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 How to convert a fade to a draw

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flashpacker
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:59 pm

What about a straight ball?
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andrew-golf
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Mar 02, 2016 8:47 am

My opinion is a striaght ball will still be longer and carry more than a fade
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jimmychoo
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:45 pm

I hit a straight ball but shorter than my friend's fade shot  Sad
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flashpacker
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:12 pm

My friend's fade short is equally long to my draw shot.
Am a bit concerned why my draw is not longer than his fade.Shocked
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andrew-golf
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:17 pm

flashpacker wrote:
My friend's fade short is equally long to my draw shot.
Am a bit concerned why my draw is not longer than his fade.Shocked




Technically it shouldn't happen. nothing wrong with a fade if the golfer is happy with the drive distance.



Issue is I'm not happy haha. and my game can improve much more if I hit a draw
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Nam Flog
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:26 pm

Hi Andrew,

I have taiko hitter few draws before based on my coach recommendations.

Change from 2 knuckle to 3 knuckle grip i.e. stronger grip.
Right feet slight behind left.
Drop right shoulder at address, must be below left shoulder.
Keep thinking swing thought that must swing in to out. Then my arms and hands automatically make sure they turnover because of this swing thought.

These helped me to hit a draw before.
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andrew-golf
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:38 am

After 10 lessons and 3 months of training at the range

I still can't hit that baby draw that I was looking for haiz 

But the fade is gone and I gained a few meters off my drive

Taking baby steps
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Turbo
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:09 am

Maybe the quickest solution is close the clubhead a wee bit at address ...

Long term solution is, stand a little away from the ball at address, move ball a little towards centre, close stance a little, train your body to hit inside-out (attack at the bottom lower quadrant of the ball) and do a complete following thru ...
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milkem
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:36 am



Based on the above, you need to present a club face square to target, swinging on an in-to-out path. The problem for driver is that impact is located forward of stance, and you are hitting up at the ball. This means that a neutral swing path will result in a fade/slice. I found the below website very clear in explaining this:

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2011/07/understanding-swing-plane-and-club-path

In summary, for driver, assuming a neutral face and you are hitting up at the ball(positive angle of attack), you need to be swinging in-to-out to hit straight, and even more in-to-out to hit draws.

Something that I noticed for my own setup (may be different for others), is that because the club head is so far forward of stance and my eye line is behind the club head, if the club head looked square to target to my eye, it was actually open. For the club head to be actually square to target, it would look closed to my eye. For the longest time I could only hit fades/slices as I was setting up with a club face that looked square but was actually open to target.

Hope the above helps!
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andrew-golf
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:01 pm

good post!
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Rafj
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:41 pm

milkem wrote:


Based on the above, you need to present a club face square to target, swinging on an in-to-out path. The problem for driver is that impact is located forward of stance, and you are hitting up at the ball. This means that a neutral swing path will result in a fade/slice. I found the below website very clear in explaining this:

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2011/07/understanding-swing-plane-and-club-path

In summary, for driver, assuming a neutral face and you are hitting up at the ball(positive angle of attack), you need to be swinging in-to-out to hit straight, and even more in-to-out to hit draws.

Something that I noticed for my own setup (may be different for others), is that because the club head is so far forward of stance and my eye line is behind the club head, if the club head looked square to target to my eye, it was actually open. For the club head to be actually square to target, it would look closed to my eye. For the longest time I could only hit fades/slices as I was setting up with a club face that looked square but was actually open to target.

Hope the above helps!
Understand the D plane and you will be able to play your baby draws/

Can't go against science.

I used to play a slight fade with my driver until I understood the D plane and just by pulling my right foot back about 6 inches back at address, I now play a baby draw, which gave me a good 15 metres more.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepMzddHpas

Hope this helps.

Cheers
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dimpledgolfball
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:32 am

milkem wrote:


Based on the above, you need to present a club face square to target, swinging on an in-to-out path. The problem for driver is that impact is located forward of stance, and you are hitting up at the ball. This means that a neutral swing path will result in a fade/slice. I found the below website very clear in explaining this:

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/andrew-rice-golf/2011/07/understanding-swing-plane-and-club-path

In summary, for driver, assuming a neutral face and you are hitting up at the ball(positive angle of attack), you need to be swinging in-to-out to hit straight, and even more in-to-out to hit draws.

Something that I noticed for my own setup (may be different for others), is that because the club head is so far forward of stance and my eye line is behind the club head, if the club head looked square to target to my eye, it was actually open. For the club head to be actually square to target, it would look closed to my eye. For the longest time I could only hit fades/slices as I was setting up with a club face that looked square but was actually open to target.

Hope the above helps!

In the link, there was something about shifting the swing plane to the left/right for irons/driver.

How do we go about doing that? Does it mean aiming to the left/right (shifting your whole body)? 
Or just trying to swing more to the left/right? 

