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 Beginner Irons: recommendations

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eladnonnac
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:45 pm

Nicq - I have my previous Callaway X20 set if you are interested. Please pm me if you are keen.
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willytan
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:45 pm

I have a R7 iron set in graphite shaft (5-P, A, S & L) in 60s. It is my first set which is very forgiving for beginner - mid hcper.
Selling for $200 will thrown in a taylormade standbag & chipper for extra $30.

http://www.golfrepublic.org/t24329-wts-tm-driver-tm-iron-set-nike-wedge-set-golf-polo-shirt-new-item-added
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:31 am

Hi Nicq,

I think to help make sense of your search you need to realise the following:

1) Shaft weight and flex are not related, R flex does not mean lighter than S Flex.  I would suggest that you do an online search for iron shaft weights by brand.  Each brand will have a range of different weights and flexes.  Some brands are more focused on the heavier end (Project X. Dynamic Golf) and some on the lighter end (NS Pro, Shimada).

2) If you find a NSPRO 950 (95gm) too heavy, then you might want to consider looking at shafts in the 70gm to 85gm category, which brings graphite shafts into play.  Modern graphite shafts can be both light and stiff.

3) If the issue is more flex related, ie you can handle NSPro R Flex, then look for steel/graphite iron shafts in the 80-95gm category.

4) Technology for irons hasn't really advanced much in the last 5 years.  Most distance gains come from "stronger" lofts. e.g. Titleist AP2 7i has 35 deg loft, your Burner 2.0 7i has 31 deg loft.  Basically it is a 6 iron.  IMHO, as long as the shaft flex and overall weight suit you, even 10-15 year old irons will perform decently (assuming you don't go out and buy a blade or muscle back iron).  I don't think you are going to experience any difference in performance at this stage between comparable iron sets within the last 5 years.

5) Your preference for weight and flex will probably change as your swing develops.  As a 1 month old golfer, even if you have been practising 4-5 hours every day for a month, the swing you have now is unlikely to be the same swing you have 6-12 months from now. If you are not already doing do, go get proper lessons.

6) Many golfers do change components of their clubs as opposed to buying a whole new set of clubs.  This kind of customization, when combined with the evaluation of a qualified club fitting professional, is a process know as "Club Fitting".  Other threads discuss this.

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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cactuzone
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:46 am

Hi Derek, 

may I ask if stiff flex graphite shaft able to have the "feel" on iron compares to steel shaft?

If not, I am considering to switch to Project X 5.5 as I was told the present DG R300 is the heaviest steel shaft.

Appreciate your feedback, thanks.
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cactuzone
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:49 am

Apologies, it's 115 gram instead.
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:49 am

cactuzone wrote:
Hi Derek, 

may I ask if stiff flex graphite shaft able to have the "feel" on iron compares to steel shaft?

If not, I am considering to switch to Project X 5.5 as I was told the present DG R300 is the heaviest steel shaft.

Appreciate your feedback, thanks.
The only graphite which got the nearest feel to steel is Steel Fiber.

http://www.aerotechgolfshafts.com/playersami99_spec_iron.php
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cactuzone
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:55 am

I've tried that and kinda like it. It's a hybrid shaft?
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:00 pm

cactuzone wrote:
I've tried that and kinda like it. It's a hybrid shaft?
the pro series is like the PX flighted.

For hybrid there's a hfs series. But I did use the I70 which is meant for irons before for hybrid it's works well as well.

More detail, u may wanna contact DGman
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cactuzone
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:24 pm

Thanks, enwee.
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:23 pm

Hi Cactuzone,

I actually experiment with iron shafts less than most and I am definitely not a club fitter (qualified or otherwise) so what I am saying is based on my personal experience.

Technology nowadays allows graphite shafts to be as heavy and stiff as steel.  Steel shafts can also now be made in weights that previously could only be found on graphite shafts.  I have seen Matrix Shafts for Irons that are 115-120 gm and are really stiff.  Also, I understand some of the SteelFibre shafts are available in that weight range (SteelFibre is like a hybrid Steel + graphite shaft, please visit their website to understand the details: Aerotech Steel Fibre).

