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 Penalty for hitting another ball

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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:45 am

Gofnut wrote:
Quote :
Gray & enwee

I think I was pretty clear:

Circumstances are such that everyone mishits. Particularly beginners. Not the fly into the bushes 200+m kind of mishits. Sometimes the ball trickles like I said and the question from rapidmax is what does one do? I am absolutely not encouraging anyone to play 5 shots off the tee. But if the 2nd ball is more likely to carry you further down the fairway, what sense or chance is there for a beginner who can barely touch a ball raisedoff the tee to make same distance off the rough few steps in front of the box. Everyone should enjoy their game and be considerate to other players. Fine balance to encouraging beginners to be more comfortable on the course. And I don't think enough is done IMO
A golfer must attain a certain level of proficiency before he/she goes on to the course. That's why you need to get a PC and be accompanied by another golfer who has a handicap to game with you. PC means you have some knowledge of the rules (particularly etiquette) and can at least advance the ball to the direction you are hitting. The handicap player gaming with you is there to guide you and this includes ensuring that you do not unduly hold up other golfers. If the golfer's skill level is still low, then he/she should spend more time on the range to improve before gaming on the course. It will be a much more pleasant experience if he/she is able to play at a reasonable pace and is not pressured by golfers waiting behind.
Agree, how many times we saw 4 beginners playing on course left and right and no one know the rules, players behind is frustrated and yet they don't know. That's why many times I don't recommend 4 beginners playing together. Chinese have this saying 把自己的快乐建立在别人的痛苦上。meaning u built your happiness on others miseries.

Speaking of playing still looking for the 4th ball for this sun pm Smile.


Last edited by enwee on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nomad
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:45 am

Golf is a game based purely on "Honor".

We all play the game with the sole aim of improvement and this can take years.


The rules of golf are very clear.


“If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1.”





In Singapore it appears that all clubs operate under USGA rules. This also requires players to post their scores for Handicapping purposes following EVER round played. How do you post a score when every time you hit a bad shot you just drop another and have another go?




I understand that High Handicappers have "Bad Days", but so do Low Handicappers.




For me every round you play should be played under the rules of golf. "Play it where it Lies"
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jeffman88
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:00 pm

grwilliam wrote:
The second chance shot is called a `MULLIGAN'. If you take a mulligan at every hole it will slow down play.
Interesting read...

Btw mulligans r only allowed for "friendly" play as many hv said it speeds play by reducing the time spent searching for a lost ball so that the player can shake the monkey off his back and hv a more enjoyable game... but  infact i understand the practice is disallowed entirely by the golf rulebook and players who attempt it or agree to let it happen may be disqualified from sanctioned competitions.
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sob
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:23 pm

I feel that if you're having a fun game with friends, not holding up anyone(meaning no flights behind you)
It's ok to take a couple of mulligans, especially for people starting to pick up the game.

Use common sense to decide.
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hkhamateur
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:37 pm

Even Tour Pro gets penalize fr slow play on each shot n second offender gets disqualified. Wink
Suggest tat play on monday or tuesday if insist on gaming by the book n b sure tat let behind flight pass shld they b a fast pace golfers. Cool
(Common sense apply- u happy, behind flights happy) Smile


Last edited by hkhamateur on Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:42 pm

Lol, so many questions, scenarios and answers; both from the perspectives of the less proficient player and the more seasoned golfers.

What is clear in this discussion is that the less proficient favour bending the rules whereas the more seasoned have learnt to play by the rules.

And let's get real, the reason why we want a mulligan is obvious, we're not happy with our first shot and want to play another without penalty in the hope of hitting a better drive/shot for self satisfaction.

Do we always hit a good shot the 2nd time around? Sometimes, but I dare say most times we end up hitting the exact same shot as the first (come on, we've all been there), more so for those newer to golf.

Do we then take another mulligan until we hit that perfect shot?

We play a very complex game and can quote a thousand and one different scenarios where each one will have a valid reason for teeing off again, yet that's why the rules are there, to address these scenarios so we can wittle it down to at most a few definite solutions.

The real question here is, do we want to play by the rules or not play by the rules?

We may bend the rules "in the essence of time", yet the provisional ball rule is there to speed up play.

So really, let's be honest about why we want a mulligan rather than a provisional.

Yes, there are are a few rare occasions where teeing off again may save a few minutes, but they are few and very far between.

