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 Penalty for hitting another ball

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rapidmax
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PostSubject: Penalty for hitting another ball   Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:47 pm

Sometimes we (mostly beginners) hit a lousy shot and ask for second chance to hit another ball. The first ball may be lost in the rough/forest or on the fairway but a few meters away (e.g. Top the ball), in which case you will pick it up later after hitting the second chance ball.

How do you count the strokes/penalties in these cases?
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sob
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:12 pm

Lost ball +1 stroke
Duff ball and replay also +1 stroke

If you playing for fun, no need to count lah.
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rapidmax
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:33 pm

Thanks!
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grwilliam
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:15 am

The second chance shot is called a `MULLIGAN'. If you take a mulligan at every hole it will slow down play.
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membina27a
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:21 am

If you play at places like mbgc or nsrcc, my advice is not to have too much mulligan. Just 2 for 18 holes. The marshall will pressure you for time. In msia, you have more leeway. Btw, im a beginner.
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EastCoastHack
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:58 am

If you call it a "provisional" under Rule 27-2 it is designed to speed up the pace of play. Stroke and Distance.
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swordwind
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:58 am

Actually, wouldn't it be better for leisure golfers to hit a 2nd ball after a really bad drive? After all, it's gonna waste more time searching for the 1st ball or attempts to hit it out from a real bad spot.. haha..
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:06 am

What I do is if you know that the first ball is confirmed lost immediately after hitting, you have 2 options

1. Take the shot from where you are now and add 1 stroke (for lost ball) but also count the shot that you took for the provisional i.e. your 2nd chance shot
2. Go to the place where you lost your ball, take the shot but +2 penalty strokes. This is to speed up play. You gain distance hence you plus 2 strokes (1 for penalty and 1 for taking the distance). I do this in Singapore.

If you don't know if you lost the ball or not, you go to the place where you think the ball landed, cannot find the ball, the correct way is to go back to the place where you orginally hit the lost ball and hit again and plus 1 stroke (like method 1) but this waste a lot of time. So usually when this happens when I am not sure if the ball is really lost, I will use method 2.
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:07 am

swordwind wrote:
Actually, wouldn't it be better for leisure golfers to hit a 2nd ball after a really bad drive? After all, it's gonna waste more time searching for the 1st ball or attempts to hit it out from a real bad spot.. haha..
if every shot u expect to hit fairway, then how u improve??? U need to know how to get it out of the bad spot.
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swordwind
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:17 am

enwee wrote:
swordwind wrote:
Actually, wouldn't it be better for leisure golfers to hit a 2nd ball after a really bad drive? After all, it's gonna waste more time searching for the 1st ball or attempts to hit it out from a real bad spot.. haha..
if every shot u expect to hit fairway, then how u improve??? U need to know how to get it out of the bad spot.
Haha.. not saying for me.. but referring to the discussion on beginners teeing off badly vs time wasting. I'm sure most beginners will take all their shots seriously, even from the hardest spots. Tt's why they take so long for the game. I'm just suggesting, if they are confident to hit it right with a 2nd try, and tt it's a leisure game with frens, I wld say teeing off a 2nd ball is a better option than scrambling from everywhere in the expense of the flights behind? Haha
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:17 am

It is better to play a provision ball if you suspect the ball cannot be found. This is becos when you reached the spot to find the ball and you could not find, you have to tee-off again or hit from the spot where you last hit if you follow the rules ...
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:23 am

swordwind wrote:
enwee wrote:
swordwind wrote:
Actually, wouldn't it be better for leisure golfers to hit a 2nd ball after a really bad drive? After all, it's gonna waste more time searching for the 1st ball or attempts to hit it out from a real bad spot.. haha..
if every shot u expect to hit fairway, then how u improve??? U need to know how to get it out of the bad spot.
Haha.. not saying for me.. but referring to the discussion on beginners teeing off badly vs time wasting. I'm sure most beginners will take all their shots seriously, even from the hardest spots. Tt's why they take so long for the game. I'm just suggesting, if they are confident to hit it right with a 2nd try, and tt it's a leisure game with frens, I wld say teeing off a 2nd ball is a better option than scrambling from everywhere in the expense of the flights behind? Haha
If the 1st ball is in play, i don't suggest this because 1 person in the flight do this and every flight do this, it'll take longer for the game to finish. Of cos, if the ball is deem lost or OB, by rules u should play a P-ball, why u need to scamble everywhere, if casual game just take out and play, surely the gang don't mind. If going to follow by the book, declared unplayable lor then u get to lift the ball with penalty of cos. Don't forget u can declared unplayable anytime.
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iamsussed
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:26 am

