course) it really opens up the possibilities.

"Time for Nine" link. Interesting idea! http://www.usga.org/news/2013/April/USGA-Joins--Time-For-Nine--Initiative/.











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Ngn52
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:03 am

Thanks to all comments! My view is not to create any problem for golf club or their members? I do see especially on Monday & Tuesday, many empty slot (In the afternoon), they maybe invite some younger junior with handicap to walk together? I'm also not asking for free golf but pay at a reasonable green fee. As for tournament only invite 12 yrs old and above, this also need to be review! I've see some below 12, playing very low score. Look at Malaysia and Thailand (I'm not sure about Indonesia and Brunei? Please give your view if you're from this 2 country?) The MGA and TGA support young golfer, access free or low green fee, even the junior is not a members! MGA insist all golf club to let junior play their course at RM10(9-holes), they're top golfers always play better than ours kid, of course sometime our players win, but out of 10 tournament, our winning is estm. 10-20% ratio?? Give your view please! If you're our junior players who don't own any golf club and struggle to find training group? I don't think 3-holes or short 9-holes is what the player want to practice? I agreed short PAR 3 is good practice for short game but, still need to play on actual courses. Thanks!
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dinomic
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:22 pm

I feel that SGA should take the lead and initiative. This is what an ASSOCIATION for. I had tried contacting them for support of the juniors and their response was "We cannot do anything, its up to the club". Honestly, what does SGA do beside listing the tournaments on their website, database for national hc book? Shouldn't they do something for junior golfer less than the offical age of 12? Perhaps liase with some clubs, or maybe just OCC will do.

OCC was completed in 1994 because of Mr Ong TC's vision. "Mr Ong was concerned with the notion of golf becoming a "game for executives only". He thus mooted the idea of developing a golf and country club for workers so that they would be allowed "a fair share of the fruits of Singapore's economic progress" in recognition of their contribution. As a result of his vision, the Orchid Country Club (believed to be the first country club for workers in the world) was completed in 1994" extract from http://ongtengcheong.com/mr_otc.htm

A non-member of OCC to walk 9hole on weekday cost $44, inclusive of "white card". This is not a price a worker can afford for this child.
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DLWL
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:09 pm

I dun think Tiger had the support of the authorities when he started. As a matter of fact, he played golf under severe discrimination n hardship. He was lucky to even play just coz his dad had a army membership. Blacks were not allowed on course .

The authorities cn only do so much imagine everything from ice hockey to play marble also ask for funding n laison. How many scholar u need.

If parents r keen to push. Then speak to the club directly. Or organise via this forum. Isn't it wad this place if for? Meet friends n organise games?

Y wait for things to happen. Make it happen
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chien
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:55 pm

DLWL wrote:
I dun think Tiger had the support of the authorities when he started. As a matter of fact, he played golf under severe discrimination n hardship. He was lucky to even play just coz his dad had a army membership. Blacks were not allowed on course .

The authorities cn only do so much imagine everything from ice hockey to play marble also ask for funding n laison. How many scholar u need.

If parents r keen to push. Then speak to the club directly. Or organise via this forum. Isn't it wad this place if for? Meet friends n organise games?

Y wait for things to happen. Make it happen

I believe this is exactly what Thread Starter Ng is trying to do, garner some comments and hopefully support...

I dont know whether anybody from the Associations are reading this... Hopefully they see that golfers in Singapore care about next generations of young golfers, and they should do something to help them...
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Artloh
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:45 pm

Here's my views coming from my personal experience as :

A parent of 3 Jr golfers (eldest 14 yrs in SGA's Development Squad & youngest 6 yrs a beginner)
A Member of a local golf club
A ex- committee mbr of a local golf club (handling the junior program)
A founding mbr of Junior Golf Association


For a parent's point of view, I totally agree with your view. However, it's not realistic. Few points to note.
Unlike our neighbouring countries which have hundreds of golf courses, sg has only 13 mbrs club + 1 public (MBGC) & 3 executive courses. Therefore the laws of demand and supply sets in.
Everything is expensive in sg. Even our subsidise healthcare is expensive. For 1RM, one can see a doctor + medication in M'sia. In Sg, a visit to a policlinic for a simple cough / cold will cost approx $8-10. That is approx 20-25 times more.
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Artloh
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:10 am

Apologies, allow me to continue.