If we want to play 'friendly golf' then take our mulligans and apply the rules only where you deem it fit. In other words, throw the rule book out the window.

If we really want to learn how to play golf, apply the rules, take the provisonal and swallow our medicine.

Either way, let's not hold up play 'in the essence of time', because when we play multiple mulligans 'in the essence of time', the reality is that we really do hold up play.

Has anyone ever timed a mulligan round? They usually finish on average 6 hours later. Very Happy



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Nomad
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:44 pm

Thank you Birdman.

My sentiments exactly.
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:51 pm

I usually have an agreement with my friend that when we play on weekday malaysia (and weekday + malaysia only) we have unlimited mulligan on the first hole cos we are just warming up and dont have time to go driving range.

After that, we play by the rules unless it is an OB then the player decides whether to retake (with +1) or to take a +2 and hit the ball from the point of OB exit. This arrangement has worked very well even though we are betting drinks and lunch.
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:54 pm

Gray wrote:
I usually have an agreement with my friend that when we play on weekday malaysia (and weekday + malaysia only) we have unlimited mulligan on the first hole cos we are just warming up and dont have time to go driving range.

After that, we play by the rules unless it is an OB then the player decides whether to retake (with +1) or to take a +2 and hit the ball from the point of OB exit. This arrangement has worked very well even though we are betting drinks and lunch.
Even with flights behind you waiting to tee off? scratch 
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:54 pm

Birdman wrote:
Lol, so many questions, scenarios and answers; both from the perspectives of the less proficient player and the more seasoned golfers.

What is clear in this discussion is that the less proficient favour bending the rules whereas the more seasoned have learnt to play by the rules.

And let's get real, the reason why we want a mulligan is obvious, we're not happy with our first shot and want to play another without penalty in the hope of hitting a better drive/shot for self satisfaction.

Do we always hit a good shot the 2nd time around? Sometimes, but I dare say most times we end up hitting the exact same shot as the first (come on, we've all been there), more so for those newer to golf.

Do we then take another mulligan until we hit that perfect shot?

We play a very complex game and can quote a thousand and one different scenarios where each one will have a valid reason for teeing off again, yet that's why the rules are there, to address these scenarios so we can wittle it down to at most a few definite solutions.

The real question here is, do we want to play by the rules or not play by the rules?

We may bend the rules "in the essence of time", yet the provisional ball rule is there to speed up play.

So really, let's be honest about why we want a mulligan rather than a provisional.

Yes, there are are a few rare occasions where teeing off again may save a few minutes, but they are few and very far between.

If we want to play 'friendly golf' then take our mulligans and apply the rules only where you deem it fit. In other words, throw the rule book out the window.

If we really want to learn how to play golf, apply the rules, take the provisonal and swallow our medicine.

Either way, let's not hold up play 'in the essence of time', because when we play multiple mulligans 'in the essence of time', the reality is that we really do hold up play.

Has anyone ever timed a mulligan round? They usually finish on average 6 hours later. Very Happy



to my fav superhero who likes to siam me,


as much as i would like to agree with you.... i prefer to exercise my common sense

if i have already taken the whole day off, the essence of time is relative when i allow common sense to prevail....

as long as i dun hold back flight or allowed later flights to pass through, nothing wrong with 6 hrs flight....

cos i rather spent 6 hrs with wifey on the golf course than 6 hrs at Paragon on a thin wallet....

Very Happy
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:05 pm

slinger wrote:

to my fav superhero who likes to siam me,


as much as i would like to agree with you.... i prefer to exercise my common sense

if i have already taken the whole day off, the essence of time is relative when i allow common sense to prevail....

as long as i dun hold back flight or allowed later flights to pass through, nothing wrong with 6 hrs flight....

cos i rather spent 6 hrs with wifey on the golf course than 6 hrs at Paragon on a thin wallet....

Very Happy
Hahaha... so solly, I lup you... Face Hug 

I'm 100% with you on this. Common sense indeed.

Like you, I have played with the most basic of beginners and ended up with 7 hour rounds. No complaints there, I did so willingly with mulligans aplenty. Everybody has to start somewhere, I too had to learn how to crawl in golf before I learnt how to run.

