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 When will jaywalkers ever learn?

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Technospaz
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PostSubject: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:28 am

Another very sad case of a jaywalker. Why don't they just use the bridge or pedestrian crossing?

Straits Times wrote:
Girl, 5, run over by car


Lin Qian (above) and her grandfather were believed to have been jaywalking across the two-lane Punggol Field Road at about 8pm when she was hit. -- PHOTO: SHIN MIN

-----
SHE had started piano lessons at a music school in Punggol Plaza three weeks ago and was already showing a flair for the keys.

But while on the way to her weekly class on Tuesday evening with her grandfather, a car ploughed into Zhao Lin Qian, killing the five-year-old instantly.

The pair were believed to have been jaywalking across the two-lane Punggol Field Road at about 8pm when she was hit.

There was a pedestrian crossing as well as an overheard bridge nearby, but they had not used either.

Lin Qian was pronounced dead at the scene by paramedics, said a Singapore Civil Defence Force spokesman.

Police said that a 27-year-old car salesman, who was at the wheel of the Subaru Impreza, has been arrested and investigations are ongoing.

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_461933.html

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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:37 am

sigh... so young some more.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:01 am

How does the grandfather explain this to the parents?

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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:43 am

OK....here is what I seriously very seriously will like all father to-be, Mother to-be, uncle to-be, aunt to-be, grandparents to-be...or any other be be be...TO NOTE

If you are going out for a walk or run with a stroller and the stroller has a living person inside...... ...PLEASE DO NOT WAIT AT THE ROAD SIDE WITH THE BLOODY STROLLER STICKING OUT....OR CROSS THE ROAD WITH THE STROLLER FIRST......

...I HAD SEEN SO MANY 'BE BE BE', MACAM 'TEST WATER' first by popping the stroller out to the road and then quickly pulling back....
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:58 am

I also dun get it. Singapore is full of traffic lights and overhead bridges. .... Y not put them to good use.. Sigh. Wun kill to wait like 1-2mins for the green man to come on right, or say walk 50-100 m to the ped. crossing... esp with children.
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Mizuno
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:05 pm

Even using SG pedestrian crossing also must be careful of reckless or impatient drivers racing past when the traffic light was yellow... some pedestrian also one kind, traffic light turns red they immediately start to step out, with pram or holding kids... fatal assumption that the incoming car will stop in time....

and so often we see jaywalkers neber double checked the direction of any incoming vehicle while they were half way crossed... another fatal assumption...
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ethee
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:19 pm

Yeah ! and please please don't sms or talk on the mobile while walking on the road, especially with our young ones.

Jus' 2 weeks ago, i was on inner lane at a traffic junction. A man was on his mobile, his other hand holding to a at-most 3yr old girl. After they crossed, he let go of the gal's hand. He walked straight but the little gal turned left and walked another way (against the traffic).

I was about to move off in my black car (2 seconds to green). I suddenly sensed something 'black' moving along side the bonnet area (passenger side). OMG ... tat gal strolled back onto the road... tat man still on the phone. Good thing at tat same moment, he realised and ran towards to pick up his gal. I cannot imagine if she had walked another 2 steps forward, the other car on my rite would have ran her down.

I was totally shocked; frozen at the thot of honking and she dashing towards the outer lane... affraid
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puteh83
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:34 pm

Drivers also have responsibilities to watch out too...

Not too sure about this but i think drivers are at fault most of the times if something like these happen.
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:21 pm

Yes, drivers are always the first to be blamed and also responsible for this accidents. However, I feel that these accidents can so easily be avoided if LTA takes strong action by preventing jaywalkers from jaywalking. They can install barriers, fine people etc. People will never learn, and it doesn't help that little is done to enforce the dangers of jaywalking.

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puteh83
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:54 pm

Technospaz wrote:
Yes, drivers are always the first to be blamed and also responsible for this accidents. However, I feel that these accidents can so easily be avoided if LTA takes strong action by preventing jaywalkers from jaywalking. They can install barriers, fine people etc. People will never learn, and it doesn't help that little is done to enforce the dangers of jaywalking.