Gray wrote:
What I do is if you know that the first ball is confirmed lost immediately after hitting, you have 2 options

1. Take the shot from where you are now and add 1 stroke (for lost ball) but also count the shot that you took for the provisional i.e. your 2nd chance shot
2. Go to the place where you lost your ball, take the shot but +2 penalty strokes. This is to speed up play. You gain distance hence you plus 2 strokes (1 for penalty and 1 for taking the distance). I do this in Singapore.

If you don't know if you lost the ball or not, you go to the place where you think the ball landed, cannot find the ball, the correct way is to go back to the place where you orginally hit the lost ball and hit again and plus 1 stroke (like method 1) but this waste a lot of time. So usually when this happens when I am not sure if the ball is really lost, I will use method 2.
Agree with Gray - when certain the ball is lost, I would usually go with #1 if not feeling too pressed like playing a 2 or 3 ball round. Sometimes I can't find the ball even though I thought I knew where…Then I go with #2. Very very rarely do i see players returning to their original position (usually the tees) to for penalty/replay..
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:28 am

iamsussed wrote:
Gray wrote:
What I do is if you know that the first ball is confirmed lost immediately after hitting, you have 2 options

1. Take the shot from where you are now and add 1 stroke (for lost ball) but also count the shot that you took for the provisional i.e. your 2nd chance shot
2. Go to the place where you lost your ball, take the shot but +2 penalty strokes. This is to speed up play. You gain distance hence you plus 2 strokes (1 for penalty and 1 for taking the distance). I do this in Singapore.

If you don't know if you lost the ball or not, you go to the place where you think the ball landed, cannot find the ball, the correct way is to go back to the place where you orginally hit the lost ball and hit again and plus 1 stroke (like method 1) but this waste a lot of time. So usually when this happens when I am not sure if the ball is really lost, I will use method 2.
Agree with Gray - when certain the ball is lost, I would usually go with #1 if not feeling too pressed like playing a 2 or 3 ball round. Sometimes I can't find the ball even though I thought I knew where…Then I go with #2. Very very rarely do i see players returning to their original position (usually the tees) to for penalty/replay..
This is the rules, but casual playing normally people will go with #2 to speed up play.
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:30 am

enwee wrote:
swordwind wrote:
enwee wrote:
swordwind wrote:
Actually, wouldn't it be better for leisure golfers to hit a 2nd ball after a really bad drive? After all, it's gonna waste more time searching for the 1st ball or attempts to hit it out from a real bad spot.. haha..
if every shot u expect to hit fairway, then how u improve??? U need to know how to get it out of the bad spot.
Haha.. not saying for me.. but referring to the discussion on beginners teeing off badly vs time wasting. I'm sure most beginners will take all their shots seriously, even from the hardest spots. Tt's why they take so long for the game. I'm just suggesting, if they are confident to hit it right with a 2nd try, and tt it's a leisure game with frens, I wld say teeing off a 2nd ball is a better option than scrambling from everywhere in the expense of the flights behind? Haha
If the 1st ball is in play, i don't suggest this because 1 person in the flight do this and every flight do this, it'll take longer for the game to finish. Of cos, if the ball is deem lost or OB, by rules u should play a P-ball, why u need to scamble everywhere, if casual game just take out and play, surely the gang don't mind. If going to follow by the book, declared unplayable lor then u get to lift the ball with penalty of cos. Don't forget u can declared unplayable anytime.
ya lor.

If OB, just hit from the spot where you suspect the ball lost and plus 2 strokes. Leisure game mah.

If hazard, just hit from the line where the ball enter in hazard and plus 1 stroke for entering hazard.

