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 Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.

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beehome
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PostSubject: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:03 pm

Hi fellow Grians,

Sharing a thought here and hopefully someone may enlighten me.

Recently I was in Japan and played 2 rounds in Hokkiado.

Before I left for Japan, 2 of my Japanese friends told me that it is cheaper to golf there. Many of Singapore friends do not believe me when I told them this.

I am back and this question still bugs me - why it is cheaper to golf in Japan than Singapore? I paid S$80-90 (all-in) for 18holes on a weekday. Weekend rate is S$130-140. Both are private country clubs. Courses are superbly maintained.

Are we been taken for a ride here? Besides golfing related stuff, I realised that quite a number of things are expensive in Singapore.

Does anyone know why? TQ.

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coe16arg
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:11 pm

Becos Japan still in recession?
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beehome
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:14 pm

Bro coe16arg, possible. Too many courses and not enough players.

Does anyone know if the rates were higher b4? like 5 or 10 years ago?
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chien
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:24 pm

Beehome..

Why no pics of the courses and reviews by you one??? Show le.. So i can convince my wife to go
on a family holiday in Hokkaido Very Happy 

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coe16arg
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:28 pm

See below article written in 2009, true or not i dunno...i have not set foot on japanese soil before.


Expensive Golf Memberships in Japan

Some of the most exclusive golf clubs in Japan have clubhouses with paintings by Monet and Chagall and bathrooms with solid gold fixtures. Green fees for a single game can cost $600 or more and memberships at leading golf courses can go for up to $1 million. Golf memberships used to be so valuable they were sometimes bought and sold like stocks as investments. One reason why golf is so expensive is that land is very expensive in Japan and golf course takes up a lot of space.


One of the most prestigious clubs is Hourin Country Club, 50 miles northwest of Tokyo. Completed in 1988 at a cost of $300 million and designed by an architect who has built gardens at the Imperial Palace, it features a club house with 25-foot-high marble pillars and ceiling skylights, perfectly-manicured fairways and greens, gardens with cherry trees, streams and waterfalls, ponds filled with carp, and restaurants that serve dinner on silver platters. If you wanted to remember your outing you can purchase a Hourin gold belt buckle for $2,200 or a dinner ser2vice set for six for $41,000.


Other courses have beautiful flower beds set up around the tees, food and drink kiosks every three holes and $70 million club houses. Golfers are often required to spend a lot of money on expensive services and are required to get a caddy and have lunch after the 9th hole.


Many Japanese golfers find it cheaper to fly to a Hawaii or Thailand to play golf than to play golf at home. Japanese investors have financed numerous golf courses in Malaysia, Indonesia, Hawaii, Thailand and Singapore to cater to Japanese golfers. .



Debt Ridden Japanese Golf Clubs


After the bubble economy burst the in the 1990s, golf clubs were hit hard. The value of membership plummeted and many clubs teetered on the edge of collapse. In 2001, about 90 percent of Japan's 2,400 golf clubs were in debt and 1,700 of them were either bankrupt of in desperate financial straights. According some estimates 20 percent of the $1.2 trillion in bad loan debts in Japan were related to golf. This is more money than the GNP of Ireland or New Zealand.


Between 1991 and 2005, more that 630 Japanese golf courses, with about $136 billion of debt, failed.Bankruptcies peaked in the early 2000s. Between 2000 and 2003, 265 courses went bankrupt. With total liabilities of $61 billion. More than 100 went bust in 2003 alone.


Hourin memberships fees fell from $700,000 to $35,000. The club fell on such hard times it resorted to distributing fliers to weekend middle class duffers who jump at the opportunity to play for $130 a pop. Investors who paid $91,000 for shares of membership in the belief that could easily triple their money found themselves with membership that were worth $300.


Golfers without a lot of money welcome the change. In some cases golf club investors filed lawsuits and joined the yakuza to try to get their money back.



Changes at Japanese Golf Clubs


There are basically two kinds of clubs now: 1) high end courses that have survived: and 2) lower end, semi-public courses with lower fees for members and visitors.


A typical semi-public courses has lowered its weekend green fees to ¥6,000, a third of what they were in the 1990s, to stave off bankruptcy and new golfers. Members complain the courses have become too crowded. Many courses are back in the black in terms of daily cash flow but use much of their income to pay past debts.


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DLWL
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:55 pm

Golf is basically a real estate business. Its predominantly based on how much land there is. Well, in Sg, Land is a premium. Coupled with the high spending power of the people and relatively large number of golfers. Its not difficult to see why the Golf courses have to charge a certain rate to stay in business.

Im more curious to know why a Sandwich in Switzerland can cost 16-20Euros, when their income per annum is around 30k Euro.
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pocketace
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:59 pm

I am interested to know which courses you played in Hokkaido too

I went to Hokkaido recently on vacation, no golf though. I was at this golf club called Sapporo Kitahiroshima Golf Club next to my hotel. They have 3 18-hole courses. I went to the club house to have a look. Inside the changing room, their local practice is to take off shoes and put it in pigeon hole before heading to your own locker and shower area. Their golf carts have 2 rows of seats, can put 4 golf bags. So, one flight is one golf cart. Just some unique observations

How I wished I could play. I didn't enquire bout the green fees though. My local Japanese friend remarked that green fees are cheaper in Hokkaido compared to, say, Tokyo.
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flamer0454
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:37 pm

if golf was an affordable game, HDB would have built golf courses instead of open air courts.. cheers!Smile 
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Agn Teh
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:37 pm

Which course u played....bro...condition of golf course really good kah??
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18underPar
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:34 am

We played in Singapore at the Marina Bay Sands Golf Course around two years ago and I remember it being one of the most expensive rounds I've ever played. Since we were visitors, it was about $225 per person!