As you and many have said already, as long as we don't hold up play. Very Happy

And I'd rather you have a fat wallet on the course too, ready for the day when I have enough game to relieve you of a few dollars. As of now, I'm still in the habit of visiting my natural habitat. ROFL


Last edited by Birdman on Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gray
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:13 pm

Birdman wrote:
Gray wrote:
I usually have an agreement with my friend that when we play on weekday malaysia (and weekday + malaysia only) we have unlimited mulligan on the first hole cos we are just warming up and dont have time to go driving range.

After that, we play by the rules unless it is an OB then the player decides whether to retake (with +1) or to take a +2 and hit the ball from the point of OB exit. This arrangement has worked very well even though we are betting drinks and lunch.
Even with flights behind you waiting to tee off? scratch 

weekday, malaysia, 2 ball in our flight. why not? cos anyway both of us not that bad that we will tee off 3 times. Max is twice.
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:19 pm

swordwind wrote:
Actually, wouldn't it be better for leisure golfers to hit a 2nd ball after a really bad drive? After all, it's gonna waste more time searching for the 1st ball or attempts to hit it out from a real bad spot.. haha..
Actually, no.

Leisure means to take your own time already, and in most cases, leisure golfer also means you play by your own rules.

If you are really intent on saving time as a leisure golfer, play ready golf.

Here are more than a few suggestions:

1. Know the shot you want to hit and have your club in hand when it's your turn.
- At the tee box, have the glove on and driver in hand ready to tee off. Not getting out of the buggy after someone else goes first, then looking for our glove, before pulling the cover off our driver.
- Easy to do when you are driving up to your ball, then narrow it down to the one club needed on surveying your lie. And if someone else is on the opposite side of the fairway, you can even play simultaneously.
- Survey the green while others are chipping/putting. Not begin after they have done so.

2. On wayward shots, track your ball till it lands, then note the exact location or point where the ball was last seen entering a hazard.
- "It went right/left" does not constitute exact location.

3. Allow the max of 5 minutes for ball search.
- If we don't like to lose balls, how come we don't bother to exercise point 2? scratch 
- This is the biggest time waster!!! A conservative estimate of 4 balls lost x 15 min= additonal one hour. And that's just for one golfer in the flight.
- Have a ball ready for a drop if confirmed lost.

4. Observe where the distance markers are while in the buggy.
- Asking how far only when reaching your ball is another massive time waster because it happens with every shot.
- Blue stripe/stake is 200m/yds. White stripe/stake is 150m/yds. Red stripe/stake is 100m/yds. To get the distances in between, divide the distance between stakes by 5, each fifth is an additional/less 10m/yds.

5. Move briskly in between shots, both before and after.
- This gives you more time to take your shot and besides, it's good exercise.

6. If buggy on track, someone always minds the buggy to keep pace with the flight.
- Too many times either buggy mate leaves the buggy behind and someone has to run back to get it.

7. Park the buggy between the green and the next tee.
- Always walk away from the flight approaching from behind and never towards them. This keeps the flight moving forward, and also safe from being hit by an approaching ball.

8. On the green, leave your clubs between the pin and the buggy.
- Then you just walk straight to your buggy and pick up your clubs along the way.
- The added advantage is that you'll never lose another wedge because someone will always see it on the way back to the buggy.

These are time saving gems that you'll never learn from any instructor, golf book or video.

Take it from a former slow golfer who always had to run to catch up with my flight. I've gathered these tips over the years through scoldings, advice, and observations from other more experienced golfers. And I now play much faster overall without taking any less time or feeling rushed over my ball.

I've listed the eight I can think of off the top of my head. If you practice just the first three, you'll be surprised how much shorter your round is without having felt rushed at all. Very Happy


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enwee
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:25 pm

another pt to add for buggy on track course, try to bring down more than one clubs just in case the lies is not favorable to you.

Pt 8 by birdman is good pt, many a times I see people left and right just to retrieve their clubs.
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:31 pm

After taking each shot, don't go to the buggy to put the club in the bag.

Hold the club with you in the buggy and drive off. Return the club to the bag at the next stop when your buddy is teeing off/ taking his shot or when you are changing clubs.

This reduces the number of times you keep going to your golf bag.
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:39 pm

Good additional points Enwee and Gray.

And from your last post Gray, I'm sure you take your mulligan while exercising common sense. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:56 pm

Gray wrote:
After taking each shot, don't go to the buggy to put the club in the bag.

Hold the club with you in the buggy and drive off. Return the club to the bag at the next stop when your buddy is teeing off/ taking his shot or when you are changing clubs.