Correct me if I am wrong but according to the rules, for hazard (yellow and red stick), you can gain distance but add one stroke. but for OB, you cannot gain distance and plus 1 stroke
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swordwind
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:46 am

Yeap. I guess we are all on the same page on this.. just that I'm talking about cases whereby it's 50-50 on finding the first ball. So instead of advising beginners to die die not to take a second shot, end up wasting time to find the ball or worse, hit a 2nd bad shot from a tough spot, then of course playing the 2nd ball shd be better (aka provisional ball)..
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:51 am

swordwind wrote:
Yeap. I guess we are all on the same page on this.. just that I'm talking about cases whereby it's 50-50 on finding the first ball. So instead of advising beginners to die die not to take a second shot, end up wasting time to find the ball or worse, hit a 2nd bad shot from a tough spot, then of course playing the 2nd ball shd be better (aka provisional ball)..
50-50 chances, OB, hazard or lost ball??? If OB or lost ball, P ball is a must, if P ball also 50-50 then go there and drop liao don't go play another. Hazard, if yellow stakes just go to drop zone which most course normally have. Red stakes just got to the point of entry and drop. This way you tend to speed up play.
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iamsussed
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:06 am

Actually I don't know the rules too well! 

As rapidmax mentioned: if the ball trickles 10-20m off a topped/chunked/shanked from the tee shot, sometimes, I replay a 2nd ball. The lie of that 1st ball is often terrible either down slope or super rough, it just doesn't make sense to carry on with the 1st ball. As a newish not so good player, I figure it's about enjoying the game and making sure pace is kept up. If it's entirely uncharacteristic for that mishit, and you know the 2nd ball can take you further in less time then I say why not.. 

Rules are meant to be broken.. sometimes!
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:09 am

iamsussed wrote:
Actually I don't know the rules too well! 

As rapidmax mentioned: if the ball trickles 10-20m off a topped/chunked/shanked from the tee shot, sometimes, I replay a 2nd ball. The lie of that 1st ball is often terrible either down slope or super rough, it just doesn't make sense to carry on with the 1st ball. As a newish not so good player, I figure it's about enjoying the game and making sure pace is kept up. If it's entirely uncharacteristic for that mishit, and you know the 2nd ball can take you further in less time then I say why not.. 

Rules are meant to be broken.. sometimes!
Can always download apps for rules of golf or u can go club house and take the booklet.
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:10 am

iamsussed wrote:
Actually I don't know the rules too well! 

As rapidmax mentioned: if the ball trickles 10-20m off a topped/chunked/shanked from the tee shot, sometimes, I replay a 2nd ball. The lie of that 1st ball is often terrible either down slope or super rough, it just doesn't make sense to carry on with the 1st ball. As a newish not so good player, I figure it's about enjoying the game and making sure pace is kept up. If it's entirely uncharacteristic for that mishit, and you know the 2nd ball can take you further in less time then I say why not.. 

Rules are meant to be broken.. sometimes!
Golf is meant to be enjoyed .....All the time!

So do whatever makes you happy but when you do that, make sure that you don't make your flight mates or those infront and behind unhappy. You enjoy, people must also enjoy. If you enjoy taking 5 shots from the tee, your flight mates and those behind your flight may not like it so much.
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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:12 am

Gray wrote:
iamsussed wrote:
Actually I don't know the rules too well! 

As rapidmax mentioned: if the ball trickles 10-20m off a topped/chunked/shanked from the tee shot, sometimes, I replay a 2nd ball. The lie of that 1st ball is often terrible either down slope or super rough, it just doesn't make sense to carry on with the 1st ball. As a newish not so good player, I figure it's about enjoying the game and making sure pace is kept up. If it's entirely uncharacteristic for that mishit, and you know the 2nd ball can take you further in less time then I say why not.. 

Rules are meant to be broken.. sometimes!
Golf is meant to be enjoyed .....All the time!