The point about Jr's in M'sia paying $10 to walk 9 holes is also not correct. In fact, the majority of clubs in M'sia do not allow walking at all, Even for members. In sg,, some clubs, not all, allow walking for members with certain conditions. As for Jr's members, most if not all have guidelines to follow. Some impose age restriction, others must be accompanied by coach or parent.

As a member of a club, one must pay tens of thousands to join and couple of hundreds every month in subscription. When the lease is up, members must top up thousands of dollars. So do members want to "share" their club with non members? Majority will say no. Then there is the pace of play. Jr's are known to be really slow golfers. Most clubs require golfers to complete 9 holes in 4 hrs 10mins. I've yet to see a flt of 4 Jr's completing 9 holes within that time or even close. Slow play equates loss of revenue and complaints from members.

I believe yr 2nd daughter is around 7? Even as a mbr of a club, she may not be allowed on the course as stated in the clubs constitution. Some courses may allow if you take up additional insurance as their blanket insurance coverage has a min age requirement. Since she's never been on a course, executive at mandai or tanglin may be a alternative. My younger kids play there too.

As for competitions for kids below 12, there are at least 6 in sg which your elder daughter can take part. JGA organises 3 during the school holidays. Then there is the Seletar and Sicc Jr open which are WAGR counting events too. The SLGA ladies open is in May. She can play too if she wants. If we peep across the causeway, you can easily find 10 more events to play in. Once she''s turns 12 yrs, and she's a good golfer, there's at least another 10 events she can play in sg. Unfortunately most are during school days. Will you allow her to skip school? My eldest girl attended only 28 weeks of school (out of 40) and even missed her final exams in sec 1 because of golf. it took a toll on her studies and we had to employ tuition teachers to help her.

Our education system is another stumbling block. Golf is time consuming. Are Singaporeans prepared to forgo education to pursue a golfing career? Having been to numerous overseas jr tournaments and spoken to many parents there, most if not all the top Jr's in M'sia are either home school or they attend private or international school. They spend about 40 hrs training a week. And yes, they are also complaining that it's very expensive for them with not much assistance from MGA. Forget about Thailand. Most of their top jr golfer do not even attend school!!

I can go on and on...... But to summarise it, unfortunately golf, like it or not, is a elitist sport and not for the masses. At least not in land scarce Sg. To give you a ball park figure, for a competitive golfing jr, expenses a yr (coaching, tournament fees, travelling, range ball, clothing & equipment, etc) ranges form $6-$12 K.

If JW and her sis are really into golf & walking 9 holes is your priority, I'll strongly suggest you consider getting a membership at a local club. Changi & keppel golf club are quite affordable and they allow Jr's to walk too.

Seriously, many parents have bitch and gone through what you are going through now and the conclusion is still the same. Help yourself!. It's the reality of life in Sg.

Drop me a line or PM if any clarification is needed.


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Ngn52
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:43 am

Thanks! ArtLoh for your comments, My suggestion is not to jeopardise the clubs rules, or trying take away members' privileges. I am consider for the future golfer in Singapore. My 2 daughter are well taking off by local club now, I'm trying to see other possible way to help some family who's not well off and their kids in strong interest and telanted in golf. As mentioned in my earlier statment, most of Monday and Tuesday, course is quiet and no member would prefer to golf on these day, why not let some younger golfers, who has handicap to walk 9-holes and let thme learn how to speed up play? We started golf also learning from mistake, we play slow, learn to shout "FORE"! when our ball slice, repair ball mark and divots etc.. Let the childs had a chance to learn and improve, we should tkae serious consideration for them as our future! Get back to the point, we do not have MUCH strong candidate to Sea Game, not even talk about Olympics! In order to be able to in top reasonable ranking, we should open up...thanks!
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Ngn52
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:50 am

Hi Art, one more thing I have to compliment, well done for supporting your girl to be our future champion!!
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Artloh
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:36 am

Hi Ng, thanks for yr compliment. But for my daughter to be a future champion is the furthest thing from my mind. As parents, we try do give our kids the best to our ability. Given our limited resources, education system and mindset of Singaporeans, realistically it's hard to groom a world class athlete. Then again, the kid must also be "gifted" to a certain extend to succeed.

