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garethgjw
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PostSubject: Shaft Spine?   Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:48 pm

Hi all,

Was hoping someone can enlighten me about spining your shafts..how does it help the game and what's the purpose of it?

Thanks in advance!
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zhikang
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:09 pm

Ok I'm no expert on this but I'm sharing this based on what I have read from various sources.

All shafts, due to the way it is manufactured, have 1 axis along which it vibrates or oscillates most consistently. The line along which this vibrates is known as the spine of the shaft. When spining (or more accurately, spine aligning) a shaft, it involves the location of this axis by using a frequency machine to detect the axis at which the shaft oscillates most consistently. Once that axis is found, the shaft is rotated and installed so that the spine of the shaft is pointing directly towards (or away from) the target line.

The effects of spining a shaft will technically be greater consistency. However, whether you can feel it is a separate issue altogether. I hope this answers your questions haha. Maybe DGMan can help explain more?
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yanhaotiong
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:32 am

Interested in this topic too! From my understanding, on tour not many spine their shafts (not sure if it's across the bag or only in the irons).

Does it really matter or will it really affect your shots? Currently have my DG shafts spined and they look disgustingly ugly - logos all over the place!

**On TrueTemper's website, they indicate that you do not need to spine the clubs.
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zhikang
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:36 am

Well with the advancement of technology many top manufacturers now have been able to make shafts that have consistent performance no matter whether the shafts have been spined of cos. Whether or not if will affect your shots, I think most of the time the indian matters more than the arrows Razz
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yanhaotiong
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:41 am

zhikang wrote:
Well with the advancement of technology many top manufacturers now have been able to make shafts that have consistent performance no matter whether the shafts have been spined of cos. Whether or not if will affect your shots, I think most of the time the indian matters more than the arrows Razz
Sounds totally logical! thanks for the reply, will probably put them back straight. Don't think I can get any lousier than I already am Razz
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onime
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:50 am

IMO I cant feel the difference or probably im too noob Very Happy
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garethgjw
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:56 am

thanks for the replies guys...cos recently reshafted my irons and the fitter asked if I wanted to spine it or not...i decided against it as I wasn't sure how it would affect my shots...

Well gonna try it out first without spining...

I've tried spined clubs and so far it seems to me that the "spine" is only inside the grip area..
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goh.YF.52
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:32 pm

garethgjw wrote:
thanks for the replies guys...cos recently reshafted my irons and the fitter asked if I wanted to spine it or not...i decided against it as I wasn't sure how it would affect my shots...

Well gonna try it out first without spining...

I've tried spined clubs and so far it seems to me that the "spine" is only inside the grip area..
The rib is there for grip aid so that u grip the same way everytime.
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Batman
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:39 am

From engineering perspective, there's bound to be different.


Just imagune, a piece of metal,  rolled n 'welded' together to form the shaft. So like what bbro zhikang said, "The effects of spining a shaft will technically be greater consistency". Thus is because the shaft always bend at that particular axis.


Hence I guess it all boils down to one's perception and belief. For me, being technical, I choose to believe Beer I can live w logo all over the place
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GolfMG
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:58 pm

My 2 cents worth...

The value of spine-ing could be more more pronounced when compared within the same set of irons.
- for a spined set, expectedly all individual irons / woods would behave the same.
- for a un-spined set, but the spines are all consistently un-spined in a certain axis, would also expectedly behave the ~same.
- a rojak (every club has their own spine facing everywhere), is where expectedly the "same" swing on a different club may have a slightly different face on impact.

My own experience is that Titleist stock clubs are quite well-spined / slightly off only.
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kenneth18
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 2:11 pm

For me, I prefer all my shafts to be spined to achieve technical consistency. Then I can only blame it on my strokes or bad habit instead of the quipment.
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:16 pm

If I could remember, the Titleist camp once said it is not necessary to spline the clubs ... I stand corrected ... But am sure tour pros do spline their clubs ....
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:19 pm

Batman wrote:
Hence I guess it all boils down to one's perception and belief. For me, being technical, I choose to believe :beer:I can live w logo all over the place
One think good about aftermarket KBS shaft is they do not stick the KBS brand sticker on the shaft and one can paste it after installation ...
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:39 pm

Turbo wrote:
Batman wrote:
Hence I guess it all boils down to one's perception and belief. For me, being technical, I choose to believe :beer:I can live w logo all over the place
One think good about aftermarket KBS shaft is they do not stick the KBS brand sticker on the shaft and one can paste it after installation ...
I thought when u buy any shafts in the mkt, the sticker is paste after installation?
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:00 pm

In a actual assembly process on a factory floor, its not possible to add spine-ing as its too expensive and takes up too much time. 

we need to ask ourselves...