So do whatever makes you happy but when you do that, make sure that you don't make your flight mates or those infront and behind unhappy. You enjoy, people must also enjoy. If you enjoy taking 5 shots from the tee, your flight mates and those behind your flight may not like it so much.
Yah......that's the main point, don't just u enjoy and your flight mates and the those behind don't enjoy at all.
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iamsussed
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:22 am

enwee wrote:
Gray wrote:
iamsussed wrote:
Actually I don't know the rules too well! 

As rapidmax mentioned: if the ball trickles 10-20m off a topped/chunked/shanked from the tee shot, sometimes, I replay a 2nd ball. The lie of that 1st ball is often terrible either down slope or super rough, it just doesn't make sense to carry on with the 1st ball. As a newish not so good player, I figure it's about enjoying the game and making sure pace is kept up. If it's entirely uncharacteristic for that mishit, and you know the 2nd ball can take you further in less time then I say why not.. 

Rules are meant to be broken.. sometimes!
Golf is meant to be enjoyed .....All the time!

So do whatever makes you happy but when you do that, make sure that you don't make your flight mates or those infront and behind unhappy. You enjoy, people must also enjoy. If you enjoy taking 5 shots from the tee, your flight mates and those behind your flight may not like it so much.
Yah......that's the main point, don't just u enjoy and your flight mates and the those behind don't enjoy at all.
Gray & enwee

I think I was pretty clear:

Circumstances are such that everyone mishits. Particularly beginners. Not the fly into the bushes 200+m kind of mishits. Sometimes the ball trickles like I said and the question from rapidmax is what does one do? I am absolutely not encouraging anyone to play 5 shots off the tee. But if the 2nd ball is more likely to carry you further down the fairway, what sense or chance is there for a beginner who can barely touch a ball raisedoff the tee to make same distance off the rough few steps in front of the box. Everyone should enjoy their game and be considerate to other players. Fine balance to encouraging beginners to be more comfortable on the course. And I don't think enough is done IMO
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:25 am

Here's my humble 2 cents.

If you are not unduly holding up any golfers (including those playing in yr flight if I may add), play by the rules. To do this, you must go read up the rules lah and put into practice. That way, you learn.

But if you are in risk of holding up other golfers, then your priority is to speed up play. If this is the case, just proceed to to the spot where you think your ball lies and if you cannot locate your ball after a brief search, drop another ball and play from that spot. If there is a friendly wager amongst your flight, I would suggest that the flight firstly agrees on how to count your penalties e.g just add one stroke for making the drop. This way, you can still have a friendly wager with your mates and enjoy the game without holding up others.
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neutralgolfer
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:38 am

Just my view.

The proper way is to hit a Provisional ball if you think your first ball is out of play. This will speed up play.
Then go to the place where your first ball landed, if can find, good, play as it lies. Cannot play as it lies, then declare unplayable (except hazard), drop a ball & play on or play your provisional ball.

Whether beginner or not, you should try to learn the rules and accept the fact that penalties are applicable. You will be a better player in no time. You will learn to play faster, learn the rules, better course management or train harder not to make same mistake too often.

Enjoy your game!
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Gofnut
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:38 am

Quote :
Gray & enwee

I think I was pretty clear:

Circumstances are such that everyone mishits. Particularly beginners. Not the fly into the bushes 200+m kind of mishits. Sometimes the ball trickles like I said and the question from rapidmax is what does one do? I am absolutely not encouraging anyone to play 5 shots off the tee. But if the 2nd ball is more likely to carry you further down the fairway, what sense or chance is there for a beginner who can barely touch a ball raisedoff the tee to make same distance off the rough few steps in front of the box. Everyone should enjoy their game and be considerate to other players. Fine balance to encouraging beginners to be more comfortable on the course. And I don't think enough is done IMO
A golfer must attain a certain level of proficiency before he/she goes on to the course. That's why you need to get a PC and be accompanied by another golfer who has a handicap to game with you. PC means you have some knowledge of the rules (particularly etiquette) and can at least advance the ball to the direction you are hitting. The handicap player gaming with you is there to guide you and this includes ensuring that you do not unduly hold up other golfers. If the golfer's skill level is still low, then he/she should spend more time on the range to improve before gaming on the course. It will be a much more pleasant experience if he/she is able to play at a reasonable pace and is not pressured by golfers waiting behind.
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