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 Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here

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DKing
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 2:36 pm

I don't quite grasp the concept.

The thing is, interaction shouldn't need to be encouraged else it means nothing. If you have something to say, say it. If not just read and find out more. Do it seem clearer now that the 50 minimum posts will not affect anything here?

You are right in saying that encouraging people to be creative and smart in posting is not the desired outcome.

The question we should be asking is, who are the people having issues with the 50 minimum posts? Genuine, sincere golfers looking for information and discussion or people who just want to make use of this platform to sell?


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DLWL
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 2:47 pm

I think both.

People who have things to sell find it a pain to think of something smart to say. or simply can't be bothered.

The people who are already "lao jiao" in the forum find it a nuisance and annoyance to see 50 bumps in the right hand column.

That's exactly why this thread was created right? Because our forummers find it an eyesore.

So that's what i mean. The scheme does not serve the greater purpose yet annoys both guilty and innocent parties.
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DKing
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 2:57 pm

Seems like the morning booze has loosen my tongue or rather my fingers in this case.

I would like to offer my apologies if anyone has taken offense at what I've said.
For the record, I am merely being objective and nothing personal.

It just frustrating that people can't seem to understand that if they face an obstacle achieving their objective here, perhaps it meant that this isn't the place for them to do so.

Cheers to healthy banter.
Time to stock up Smile
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beehome
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 3:01 pm

I prefer it this way - 50 posts minimum than previously. Although it is not perfect and I don't think it will ever be but at least it makes those who want to join just to sell something a bit more troublesome eg like being creative or whatever u want to call it.

These ppl who join just to sell something and chalk up as many posts as possible in as quickly as they can, are simply inconsiderate.

There are so many things good about GR and I believe that is the reason why most of us join. Selling stuff is never the main objective. Inconsiderate ppl are everywhere. It is something that we have to live with. Let's not argue among ourselves. We should unite and frown on this inconsiderate behaviour.

Spare a thought for the mods. They may be cracking their heads now whereas we just write a post or two.
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DLWL
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 3:10 pm

Thanks Bro beehome.
No attempts to argue. But up for friendly debate and feedback to the "governence" of GR.

Your points are exactly my sentiments and i commented coz i find the thread relatively well-mannered as compared to previous heated discussions. haha *no offence*

Nobody likes the spamming on the threads and some people dun like posts such as this which makes us out to be snobbish and elitist. Can't please everyone.

I think everyone has made relevant points with regards to their opinion on this matter and lets agree to disagree.

If the mods find that this is the best way at this point of time.
We should respect their decision.

Cheers and good golf
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 3:17 pm

Cheers Jump


is this what i want noob to post just to reach 50???


cos we have 2 instances of noob either posting emoticons or some stupid short reply...




whats wrong of any noob introducing themselves in their own thread n let us getting to know him/her.... much easire to reach 50 posts this way


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DKing
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 3:24 pm

Here we have the crux of the matter.
You said, "people who have things to sell".

50 minimum posts is a deterrent for people who only have things to sell.

Let me try and sell new members this suggestion, there are many places to make a sale. Try asking in this forum where one might be able to do so instead of firing away meaningless posts in a short span so one can post in Marketplace. This is a great convenient place to sell but please understand, it is not meant to be made use by any random person. I believe the founders would like to reserve this privilege to those who have contributed positively.

So if you are new, welcome to this place of friends and information.
You may have items to sell along the way, and please bear with it if you haven't got to where you can exercise this privilege. If you genuinely need to make a sale desperately, you can always ask for help.



DLWL wrote:
I think both.

People who have things to sell find it a pain to think of something smart to say. or simply can't be bothered.

The people who are already "lao jiao" in the forum find it a nuisance and annoyance to see 50 bumps in the right hand column.

That's exactly why this thread was created right? Because our forummers find it an eyesore.

So that's what i mean. The scheme does not serve the greater purpose yet annoys both guilty and innocent parties.
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 3:28 pm

DKing wrote:
Here we have the crux of the matter.
You said, "people who have things to sell".

50 minimum posts is a deterrent for people who only have things to sell.

Let me try and sell new members this suggestion, there are many places to make a sale. Try asking in this forum where one might be able to do so instead of firing away meaningless posts in a short span so one can post in Marketplace. This is a great convenient place to sell but please understand, it is not meant to be made use by any random person. I believe the founders would like to reserve this privilege to those who have contributed positively.

So if you are new, welcome to this place of friends and information.
You may have items to sell along the way, and please bear with it if you haven't got to where you can exercise this privilege. If you genuinely need to make a sale desperately, you can always ask for help.



DLWL wrote:
I think both.

People who have things to sell find it a pain to think of something smart to say. or simply can't be bothered.