I can't really comment about shaft feel too much as my personal preference for shafts is lighter compared to yours.  I have used Irons with PX 5.0 and DG R300 shafts and find them too heavy for my liking.  Irons shafts in the 85 - 95gm range fall into my personal "sweet spot".  However, what I have noticed is that when you hit the ball sweetly, really not much difference between the feel on graphite/steel/composite (e.g. Steel Fibre).  It always feels "soft".  The BIG difference is on the thin/topped shots, the graphite/composite shafts are a lot less harsh.  Steel shafts transfer all the nasty vibrations all the way up your arm.

In terms of performance (dispersion - both distance and direction), as long as the weight,flex profile and torque are roughly in the region I am comfortable with, I really don't see much difference between the different materials used to construct the shaft as the biggest variation will come from my swing.  If I am swinging well, the dispersion is good.  If I am swinging badly, doesn't matter what shaft, the ball goes all over the place.

Having the right shaft that fits your swing and gives you the best performance (while satisfying you from a feel perspective) at the right budget is the end game.  If you are lucky, everything will line up.  If not, you might have to balance between cost/looks/feel/performance.

If you are finding your current DG R300 too heavy, then you need to try a variety of shafts on the same/similar iron head.  I believe any fitting center should have this, including BFG at Bukit Merah.

If you approach trying shafts with an open mind, you might be surprised at what happens.  Birdman is a good example of someone who has always preferred graphite shafts, but ended up switching to steel shafts as it gave him better performance.

For me, when I was trying out shafts for my irons, I really liked the (more solid) feel of the KBS Tour shafts, even more than the Steel Fibre i95.  However, the numbers showed I was more consistent with the lighter SF shaft, especially on partial swings.  Even with the evidence, it took quite a while to convince myself that the SF was the right choice, simply because before the fitting, I had almost convinced myself that I was now "ready" for a KBS Tour shaft, even though it was probably too heavy for me.

In any case, each of us will get a different "feel" from a shaft, as each of our swings are different, so the best thing you can do is try them yourself and seek what works best for you.

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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nutty88
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:47 pm

Ssquirrel wrote:
How young/old or strong are you?
My uninformed suggestion is to not worry about the shaft stiffness. If you are young( <45yr) , just play stiff, you'll swing/hit harder as you practice more and gain confidence. Swing freely and uninhibited; you're body will learn how to react accordingly:albino:
Now i know >45yr is classified as OLD. Mad 
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WILL33
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:55 pm

nutty88 wrote:
Ssquirrel wrote:
How young/old or strong are you?
My uninformed suggestion is to not worry about the shaft stiffness. If you are young( <45yr) , just play stiff, you'll swing/hit harder as you practice more and gain confidence. Swing freely and uninhibited; you're body will learn how to react accordingly:albino:
Now i know >45yr is classified as OLD. Mad 
Oh. I just found out that I am not young anymore. pale
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Nicq
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:26 pm

Should a beginner be using stiff at all?
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cactuzone
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:54 pm

Thank you so much, Derek.

Presently nursing a hand injury, nerve compression between the middle and ring finger in my left hand, caused by thinner iron grip recently changed. Will certainly see a fitter to sort this out once I can grip a club. Dying from non golfing for 2 weeks!
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:57 pm

In my opinion, only a minority of social golfers will reach the stage where they will need stiff STEEL shafts for irons.

In your case, reshafting your current clubs with regular flex steel shafts might cost as much as buying a 2nd hand set ... so why not just but a cheap 2nd hand (or new at Golf Direct) with a light steel shaft in R flex and keep your burners so that you have something on hand if your find yourself needing a stiffer steel shaft in the future

p.s. I am not an advocate of steel shafts, just that they tend to cost less

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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Nicq
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:03 pm

I actually have a very old set of mizuno notus from a long time ago in graphite. Used before at range. Quite forgiving. But do younger people use graphite shafts too or do most find it too whippy?
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blee67
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:08 pm

I dont use steel shaft...  since the beginning, I have been using graphite till now...

At least now I can say I am old... since on anothe thread anybody classified as over 45 is considered old..... Very Happy
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:16 pm

why don't you bring it to the range and see which one you hit better shots with ...

for a more fair comparison, compare the old mizuno 7iron against the burner 8iron (the lofts should be more similar)

If you actually like how it works but are concerned about your "image", then it all depends on what are your goals when it comes to golf ...