This reduces the number of times you keep going to your golf bag.
Actually whether buggy on track or fairway, it's good for the guy with the ball further away to drive to their ball position assuming that the ball does not hindered the player line of play, then when the player finished his/her shot, walk to the buggy.
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:03 pm

Nobody plays in Palm Villa (3 x 9 holes) on a weekday. Even if there is a flight behind, my friend and I will let them pass after we've had our drive(s).

Moreover its only for the 1st hole when we need to warm up and get into the swing tempo.

Both of us are serious golfers who want to improve and taking mulligan is not something we are proud of as we both know it doesnt reflect the true score.

However, since we are starting cold out of the office (half day leave) and driving 40mins to Malaysia, having mulligans in the first hole is completely justified in lieu of shooting at the driving range before the game - a time luxury we do not have.
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:06 pm

iamsussed wrote:
Actually I don't know the rules too well! 

As rapidmax mentioned: if the ball trickles 10-20m off a topped/chunked/shanked from the tee shot, sometimes, I replay a 2nd ball. The lie of that 1st ball is often terrible either down slope or super rough, it just doesn't make sense to carry on with the 1st ball. As a newish not so good player, I figure it's about enjoying the game and making sure pace is kept up. If it's entirely uncharacteristic for that mishit, and you know the 2nd ball can take you further in less time then I say why not.. 

Rules are meant to be broken.. sometimes!
Sure, there are some liberties to be taken with newbies, but there's also another option since it's to encourage a beginner of the game.

Any ball that's in super rough or terrible lie, I help them to move it forward and place it on the fairway where it's sitting up nicely on as level a lie as possible. That's how I keep the game moving forward and yet encourage the beginner while developing good habits. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:07 pm

I think serious or casual, most people here do not encourage mulligan. I'm one of them for sure. If die die want mullingan, 1st hole 1st shot I can understand but if every few holes bad drive only mullingan, I think he/she better drop a ball on a fairway, if that's what player want?
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:19 pm

enwee wrote:
I think serious or casual, most people here do not encourage mulligan. I'm one of them for sure. If die die want mullingan, 1st hole 1st shot I can understand but if every few holes bad drive only mullingan, I think he/she better drop a ball on a fairway, if that's what player want?
Depends la...

We've all been down the mulligan road before. But it definitely takes discipline to resist taking one.

It's like taking heroin, you just have to take your first mulligan... then it's downhill all the way.

So best to set the mulligan rule before the flight tees off if we know there's a mulligan addict in the flight I say. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:21 pm

Birdman wrote:
enwee wrote:
I think serious or casual, most people here do not encourage mulligan. I'm one of them for sure. If die die want mullingan, 1st hole 1st shot I can understand but if every few holes bad drive only mullingan, I think he/she better drop a ball on a fairway, if that's what player want?
Depends la...

We've all been down the mulligan road before. But it definitely takes discipline to resist taking one.

It's like taking heroin, you just have to take your first mulligan... then it's downhill all the way.

So best to set the mulligan rule before the flight tees off if we know there's a mulligan addict in the flight I say. Very Happy
yes...i agree...cannot always think got mullingan nevermind bad drive. Suay suay one day play with very strict players say no mullingan, how???
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:35 pm

Even in my social game, without any bets, I will add 2 strokes to my score. It's damned painful but that's the way it is until "Somebody up there" tweaked the rulings. So there's no buts about it. Learn from the mistake and make sure you do not become "Kan-jiong spider" when you see a ball and hit it without checking it again.Stretcher 
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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:57 pm

Birdman wrote:

Sure, there are some liberties to be taken with newbies, but there's also another option since it's to encourage a beginner of the game.

Any ball that's in super rough or terrible lie, I help them to move it forward and place it on the fairway where it's sitting up nicely on as level a lie as possible. That's how I keep the game moving forward and yet encourage the beginner while developing good habits. Very Happy
Birdman, at least your newbie golfer is ok with you placing it on the fairway. Smile

Once, suggested to a newbie golfer (whose ball was in a very thick rough) why not pick the ball and place it on the fairway to make it easy and not to worry about scores, golfer refused and after 4 strokes still at the same positon. Shocked  That was the longest game I ever played. lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Penalty for hitting another ball   Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:01 pm

One  way is to learn from other people's mistakes. A better way is to learn from own mistakes so you won't forget.Smile 
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