The people who are already "lao jiao" in the forum find it a nuisance and annoyance to see 50 bumps in the right hand column.

That's exactly why this thread was created right? Because our forummers find it an eyesore.

So that's what i mean. The scheme does not serve the greater purpose yet annoys both guilty and innocent parties.



+1.....











another simple post....
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haragolfer
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 4:56 pm

50 posts for us to have a conversation with any noob willing to share and chat. not tough. not annoying. just chatting. after 50 posts. sell if yiu want. buy anytime u want. we all llove buyers.

forum guys . purpose is ttalking about stuff. like getting to know someone, without judgement. if it was made for trading is called ...... craigslist.sg. dont need to talk. just sell. like a geylang transaction.
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 5:14 pm

haragolfer wrote:
50 posts for us to have a conversation with any noob willing to share and chat. not tough. not annoying. just chatting. after 50 posts. sell if yiu want. buy anytime u want. we all llove buyers.

forum guys . purpose is ttalking about stuff. like getting to know someone, without judgement. if it was made for trading is called ...... craigslist.sg. dont need to talk. just sell. like a geylang transaction.
Obviously we are a gang orf unfriendly noob, maybe not up to his standrad of golf. Sad
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weesern
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 5:46 pm

i believe it as posted by one of the mods here that if posts are meant for chalking up 50 posts/ seems that way, he will be banned.

That would more or less explains why there is a min 50 post rule.

@underdog, good that you have introduce this forum to your friends but if their reactions to the 50 posts is that adverse, guess their main motive of joining is to sell.

Maybe the mods need to put the objectives of having this forum as the main page so anyone who enters will understand.

i think whoever joins just to sell and post nonsenses just to reach 50 posts, please do not be so self centred and only think for yourself. to achieve what you want, the rest of us have to go thru your rubbish... I do not think you will accept such things from your subordinates/children.

Guess I have just offended those who are guilty...
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asahi
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Fri May 24, 2013 7:41 pm

This is not a place to sell stuff solely. Period.
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Vinny
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 2:07 pm

Derek wrote:
Pls stop spamming. It is obvious your comments are solely meant to chalk up the posts needed for marketplace.

Just tell us what you are planning to sell here.

Whose Wtapz.....??

Thought this topic is passé.....?? Hmmm, seems like we haven't gotten over this issue and grey area yet to be addressed.....??

Nonetheless, trust that both the course marshals & caddies are maintaining this forum to the best of their effort in being a informative & friendly place of exchange for both "oldies" & noobs who share common interest in this wonderful sport

Peace
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 5:26 pm

Underdog wrote:
Guys,
I'm jz curious. In what way, do we really expect a newly joint members to hit a minimum required 50-post (in order to be able to participate in the subsequent WTS marketplace)?

Granted, they could be new to the forum in many ways;
1. Beginner,
2. Foreigner,
3. Newbies without known kakis in the forum (unlike most of old-timers in the forum),
4. Heard abt the friendly forum, but little knowledge on our "behaviour"
5. Etc...

If he's trying to hit 50 posts, obviously he had read the rules and may have something to sell, as this rule (especially the new 50 post) was called by the forum. I'm not sure if the rule emphasized that comment posted by newbies must not be "nonsense", but likewise I'm quite sure the rule also did not state that he can't do it within day or days.

And seriously, why do older forumer like us, who were perhaps "lucky in certain way" we don't have to struggle the 50 posts like the newbies now, think they shld be banned once they hit 50 posts? Or has GR ever holds a banter "Member Has Its Privilege" (like American Express Very Happy ) to ensure while existing members enjoy all the activities and conversation, newbies "pls work harder, smarter and importantly... slower!"?

My comment may not go down well with most "existing members" but the reason I ask is, I was talking to a few golfing friends, recommending them to join the forum. But days later, they came back after reading the rules and when I was asked about the rules of 50 posts, I chuckle and had to tell them this... "To avoid being torched, split your 50 nonsense and bullshit all over the places into 3-6 months and you're likely save, GRian do not like to see nonsense within same day or days, although technically they're the same piece of bullshit"

My friends jz stared at me stunned. And this is how "friendly" we proclaim GR is...



Underdog,

Thanks for spreading the word around about Golf Republic.

Your post was interesting, and prompted a few thoughts of my own in response.

If your friends were stunned at the 50 posts rule, I'd be willing to bet they'd be turned off even more if GR had a rule book that is a compulsory read for every new member. A rule book that is the end result every complaint by a forummer who needs a litany of dos and dont's, who needs everything spelt out form A to Z just to be clear of the boundaries. A rule book that grows thicker with every complaint until it bloats to the size of phone book. Methinks that is infinitely more unfriendly than just a simple 50 posts ruling. Yet ironically, that is what you are asking for. Better to keep it simple no?