If they gonna install/ build anything, they will hv to TAKE the capital from us 1st...
so in the end, it's the drivers paying lah.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:01 pm

puteh83 wrote:
Technospaz wrote:
Yes, drivers are always the first to be blamed and also responsible for this accidents. However, I feel that these accidents can so easily be avoided if LTA takes strong action by preventing jaywalkers from jaywalking. They can install barriers, fine people etc. People will never learn, and it doesn't help that little is done to enforce the dangers of jaywalking.

If they gonna install/ build anything, they will hv to TAKE the capital from us 1st...
so in the end, it's the drivers paying lah.

No, it's the people who are paying. And, it's also the people who are dying.

So, I think it's worthwhile paying to prevent people from dying.

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joleelyn
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:59 pm

Think they have enough budget la.

Plus... whats money when you can save a life...
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:02 pm

It's really a sad news. On the other side, beside Jaywalking is extremely dangerous, I think the driver may have speed also.

I can't bare to read the news... a young life lost...
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:25 pm

Many comments here and I think all are valid. I think ultimately it is your own responsibility for your own/own childrens' safety.

I have jammed my brakes at a cyclist waiting for the traffic light to turn. His front wheel was all the way out onto the road. I sounded my horn 3 times and yet he was deaf to it. Until my car came right in front of his face that he nonchanlently moved it back into the pavement.

So, be it stroller, bicycle, trolley, don't stick it out onto the road. Young and first time parents please take note.

When I saw the report this morning I felt sad too. Although there's nothing that I can do. I think this incident is partly the driver's fault too. 27 year old guy, Subaru Impreza - young guy, powerful car. You get the drift, but then again, who am I to comment?

The newspaper has become a Sad/Bad news- paper for me and it is getting worse. That's why nowadays I read it last thing before I end the day. (Sometimes while taking an evening dump). Reason is not to spoil my mood for the day. Sigh...
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:46 pm

Life is too fragile not to be over cautious. Very unfortunate incident, hope this wakes up the ideas of those Singaporean Raikkonens and Rossis. Our roads are not race tracks.

No offense to F1 and GP fans, in no way am I implying recklessness of these athletes.
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:22 pm

Is the 5 year old girl at fault for Jaywalking? It is wrong to jaywalk, it is wrong that the girl jaywalking. Yet the fault is not on the girl, it is on the parent, the school and many who jaywalking before the eye of this little girl.

The result of this accident is because that the 27 year old speeding and the girl was at the wrong time wrong place and wrong situation to jaywalk. Otherwise, the driver will have be able stop in time or at least won't cause her death.

I would feel disgrace to be a Singaporean, if under the Singapore law, the "5 year old" girl is to take the blame; even the slightest blame in this incident. Dead can not learn the lesson as they already paid the price. The living who cause the death of other through his irresponsible behavior is to be punish. If the dead is a 16 year old and above who is old enough to do what is right, then I would say "Jaywalking" leading to own death is his fault.

Be it that the girl is from China or Singapore. We should look at her age, she is just 5 year old. Do you think all 5 year old can think like this 27 year old guy? He speed and caused the death of a young child, is his crime going to get lighten because of the little girl jaywalking?
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:56 pm

I agree with vaylon.

If the driver wasnt speeding, he could have stopped in time. And perhaps the 5 year old may still have a chance to survive after the knock.

I never like to sit in a car with a reckless "daytona" driver.
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:56 pm

Whatever it is, if i hit somebody, i would be in total wreak regardless of whose fault it is. Arguing about it wouldn't bring back a dead nor diminish any guilt

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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:41 pm

Hang on a sec. Are you saying that the driver is wholly at fault because the girl is only 5 years old and therefore, cannot comprehend that jaywalking is not allowed? A road is a road. Running across it is dangerous. Yes, a driver who was speeding should be faulted but if you have driven on the roads these days, you would realize that you don't need to go too fast to cause damage to something else, particularly people.