1. is there such a thing as a natural bend point in a steel shaft. 
2. what is the difference on impact and feel
3. if both are yes, then why should we not have consistent shaft orientation in our set. 
4. answer is at the top of the page

on another note, there were ....USGA and R&A rules, which says a lot but yet mean very little.


b. Bending and Twisting Properties 

Appendix II, 2b requires that:

At any point along its length, the shaft must:
(i) bend in such a way that the deflection is the same regardless of how the shaft is rotated about its longitudinal axis; and
(ii) twist the same amount in both directions.


This Rule effectively restricts shafts from being designed to have asymmetric properties, so that however the club is assembled, or whichever way the shaft is oriented, it will make no difference to the performance of the club.

However, many graphite shafts have a small “spine” running along the length of the shaft which may make them bend differently depending on how they are fitted to the head. As previously noted, the USGA recognizes that it is difficult for manufacturers to consistently produce a perfectly symmetrical shaft and, provided that the shaft is manufactured with the intention of meeting the above requirements, the USGA may incorporate a reasonable tolerance when evaluating shafts for conformance. Additionally, manufacturers of clubs may orient or align shafts which have spines for uniformity in assembling sets, or in an effort to make the shafts perform as if they were perfectly symmetrical. However, a shaft which has been oriented for the purpose of influencing the performance of a club, e.g., to correct wayward shots, would be contrary to the intent of this Rule.

It’s difficult to assess the conformance of a shaft in the field. A standard shaft with a circular cross-section would most likely conform to the Rules unless there is evidence to the contrary (e.g., claims by the manufacturer which would indicate non-conformance, including advertising claims). However, a shaft which is not symmetrical in cross-section, such as an oval or rectangular shaft, would not normally be expected to conform to the Rules. Manufacturers of shafts with unique cross-sections should submit them to the USGA early in the development process, prior to production and marketing.

Now imagine what will happen if True Temper agrees that spine-ing is important. the OEM brands will not be very happy cos their production cost will increase a lot or the shaft manufacturer may have to spine, then print the logos on the shaft. in the 90s there was a huge fiasco between SST and the rules officials. 

hope it helps......DGman

btw my stand is, if you can get an advantage, take it.
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kenneth18
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:48 pm

Thanks DGman for this valuable technical information, really worth reading. Cheers Jump
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andrew-golf
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:51 pm

So the question remains if one can gain an advantage
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:01 pm

andrew-golf wrote:
So the question remains if one can gain an advantage
Absolutely ... Provided the Red Indian himself is consistent to begin with ... Laughing
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andrew-golf
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:05 pm

Turbo wrote:
andrew-golf wrote:
So the question remains if one can gain an advantage
Absolutely ... Provided the Red Indian himself is consistent to begin with ... Laughing
So turbo

Have u gained the advantage? Haha
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angyongshen
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:35 pm

nice read and good info. Seems like the effects and advantages are more pronounced when applied to a graphite shaft.

I think most graphite shafts have their logo and labels silk screened on the shaft at the point of production and not applied after installation. Like how DG always put their stick small and all the way around, not so distracting. Cheers. Swing 

@garethgjw: Since you are fitting on new shafts, did the fitter happen to take the measurement of your hand to ground distance for appropriate iron lengths? Also the finger vs palm ratio/length for grip thickness?

Wonder if getting the right grip size is one of the more important aspect when building a set of clubs.
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:10 pm

From my experience and experimental, spining and descending swing weight will makes my game easier .
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:03 pm

ChrisD wrote:
From my experience and experimental, spining and descending swing weight will makes my game easier .
ChrisD bro, what is descending swing weight?
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:34 pm

andrew-golf wrote:
Turbo wrote:
andrew-golf wrote:
So the question remains if one can gain an advantage
Absolutely ... Provided the Red Indian himself is consistent to begin with ... Laughing
So turbo

Have u gained the advantage? Haha
Yes, my esteem perhaps ... Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Sat Nov 09, 2013 4:28 pm

just wanna add something...

All stock GRAPHITE shaft installed on our clubs are not "spine aligned"
Be it hybrid to Fairway wood up to our Driver.
Do not trust what your buying.
Check them and then take advantage of "Scientific tools" that can make you a better Golfer.
Thats what I do.

Lastly, When you buy those adjustable driver like RBZ, R1 etc etc.
There's only one spine aligned shaft. So you cannot just adjust the shaft.
I have experienced adjusting R1, Nike Covert and I still prefer the non-adjustable driver. Cause once you have checked the spine of your driver you are Good to Go
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PostSubject: Re: Shaft Spine?   Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:45 pm

Good vid explaining spine n FLO (flat line oscillation)... the fitter in vid says guaranteed to hit straighter after Smile
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