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 Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard

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garylin
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PostSubject: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:51 pm

Debate with a friend for very long but no conclusion:

Imagine you are at a par 3 island hole and you shoot your ball over the green:


Red line is the flight that the ball took. Should the drop point be (a) or (b)? From rule book is last point of entry so supposed to be (b) ? Some people like my friend insists it should be (a). So (a) or (b)?

Any pros can comment?
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wongwengkham
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:09 pm

garylin wrote:
Debate with a friend for very long but no conclusion:

Imagine you are at a par 3 island hole and you shoot your ball over the green:


Red line is the flight that the ball took. Should the drop point be (a) or (b)? From rule book is last point of entry so supposed to be (b) ? Some people like my friend insists it should be (a). So (a) or (b)?

Any pros can comment?

I have played long enough and have heard this argument many times before. The correct answer is in my opinion A. If the ball have landed on the green and rolled over into the water then the answer would be B.
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flashpacker
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:30 pm

Isn't there a designated drop zone for Par 3?
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ChrisD
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:34 pm

Depends on what type of golfer you playing with, some can argue until rules also don't need to follow and just follow his rules.
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:37 pm

Normally this type of par 3 should be yellow stick, PGA rules is tee off from (a) some says must be 2 club length from (a) yellow stick. 

If it's really red stick all round the green, drop from (b)
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oldie-newbie
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:47 pm

From WRX :

It depends on whether the WH is marked with yellow or red stakes.

If yellow, in addition to playing from the original position you may drop on the far side of the hazard from the hole, on a line from the hole, through the point wher the ball last crossed the margin of the WH (regardless of which side of the WH it crossed eg if it fell back) as far from the hole as you like.

If red, you have two additional options.
Within 2cl of the point it last crossed the margin of the WH, not nearer the hole than that point 
or on the opposite side of the the WH, equidistant from that point not nearer the hole.


-------------------------


a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the holeand the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

But given the configuration of 17 at Sawgrass, if you air-mail the green and you were to choose option "b" above, the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard would be on the back of the green, and you would have to drop on a line from the pin to that crossing point back across the water in the direction further from the tee -- not "on the front side of the WH" as you wrote above.  If the ball fell short of the green into the water, the front side option you describe would be a possibility, though given the tee placement it's likely that that spot would be almost as far away from the hole as the tee was originally, so some prefer to re-tee instead. 
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brendanzhuo
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:26 pm

i thought the key point is the point at which the ball LAST crossed the margin of the water hazard.. if thats the case, then isnt it always point (b)?
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:08 pm

IMHO, with greens like these, it is usually yellow stakes.

It will also depends on where your pin is located.

If pin is located front left. you may take a line from when the ball last crossed into the hazard and the pin, you might be able to drop at the narrow walkway.

Dropping at (b) is incorrect as it will be nearer the hole.

Cheers
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garylin
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:14 pm

wa.. so is it (a) or (b)?

Let's assume red stick first.
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Rafj
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:28 pm

(a) is one of the correct options. (b) is nearer the hole and cannot be an option at all.

depending on where the pin is, there are 4 more options.

Cheers
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Balata88
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:19 pm

Agree with Bro Rafj; option (b) is closer to the hole (in relation to the ball's final resting position in the hazard) and hence cannot be considered as a viable option.

To eliminate these confusions, most courses usually have local rules and designated drop zones for u to play off, at a penalty of one stroke (ball unplayable).
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garylin
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:18 pm

if land on green first, then roll off, is point (b) a viable option?
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:35 pm

If it's yellow, no.
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flashpacker
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:54 pm

Balata88 wrote:
Agree with Bro Rafj; option (b) is closer to the hole (in relation to the ball's final resting position in the hazard) and hence cannot be considered as a viable option.

To eliminate these confusions, most courses usually have local rules and designated drop zones for u to play off, at a penalty of one stroke (ball unplayable).

Yes i thought so too.
Usually island holes have drop zone.
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Beneoo
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:22 pm

This diagram looks like MBGC island par 3.. If not wrong there's a drop zone at the back just near to the walk way to the green..
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garylin
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:58 pm

Beneoo wrote:
This diagram looks like MBGC island par 3.. If not wrong there's a drop zone at the back just near to the walk way to the green..

took it as a reference.

Generally, most par 3s with water have a drop zone. but only to be used for social play right?
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brendanzhuo
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:52 am

I posted this on a Facebook group for golf officials. 
See the reply:
In applying rule 26-1 one needs to examine where the ball last crossed the margins of the water body. In the diagram it would be at point (b). Thus if it is a water hazard the player would have to use that reference point (b) and drop the ball on the opposite side to negotiate the water body again and the player may drop the ball as far back as he or she wishes keeping that reference point (b) between the hole and where he or she is to drop the ball OR go back to where one last played before it entered the water body. If it was a lateral water hazard then the player has an  additional option of dropping the ball within two club lengths not nearer the hole that (b). Also because it is an island green do check whether the LR provide a drop zone. I hope this helps,.
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flashpacker
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:24 pm

garylin wrote:
Beneoo wrote:
This diagram looks like MBGC island par 3.. If not wrong there's a drop zone at the back just near to the walk way to the green..

took it as a reference.

Generally, most par 3s with water have a drop zone. but only to be used for social play right?

I have never seen drop zones removed /closed during tournaments or on TV.  If I recall correctly, I have seen on TV pros hitting shots from drop zones.  Sometimes they prefer to hit a shot again from the tee box (perhaps due to better line).

So I dont think drop zones are used only for social games.
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Rafj
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:47 am

During the Singapore National Amateur and SGA Inter-Club league matches, the drops zones are closed and players have to proceed with dropping their balls according to the Rules of Golf.
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flashpacker
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:18 am

Rafj wrote:
During the Singapore National Amateur and SGA Inter-Club league matches, the drops zones are closed and players have to proceed with dropping their balls according to the Rules of Golf.

Oic, thanks for sharing. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Question on Point of Entry for Red Hazard   Today at 1:19 am

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