Jaywalkers think that they can beat the odds. They dash out from places you wouldn't look and try and run across the street. She's 5 years old... she had little chance to survive any impact from a car.

I wouldn't fault the driver automatically. If anything, I think the blame lies with multiple parties such as the grandfather who should have known better.

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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:48 pm

It's hard to see for us who's at fault here, but I agree that this is many parties fault. I believe the family may have casually and regularly jaywalks, making the little girl do the same when she's on her own. I have and will never jaywalk when I'm with my son. Period.

But on another note, the driver, may have driven his car too fast, probably 20-30km above the speed limit for city driving (I believe the speed limit is 55km/h). That's why he can't brake on time...

Not referring to this incident, I believe some of you saw the news where a jaywalker tried to cross PIE, causing accident and a motorist die because of it.
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:46 pm

In this case, i think he was speeding. According to news, the girl was dragged more than 80m. Kind of hard to imagine that. Supposedly ppl said he was weaving in and out recklessly at high speed prior to the accident. But that is from those chinese sensationalised news. But i believe there would be some truth as sph would never allow a news to be publish if it may prejudice a case before trial. If it is untrue, the driver could sue for lots of damage

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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:56 pm

Technospaz wrote:
Hang on a sec. Are you saying that the driver is wholly at fault because the girl is only 5 years old and therefore, cannot comprehend that jaywalking is not allowed? A road is a road. Running across it is dangerous. Yes, a driver who was speeding should be faulted but if you have driven on the roads these days, you would realize that you don't need to go too fast to cause damage to something else, particularly people.

Jaywalkers think that they can beat the odds. They dash out from places you wouldn't look and try and run across the street. She's 5 years old... she had little chance to survive any impact from a car.

I wouldn't fault the driver automatically. If anything, I think the blame lies with multiple parties such as the grandfather who should have known better.

Do you know that under the employment act, as long as you are below 21, whatever contract you sign, you won't be liable for it. However, you are still able to use it against the company for any damages they caused to you.

Why is it so? Why is it that when you are below 21, you are entitle to this? As you are below that age, you are not on the clear mind when you sign it. Correct me if I am wrong. As for a 5 year old. Why should she be blame when she doing a right thing? In law, it is wrong to jaywalk, but in the eye of the 5 year old, it maybe common to jaywalk. She is too young to judge and know what is right and wrong. Putting the blame on her is ridiculous. Do you even call yourself an adult for blaming a child? This is Singapore, we are a developed country, do we have to have the FIVE YEAR OLD girl held responsible for a mistake of a TWENTY SEVEN YEAR OLD or we share it between both of them? The dead will never come alive, but does it mean that we can put the blame on her? The guy should get the maximum punishment without any leniency.

Let me put it this way in my own view (it is just an assumption base on what I read), the child is leading way for his grandpa. She look left and right to ensure it is safe to walk, then she look back at her grandpa to tell him to faster. She cross the road, as she walk she turn back and look at her grandpa again, just when she was going to call him to faster. The car knock her down.

As for the driver, he could have saw the girl walking from far away. As a driver, he judge that the girl will be on the other side by the time she crossed, so he didn't reduce his speed. He never know that a little girl do not walk so fast neither did he know that she was leading her grandpa. By the time the girl reduce her speed and look at her grandpa, the driver couldn't stop in time. The tragic happen.

Well it is just an assumption. Why did the girl look left and right? From our Kindergarten, we are told that when WE CROSS THE STREET WE LOOK LEFT AND RIGHT. Why did she look behind, her grandpa is behind, naturally she will look behind before crossing.. The delay in it before she cross, and the delay of her slowing her pace on the road to look back on her grandpa add on that delay.

So if all are true, then the driver will have miscalculate about his car will not hit on her in that speed, causing him not to slow down. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE GIRL WILL RUN ACROSS THE ROAD. Why? If you are leading way for people behind you who are slower, you need not run and while crossing, also to ensure the safety of the one behind you, you sure will look out for traffic..