Chamber's Bay (2015 US Open Course) is about $219 USD at peak times... Pebble Beach is about $500 USD!
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iron eagle
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:54 am

coe16arg wrote:
Becos Japan still in recession?

Japan is more realistic and down to earth whereas SG
golf club just want to make a kill while golf is popular!

Another problem is club membership fee, probably the
highest in World! So playing SG will cost you dearly!!
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chocobery
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:37 am

The Jap caddy speaks English?
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kamen
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:26 pm

There can be no equal comparison between the 2 as the quality of products and services are so vastly different between both countries.
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beehome
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:10 pm

Thanks for all feedback guys.

@bro coe16arg - thanks for the information on the Japanese golfing industry.

@bro chocobery - I do not have a caddie. Anyway the Japanese caddies do not speak english. I don't think there will be any problem. Terms use are the same eg..birdie is a birdie lah.

@bro chien, pocketace and Agn Teh - I played 2 games. One in Hakodate-Onuma GC and the other Furano GC. Both are private courses.

I am not very tech savvy and are requesting my son to help me to get my photos organise. I have some in my cell phone and some in my camera.

Will post some pics and comments as soon as I can.

Conclusion - for those who are planning to go Japan for a holiday, golfing is worth it. Cheers!

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kennyky
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:06 pm

Golf in SingaporeI believe, is just about more expensive than almost all the countries around Asia and in Europe (comparatively to equal services/course maintenance etc)
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simbk
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:40 am

Hi beehome,

That is very interesting and something new to me. I am interested to go Hokkaido for golfing , do you have a local agent to arrange the golf ? Thanks.
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beehome
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:55 pm

@bro kennyky - almost everyone that I talked too in Singapore thought that playing golf in Japan is more expensive. So initially it was not in my holiday plans.
After asking my Jap frenz, it turned out to be cheaper so I went ahead. I am equally surprised.

@simbk - I did not use a local agent so I don't know. I stayed in Prince Hotels (a chain in Japan). They are mainly resort hotels for golf, skiing and onsen (hotsprings).
For rooms, I booked on their website which offers better rates. But for golf I book thru their Singapore office becos if u call Japan, they cannot speak english.

There are many golf courses in Hokkiado. You will hv fun. It is in my bucket list now. Smile 
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simbk
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:20 pm

Hi beehome,

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!
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nichjon
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:19 am

Haha I'm surprised that golfing in Japan is quite reasonable, always thought it was like super expensive and that only the super rich could play there, now it seems that here's getting pretty increasingly expensive also. But like all other things in Sunnypore, inflation's always gonna drive our costs up!
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OBMeister
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:01 pm

Hi all, am new to the forum but think I can perhaps give more insights here.

Golfing in Japan is indeed wonderful provided you know where to play.  Like any major cities, it can be costly, time consuming and frustrating... However, once you get pass the nitty gritty issues of language barriers and transportation to and fro etc... the joys of golfing in beautiful weather (barring summer now) and manicured courses are plentiful... you will be spoilt for choices.

Where you choose to golf in Japan plays a huge role in the green fees you pay. Other contributing factors includes "Premium Status" of the golf club, weekday or weekend golf etc. The closer you are to Tokyo, expect to pay more for green fees... ie Tokyo and Chiba (most number of golf courses per square area in the world) area.  In addition, places such as Tochigi, Saitama offers splendid choices for golfing.

Tokyo/Chiba weekdays approx ¥11000-¥15000. Weekends ¥15000-¥30000.
Toshiba/Saitama weekdays approx ¥6500-¥10000.

When playing golf in Japan, there are several notable traits that you will need to get use to... such as...

1) Golfing here is a time consuming affair. COMPULSORY lunch break break is enforced after 9 holes. Play through is permissible though extremely rare.  Give and take, it takes about 5 to 6 hours for 18 holes excluding lunch break. Travelling to and fro golf course is not included and depending on traffic situation... Sunday golf is potentially a 12-13 hour affair.

2) Official handicaps are not required here... hence you will also find many social golfers (imagine... very very new golfers let loose on a golf course)... a good patience cultivator for some.

3) Carts are usually slow 4 seaters, self automated or remotely controlled on track. Self drive on course is rare.

That's all I can think of now... and should there be more queries, I will be happy to add in more.

Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:04 pm

Valuable information OBMeister, looks like you're the go-to guy for golf in the land of the rising sun.

Much appreciated. Very Happy
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OBMeister
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PostSubject: Re: Golfing in Singapore more expensive than Japan.   Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:07 pm

Birdman wrote:
Valuable information OBMeister, looks like you're the go-to guy for golf in the land of the rising sun.

Much appreciated. Very Happy

HI Birdman,

I will be glad to be of assistance if I am not travelling. : )
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