I'm glad to hear that your two girls are given access to a local club to train. Such arrangements are already in place for a long time for Jr's who display a flair for golf. Couple of yrs back, I spotted a 9 yr old girl who I thought was quite talented and arranged for her to be given access to train in a local club like yr kids. Such arrangements do exist. However its only for the better players who display some talent. Parents must still do the initial part to get them there. Imagine the scenario where golf clubs open their doors on Monday evenings for kids to walk 9 holes. Assuming 0.5% of our kids between ages 6-18 plays golf. We are talking about about 2300 kids. Even if we take 10% of 2300, it's 230 kids. Do clubs have the capacity? Then there will be kids in afternoon school, CCA or tuition. Some Parents will then ask why not open monday mornings which is even less crowded or weekends?

Generally Mondays and Tuesdays are maintenance days for most clubs. The greens needs to rest and maintenance work carried out. Clubs with 18 holes will only open 9 holes. Therefore it can get quite crowded, even on monday evenings. Add inclement weather where control of play thru time sheet is disrupted, sometimes members and guest cannot even finish their round by sunset.

When Bob Tan became President of SGA, He mooted the idea of clubs giving access or our local pros to play. I'm not sure if it has taken off completely, but I think the top 10 pros on SPGA OOM are given access once a month to playin all 13 clubs. And some clubs do give them preferential rates when SPGA organises events.

The last 2 yrs have seen SGA & SLGA opening their doors to younger golfers. Last year we saw a 11 yr old taking part in SNAC (Singapore National Amateur Championship) and we are seeing kids as young as 12yrs given the opportunity to participate and play alongside NS & DS players in the National Ranking Games. One club has also open their 9 hole executive course for our National Team players to train. Sports school players are also given access at a local club. We are definitely moving in the right direction. But with our very limited resources, there's only so much that can be done. The laws of demand and supply will eventually moderate.

On a slightly different note how much are we paying per hour for lessons for jr golfers? Are pros willing to give discounted lessons to help boost the talent pool and to encourage more kids to pick up golf by making it more affordable? Maybe some pros & parents can give us your view.






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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:05 pm

Hey,

Let me share something something about Junior Golf in my country.

Our country is subdivided to 3 large island.

Junior Golf is now "Hot" because of following reasons:

Every parents saw the triumphs of the Korean lady golfers, and reading their monetary rewards.
Other parents dream their kids would be able to become "Golf Scholars" in United States.
Getting educated at prestigious schools & playing Golf for their University school w/c makes "their parents PROUD" because it means their kid is "Good" in Intelligence & in Golf.

Since two years ago, our local University school have been sponsoring Golf competition between all school. Winning Schools always "teased" their school competitors.

Then our Golf Pro Tours are giving, new & old Golf Pros, "Hope" for them to earn a living. Just like those Professional Basketball & Football Players.

Lastly, every parents wished or hope you know that their kid would somehow become another Tiger Wood, who is the most richest Sports Athlete in the world.

While other athletes retire upon reaching 40's. Golfers can still play competitive Golf at age 50 or more.
Just look at Fred Couples who was on the hunt during the recent Master etc.

And they can also design golf courses on the side if their name is quite Popular.

Lastly, our Junior Golfers are not allowed to ride in cart. They have to push or pull their own Golf cart, these will give them an edge against those who are accustomed to caddies.

Walking will also strengthen their lower body too, making them stronger as they play golf. Just like a Boxer, Power comes from the hips, the legs and feet .

I think every country should support Junior Golfers. It will helped JunGolfers another avenue to learn that Life is not easy.
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Ngn52
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:05 am

Hi ArtLoh, reading your last para, I think I have to give some opinion on Pros to give discount to Junior is not being fair to them. Singapore is a small market for teaching Pros, I see many just able to make a living and I'm not sure some maybe struggle for being a teaching pros? I strongly believed they should be able to make some money but give the kids the best training/skill as possible! Once the kids or parents recog the Pros is good for the child, they will continue working with him/her. But still come to my point, Golf Club should be open up for the kids, we're not asking for 2,300 kids to play at once, the club know how to work out and they should be able to make some revenue from there? Just like member who want to play on weekend, they need to quene for their flight, same can apply to junior golfers, if my kid want to play at some club that allow(to play on Monday/Tuesday(or we call it off perk hours), I don't mind to quene for them! I do understand in short term, club maybe incurr lot of work and unhappiness, but look at long term goal! HybriD give a very good point, we must support the junior golf! Looking at the current junior golfers gap, I think we're lossing out juniors each years. I do recog to have our local tour playing Pros should have free access to any club, these should be immediate task for the SGA to work out!
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PostSubject: Re: Should local golf course support Junior??   Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:54 pm

Saw alot of kids playing at NSRCC ytd... Think they are doing a great job supporting our juniors
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