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 Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?

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Mizzman
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PostSubject: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:51 pm

Hi, just wanted to find out from the experienced golfers of GR whether all holes on a golf course are supposed to have the same speed?

Played at Green Fairways last week and there was a drastic difference in greens speed for quite a few of the holes...which made putting quite a nightmare! (Needless to say this contributed to a terrible score!) Mad
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daveaha
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:52 pm

Green fairways is still open ?

I think during the last game at Starhill, the speed is uneven for each green. Some are fast, some are slow.

Not sure why...
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:57 pm

very normal for different greens to have different speeds. Some maybe higher up when drainage is better and some greens may be at the bottom where drainage is slower.

Not many course have consistent green speed through out. such course are usually the Championship course standard.
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Mizzman
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:58 pm

It's still open and doing very well (on weekends at least...many ang mos there). Playing there is like mountain climbing though...every hole also go up and down.

I always thought that all holes on a course should have very similar green speed...if not it'll be extremely difficult to measure the right strength of putts right?
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:02 pm

daveaha wrote:
Green fairways is still open ?

I think during the last game at Starhill, the speed is uneven for each green. Some are fast, some are slow.

Not sure why...

downhill and uphill? Haha... Actually starhill greens are actually one of the better ones in m'sia

for that price can't really expect augusta or serapong standard

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Mizzman
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:05 pm

Hi Muar Chee...based on your experience, what are the key signs that you look out for in gauging the green speed?
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:16 pm

Mizzman wrote:
Hi Muar Chee...based on your experience, what are the key signs that you look out for in gauging the green speed?


green fees.....
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:22 pm

best greens that i have played in singapore?

TMCC Gardens.
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:29 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
best greens that i have played in singapore?

TMCC Gardens.




MC, your putting stance bit gu-liang..... ROFL
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Mizzman
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:31 pm

so the only way to overcome the problem of different speeds on different greens on the same course is to pay more money to go to better golf courses?

that's very sad for poor ppl like me Sad
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Ssquirrel
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sat Dec 05, 2009 10:34 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
best greens that i have played in singapore?

TMCC Gardens.
Bro.. u look like you need to go wee-wee leh.....
albino

Liddat... need to reconsider your application to SCB leh..:
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:01 am

Unfortunately, thats the sad fact of golf in Sg.

Like many threads here, alot find MBGCC pretty good but also a pretty penny for a public course. There are times when I played there where it was real nice and smooth and also times where it was pretty crappy.

MC, see, I told u I'm not the oni one who thinks so abt ur stance. Razz
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kuuligan
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:37 am

alot depends on weather also

it might start off slow in the early morning and then speed up by the afternoon once the grass starts to dry up
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:56 pm

A very important factor in putting which has a significant effect on the speed of greens is what is called the "grain". This is the direction that the grass is growing in. In warmer climates, such as Singapore, most grass is bermuda. This means the grass lies down or grows in a certain direction.

You could have a 10 meter putt which is going into the grain of the grass which will appear to be very slow. Putting into the grain creates friction on the ball and slows it down.

Putting down the grain of the green will make the same length of putt roll much faster. This time there is less friction on the ball, making it roll faster.

Courses with alot of grain in the greens, creates the illusion that the greens may be different speeds.

Courses with a high maintenance budget can overcome the effects of grain by performing such things as verti-cutting. This is a procedure that de-thatches and removes the amount of grain, producing a more consistent roll of the ball.
Your lower budget courses with less maintenance will generally not perform the verti-cutting as often and greens will not be as good

Most golfers get upset when the greens are renovated but it is a necessary procedure to ensure better quality in the long term.
The pictures below show a green that has been vert-cut and the machine used





Being able to overcome the effects of grain with your putting is possible. There is a trick to reading the grain of the green. I will start up a new thread dedicated to this topic and I am sure it will help most eliminate the dreaded 3 putts. Having the correct speed on your putt is crucial to good putting.
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:08 pm

slinger wrote:
Mizzman wrote:
Hi Muar Chee...based on your experience, what are the key signs that you look out for in gauging the green speed?


green fees.....

Bets.

Seriously, I would say that the green speeds differ from hole to hole. The green speed which the club assigns is meant more as a guide and serves to give golfers a heads-up as to what to expect for most of the holes but not likely all the holes.

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jaketang
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:23 pm

good post paul!!

true abt the grain thingy.... Smile
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:36 pm

nbz.

oh yah. mbgc is another 'affordable' place with good greens.


no gu niang this time.
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Mizzman
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:36 pm

Right_sided_coach wrote:
A very important factor in putting which has a significant effect on the speed of greens is what is called the "grain". This is the direction that the grass is growing in. In warmer climates, such as Singapore, most grass is bermuda. This means the grass lies down or grows in a certain direction.

You could have a 10 meter putt which is going into the grain of the grass which will appear to be very slow. Putting into the grain creates friction on the ball and slows it down.

Putting down the grain of the green will make the same length of putt roll much faster. This time there is less friction on the ball, making it roll faster.

Courses with alot of grain in the greens, creates the illusion that the greens may be different speeds.

Courses with a high maintenance budget can overcome the effects of grain by performing such things as verti-cutting. This is a procedure that de-thatches and removes the amount of grain, producing a more consistent roll of the ball.
Your lower budget courses with less maintenance will generally not perform the verti-cutting as often and greens will not be as good

Most golfers get upset when the greens are renovated but it is a necessary procedure to ensure better quality in the long term.
The pictures below show a green that has been vert-cut and the machine used





Being able to overcome the effects of grain with your putting is possible. There is a trick to reading the grain of the green. I will start up a new thread dedicated to this topic and I am sure it will help most eliminate the dreaded 3 putts. Having the correct speed on your putt is crucial to good putting.

Many thanks for this...it actually answers quite a few of the questions I had previously. Thanks TS too, for clarifying that it is not a rule that all the greens should have the same speed, but rather more or less just a guideline that the clubs follow.

One question that naturally follows from the above post is that how do you tell whether the putt is going against or towards the grain of the grass? Question
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ironhead
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:55 pm

If I really have to judge the grain (which I shuld do more often for long putts), I tend to

1) look at the hole, usually there is a tell-tale sign where the grass is growing.
2) as u walk towards the green, just take a glance at the green not just for the slopes but also how bright the green is under the sun. if light is reflected off the green, this means the blades of the grass is growing away fr you.

there is no formulae to calculate how hard u should then putt, this extra info will be registered in yr brain subconsciously.

apart from this, one way to check how damn/soggy/water lodged the green is to see how easy pitch marks are generally formed and the no. of old pitch marks.

just my humble opinion.
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Birdman
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PostSubject: Re: Are the Speed of Greens supposed to be the same on a golf course?   Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:58 pm

Bring a magnifying glass along the next time you play! ROFL

But seriously, in general, grass should grow towards water, so the grain will likewise be in that direction.

To check along your line, view the grass from behind your ball and from behind the hole. If the grass looks lighter in colour from behind the ball and darker from behind the hole, ur putting with the grain and vice versa.

Another way is to walk up to the hole and you will notice one edge is bare of grass exposing the earth, that then is the direction of the grain.
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