If she did all precaution, why is she been knock down? I guess is the delays I mention to cause her to have not notice the speeding car, plus the driver didn't even slow down from far away despite seeing her on the road.. However what is truth will be judge by the court and not by me.. I hope I don't get anything from speaking my mind.

As a Singaporean and a 23 year old. I feel totally disgrace if someone tell me that under the jurisdiction of Singapore Law, we put the blame on a 5 years old child instead of harshly punishing a 27 year old who is speeding.. This is a road with many traffic, not a highway for him to test his Subaru Impreza. I wonder if he even stop when the traffic light is red.
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:24 pm

rules are not perfect. Singapore many things cannot do below age 21, but at age 18 learn how to effectively kill ppl liao (NS).

This reminds me of the guy who reverse too fast from a far distance and kill a lady. Excuse was chiong for car park, judge say lady should have looked BOTH ways on a one way street. Maybe next time at the golf course i should look out for the balls flying at me from the front flight.

Driver to blame? = ofcourse, he was allegedly speeding = automatic wrong.

Blame the victim/those attending to victim? = this is to educate other pedestrian that sometimes its the pedestrian actions + other (driver) reckless actions = accident or death, not a one sided cause.

speeding on the road, if the Gov is really serious, they would put a speed inhibitor in all SG cars and place Heavy fine for EVERY pedestrian that is jay walking.

Gov is quite lax on the speeding rule (they could easily put digital speed camera on the highway and catch thousands of drivers speeding everyday) and i have only seen the police get serious on jaywalking once (the Eunos bus stop dash across the road to the MRT), only after years of 'feedback'. Now finally they did something about the ridiculous triple traffic light crossing to cross to the MRT). Even then they go and single out foreign worker and old aunties and let all the executives and office ladies 'go free'.

They spend more time policing the bus lanes. Reason? more people complain about buses being jammed and being late for work.

They could actually make a lot more money from catching ppl speeding. ppl even speed in one of the more controlled stretch of road (KPE)
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:07 pm

tronos wrote:
if the Gov is really serious, they would put a speed inhibitor in all SG cars

Well I agree to that, and also to have the car spot check randomly to see if the driver modify or remove any of those speed inhibitor hehe.. But as for Jaywalking hor, not all the place have the traffic light situate at the right place lei.. Maybe it is right for the car, so as to control the flow of traffic..

But as for pedestrian, it may not be the right place. Sometime to get to the next bus stop you got to cross the road, as the traffic light on both side will take you an extra 30 min to get there. But if a traffic light is make just for the bus stop, it don't really make sense =(

There are times you cannot blame people jaywalk lei, it is totally time consuming using the traffic light as they are quite far away and make a big big round. But of course not on those busy road where car keep going, it just logical to use traffic light since it is too dangerous to walk on that road..

Yet I dun agree to the educate part of blaming the dead to teach the livings. It is like when people already suffering u rub salt on their wound. I don't agree to put any blame on that poor little girl. That is why I even bother to register here just to make my comment hehe..
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PostSubject: Re: When will jaywalkers ever learn?   Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:38 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong TS since ur the lawyer here.

I don't think it's really a matter of blaming the little girl, it's about setting a precedent in terms of the law, which is pretty much black n white. In the eyes of the law, wrong is wrong, no exceptions, no morality issues. I think we all know that especially in this little red dot.

Judges n lawyers look to past cases for precedence, refering back to them and arguing that "see, this was the judegement in this case, as such in our case...." so to mantain the integrity of the how the original law was set out and not to veer from it over time, it's interpreted as strictly to the letter as possible, if not, with every different little exception to the rule, you'll find that suddenly, the law orginally set out becomes so different to what it has eventually become. Like how threads morph into totally different topics here in GR.

The little girl is seen as just a pedestrian, nothing more. Cos if not, then over time (decades or centuries perhaps), all blame will fall on purely drivers, leaving pedestrians to jaywalk as they please causing further havoc on the roads.

Please excuse my very simplistic view of way of putting it across. JMHO!
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