Like it or not, the 50 posts ruling also serves the purpose of a red flag. Post away I say, let others here see a newbie for what he is, and if on the 51st post the newbie pops up with something to sell, all here would have already received ample warning of the intention to make a quick buck at the expense of our community here.

All that time and effort by the mods and administrators to draft out a set of static rules, yet they still go unread by some. How about the alternative of a living breathing community of golfers ready to jump in and ask "Eh bro/sista, you here for golf or what?" Isn't self governance so much better?

Self governance rules, and is so much friendlier than a rule book for new members.

Cheers Jump Peace

ps: The administrators set up this forum at their own expense. The mods and caddies? we're volunteers, here for the same reason you are, for the love of the game. Just willing to sacrifice a little more time and effort to serve this home that we call Golf Republic.

No one is seeking to restrict comments and criticisms, bring them on. If they benefit Golf Republic as a whole, there is no reason why they should not be adopted, as long as it is within the means of the administrators, mods, and caddies.


Last edited by Birdman on Sat May 25, 2013 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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smokey
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 5:41 pm

Wonder if those new joiners read the rules properly before clicking "agree/accept" when joining.
Cos guess most people wd not as most wd jus scroll right down to accept.

How about having a couple of questions to be answered correctly before they can be accepted? One such question has gotta be related to the Marketplace for selling. At least they are made to read the rules.

Worth trying?

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hkhamateur
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 5:50 pm

smokey wrote:
Wonder if those new joiners read the rules properly before clicking "agree/accept" when joining.
Cos guess most people wd not as most wd jus scroll right down to accept.

How about having a couple of questions to be answered correctly before they can be accepted? One such question has gotta be related to the Marketplace for selling. At least they are made to read the rules.

Worth trying?


Yea....nt bad idea. Smile
Remb at certain online bank application or newly sign up member ll probe u few relevant related quest. Wink
Can try it GR. cheers
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 5:50 pm

smokey wrote:
Wonder if those new joiners read the rules properly before clicking "agree/accept" when joining.
Cos guess most people wd not as most wd jus scroll right down to accept.

How about having a couple of questions to be answered correctly before they can be accepted? One such question has gotta be related to the Marketplace for selling. At least they are made to read the rules.

Worth trying?


No need for the extra step, admin, mods and caddies also want to play golf after work like you too. Swing

This thread is already proof enough that self governance by the community is simpler, less restrictive, and more effective.
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chukeenon
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 6:46 pm

I just want to say that the rules here are a little unusual...similar to the culture here in Singapore in trying to create an obedient society. Just my 2 cents. Is the ability to sell equipment here really that much a privilege?

However, at the end of the day I joined GR knowing the rules and abide by them without any issues.

Just note that the more rules one creates the more opportunity for bending and breaking...
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marmarchen
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 8:00 pm

FroztByte wrote:
I've been a newbie for quite some time and I don't mind the 50 posts minimum. I think it helps prevent random people who aims to join as a way of making a sale (worst if those people are trying to sell fake clubs). To me, the 50 post minimum helps maintain trust among forum-ers during the buying or selling process (there might be some hardworking black sheep out there but the rule helps keep it to a minimum). I trust this site more than ebay.

For me I joined not to sell but to read on the latest info on golf. I don't have much kakis and I'm not very good at golf so this site makes sure I don't miss much of anything. It's interesting to read on opinions though I don't participate much. I'm not much of an online chatter and even less of a forum post-er which is the reason for my low post count but i do visit this forum daily...hahaha

As a noob, I fully agree with your points! I come regularly to read and learn, it gets frustrating when I look at the latest topics and its all flooded with lame postings from a newbie trying to hit 50. farao farao
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hkhamateur
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 8:25 pm

marmarchen wrote:
FroztByte wrote:
I've been a newbie for quite some time and I don't mind the 50 posts minimum. I think it helps prevent random people who aims to join as a way of making a sale (worst if those people are trying to sell fake clubs). To me, the 50 post minimum helps maintain trust among forum-ers during the buying or selling process (there might be some hardworking black sheep out there but the rule helps keep it to a minimum). I trust this site more than ebay.

For me I joined not to sell but to read on the latest info on golf. I don't have much kakis and I'm not very good at golf so this site makes sure I don't miss much of anything. It's interesting to read on opinions though I don't participate much. I'm not much of an online chatter and even less of a forum post-er which is the reason for my low post count but i do visit this forum daily...hahaha

As a noob, I fully agree with your points! I come regularly to read and learn, it gets frustrating when I look at the latest topics and its all flooded with lame postings from a newbie trying to hit 50. farao farao

Tats the way to go bro Frozbyte & marmarchen! Very Happy
If yr intentions re clear to learn, makg friends, sparring partners, off topic experiences here, so wat re these min. 100 posts or even 1000 posts means right! Wink
U re sure to get this numbers in no time or at most, ask yr friends here whom has met the min. criteria to longpunk yr wanna sell item(s). Smile
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 8:57 pm

This topic comes up at least once a month (ok, once every two months).