If one of your main goals to is get better at golf, then I would gently suggest that the correct perspective is what works for you ... not what everyone else is using

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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Nicq
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:20 pm

Lol. I will compare the distances I guess. It just seems that although graphite is easier to hit. I heard that if a younger person hits it, it won't fly as far due to a faster swing speed. And faster swing speeds are better of with a steel shaft..? Not really concerned with image. Just wanna hit straight and far
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sob
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:34 pm

Nicq wrote:
Lol. I will compare the distances I guess. It just seems that although graphite is easier to hit. I heard that if a younger person hits it, it won't fly as far due to a faster swing speed. And faster swing speeds are better of with a steel shaft..? Not really concerned with image. Just wanna hit straight and far
Bro, no offense but how fast is fast?
Some PGA Pros are using graphite, so they using wrong shafts?

Everyone wants to hit straight and far, problem with us is that we think that with equipment change we can  overcome our basic swing issues.

If you really wanna hit straight and far, work on your swing with a reputable coach.

cheers
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:45 pm

Nicq wrote:
Lol. I will compare the distances I guess. It just seems that although graphite is easier to hit. I heard that if a younger person hits it, it won't fly as far due to a faster swing speed. And faster swing speeds are better of with a steel shaft..? Not really concerned with image. Just wanna hit straight and far
Actually, someone told me before, graphite actually fly further but steel give more stability and consistency in term of distance. But with the advancement of graphite technology I don't see a lot of difference anyway. Nowadays u see graphite getting heavier and steel getting lighter like Derek said before. It's just a matter which one produce better result for u.
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cactuzone
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:53 pm

I was told graphite for distance and steel for control.
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Derek
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:53 pm

If you look at shaft technology from 20 yrs ago, statements like graphite for slow swing speed and steel for fast swing speeds would be generally true.

Now, at the extreme ends of the speed scale (very slow or very fast), it is also probably true.  In the middle range, where nearly all adult male golfers will be, there are many options.

Matrix makes a 120gm X-Flex graphite shaft that will be too stiff for most golfers.  Some of the Taylor Made steel shafts are so light and flexible they almost feel like graphite (but with less torque) ... these shafts are quite fragile though ... my friend broke his PW when he hit a tree root

To hit it consistently, your shaft needs to match whatever is your repeatable swing.  It is not just about swing speed, it is also about tempo and how you load the shaft (which is a function of many, many, many things).  A good club fitter would know these things.  However, if your swing is still in the infancy stage and still evolving, then there really isn't much they can do either.

At this stage, it is more about ensuring there is no major mismatch between what clubs you have and what is your potential.  For example, starting a beginner with 135gm X-Flex shafts is going to take a lot of the fun out of the game and could lead to injury as well.  NSPro 950 S flex is probably at the upper end of what a beginner should be starting with, and since you have already tried and prefer lighter and/or more flexible shafts, then perhaps you should practice with those.

_________________
========================================
What's in the Bag

Driver: Callway X-Hot 10.5 with Fubuki 50S (pulled from a TM Burner SuperFast)
Woods: 19 Deg Callaway X-hot Proj X Stock S Flex
Hybrid: 22 Deg TM SF i70R, Cobra Baffler 25 Deg NS950R
Irons 5-Pw:  Titleist 704 CB NSP950 (Flex Unknown - think it is R)
Wedges: Perry Gear 52 Deg DG S300 and BFG 55 Deg KBS Hi-Rev, Tourstage 60 Deg
Putter: RIFE Antigua Island with Champ Large Grip
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Quest
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:19 pm

Worth a good look.

http://www.ralphmaltby.com/system/assets/441/2012_MPF_additions.pdf

Btw, there was an early query on whether to use stiff or regular flex. Personally, as a good rough gauge (tempo & loading aside, & applicable to both graphite & steel shafts), ask yourself what club do you use for 150yds?  If it's 8i or shorter irons, stiff or stiffer will be the way to go.  If it is 7i or longer irons, better off using reg.
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cactuzone
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PostSubject: Re: Beginner Irons: recommendations   Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:37 pm

Thank you Quest for the guide.
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