Some background facts:

1. GR is a not-for-profit forum. While GR may carry logos of T, FJ, GP and GV below, I'm not aware of any funds flowing in from these companies. It's all done out of goodwill.

2. GR costs money to run. Unlike what some may think, there is a $ cost involved in running a forum, particularly one which is reasonably mature by local standards (putting aside forums like HWZ and SBF).

3. GR caters to everyone who has a vague interest in golf. We have golfers of varying levels, wants, needs etc. We have golfers from all over the world too though most are in Singapore.

Given the above, what the Admin and Mods are looking for is for users to treat GR as a golf forum FIRST and a marketplace SECOND.

GR was never established to serve as a trading platform. It was built to connect golfers, promote golf as a sport, encourage lively golf discussion and debate, and facilitate the setting up of golf games. It was only natural that a WTS/WTB/WTT section was born after many golfers signed up. But it was never the primary goal though GR has a very active golf marketplace.

So, for users to register and log on for the sole purpose of selling a golf item and then vanish never to be heard of again runs contrary to the purpose of GR. To help prevent this, the 50 post minimum was developed. It was hoped that users would take this opportunity to participate in GR at their own pace (some move faster than others) and get to know the others.

It's not difficult to clock 50 posts if you're sincere in participating in golf discussions. However, if a user's sole purpose is to pawn off an item here, that 50 post minimum will seem like an insurmountable obstacle. So, what a lot of these users do to rack up a post count is to spam the forum with mindless rubbish. This runs afoul of the letter and spirit of GR's regulations not to mention is evidence of that user's lack of respect for the forum, regulations and members as a whole. So, Mods will take the necessary action.

So, let's sum up:

- If a user is keen to participate in GR with the eventual possibility of buying or selling something on the GR marketplace, the 50 post minimum should be a breeze. Think of it as an opportunity to meet the golfers here. There are many, all are great folk, most love the sport (some more than others) and there's a lot to discuss, share and learn.

- If a user simply wants to sell an item on GR, perhaps eBay or other sites are more suitable. These are tailored specifically for trading. GR isn't, and that's the way it is.

Now... I'll wait for the next time this issue comes up. Then, it's rinse, wash and repeat.

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mrkatsucurry
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 9:57 pm

Maybe a one month period before you can start a wts topic?

Prevents spamming, and more genuine members will understand.

Just an idea.

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DLWL
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sat May 25, 2013 11:02 pm

+1

I believe time is more useful than the 50post min. Disclaimer, I am not in support of people just joining for sake of selling too. (though I do find trading for golf stuff part of the fun)

Why?
1) Cause u can't fast forward time. Serious forummers will be retained.
2) I am not against min post. But 50 post only encourages rubbish post.

Suggestion.
Implement both, but reduce from 50 back to 20.
To post 50 post of useful stuff is really tough. Even for serious forummers.
Eg.
Intro: Max 10 posts?
Jokes: another 10 posts?
Ask questions: 10-20 posts? (provided some "lao jiao" don't either scold the newbie for not using the search function. There is really nothing much that has not been discussed before)

I truly believe that 50 post is not helping the issue but causing more inconvenience to serious forummers. A combination sounds plausible.

Once again,
am just making a suggestion for the good of the Forum. Though, I know the forum is owned by Sunny and Missmoon (Thanks btw, great initiative!). There should be some room for democracy to improve the place we enjoy right, since this topic is so polarizing =)

Final decision lies with the owners and the capable mods here.
But just raising some issues that are maybe blind spots in the governance.

mrkatsucurry wrote:
Maybe a one month period before you can start a wts topic?

Prevents spamming, and more genuine members will understand.

Just an idea.

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callsign75
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sun May 26, 2013 12:15 am

With GR gaining momentum with fellow golfers, this will not be the last of this topic....
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pushslice
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PostSubject: Re: Wtapz ... Pls tell us what you want to sell here   Sun May 26, 2013 12:28 am

My personal view is to not let a few inconsiderate people make us forget the big picture. I honestly believe that the number of golf discussions have increased since the min post was raised. For every spammer, we get more than one newbie to join the discussions, be more active. Few months back, the forum was a total domination of marketplace threads

If the mods are online, we will stop the spammers. But I def think we need more volunteers, maybe higher ups can consider Very Happy
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