How about the club face? If we shift our aim to the left/right of target, should the club face still be aligned square to the target?
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Rafj
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:08 am

It's about D plane BUT that is only IF you are hitting down on the irons and hitting up on the Driver.

If your attack angle is negative for the driver, it will be different.

Hope this helps.

Cheers
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milkem
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:22 am

dimpledgolfball wrote:
In the link, there was something about shifting the swing plane to the left/right for irons/driver.

How do we go about doing that? Does it mean aiming to the left/right (shifting your whole body)? 
Or just trying to swing more to the left/right? 

How about the club face? If we shift our aim to the left/right of target, should the club face still be aligned square to the target?

There are multiple variables that can be changed, and they all have an effect. But for discussion's sake, let's assume face is square to target at address for all scenarios, ceteris paribus:

We are meant to hit down on irons, hence to hit the ball straight, swing path needs to be more out-to-in, ie. swinging more to the left of target.
We are meant to hit up on driver, hence to hit the ball straight, swing path needs to be more in-to-out, ie. swinging more to the right of target.

The above can be achieved in many ways, one of which is the body alignment, which has an effect on your swing path. I believe this is what bro Rafj was referring to when he set up his right foot 6 inches to the back, this has an effect of changing the swing path to a more in-to-out path. It feels very counter-intuitive as it will feel like you are swinging to the right to get the ball drawing to the left.

Alternatively, you can also change your actual swing mechanics to achieve a desired in-to-out/out-to-in swing path but naturally (no pun intended) this would be more difficult.
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Rafj
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:26 am

milkem wrote:
dimpledgolfball wrote:
In the link, there was something about shifting the swing plane to the left/right for irons/driver.

How do we go about doing that? Does it mean aiming to the left/right (shifting your whole body)? 
Or just trying to swing more to the left/right? 

How about the club face? If we shift our aim to the left/right of target, should the club face still be aligned square to the target?

There are multiple variables that can be changed, and they all have an effect. But for discussion's sake, let's assume face is square to target at address for all scenarios, ceteris paribus:

We are meant to hit down on irons, hence to hit the ball straight, swing path needs to be more out-to-in, ie. swinging more to the left of target.
We are meant to hit up on driver, hence to hit the ball straight, swing path needs to be more in-to-out, ie. swinging more to the right of target.

The above can be achieved in many ways, one of which is the body alignment, which has an effect on your swing path. I believe this is what bro Rafj was referring to when he set up his right foot 6 inches to the back, this has an effect of changing the swing path to a more in-to-out path. It feels very counter-intuitive as it will feel like you are swinging to the right to get the ball drawing to the left.

Alternatively, you can also change your actual swing mechanics to achieve a desired in-to-out/out-to-in swing path but naturally (no pun intended) this would be more difficult.
Mike, you are right.

To hit the driver straight, according to the D plane, you have to aim club face and body to 1 o'clock.

Irons, 11 o'clock.
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dimpledgolfball
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:13 pm

Cool, thanks bro Rafj and Mike for the explanation. 

To further clarify, assuming ideal conditions, if we aim 11/1 o'clock for irons/driver, the ball will land on your intended target line? 

However, that doesn't mean that the shot shape is straight, it would more of be a baby fade/draw? 

This is interesting stuff.
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milkem
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:34 pm

dimpledgolfball wrote:
Cool, thanks bro Rafj and Mike for the explanation. 

To further clarify, assuming ideal conditions, if we aim 11/1 o'clock for irons/driver, the ball will land on your intended target line? 

However, that doesn't mean that the shot shape is straight, it would more of be a baby fade/draw? 

This is interesting stuff.

Driver
Assuming hitting up on the ball (positive angle of attack), if you aim 1 o'clock for driver, the face should arrive at the ball pointing straight at target, and club path should also be theoretically dead straight at target. As such, ball should go straight. 1 o'clock is for ease of discussion only, it really depends on your individual swing path and angle of attack, I think the more accurate description should be "in-to-out". Whether it's 1 o'clock, or slightly more, or slightly less, will depend on your swing.

In-to-out path, positive attack angle:
Path and face are both straight at the point of impact

To hit a baby draw in the above example, either:
1) Maintain face angle, change path slightly more in-to-out
2) Maintain path, close face slightly (this is more a pull-draw)
3) Change path more in-to-out, close face slightly (this is more a push-draw) 

Irons
Assuming hitting down on the ball (negative angle of attack), if you aim 11 o'clock for irons, the face should arrive at the ball pointing straight at target, and club path should also be theoretically dead straight at target. As such, ball should go straight. 11 o'clock is for ease of discussion only, it really depends on your individual swing path and angle of attack, I think the more accurate description should be "in-to-out". Whether it's 11 o'clock, or slightly more, or slightly less, will depend on your swing.

Out-to-in path, negative attack angle:
Path and face are both straight at the point of impact


Check out this video of Rory Mcilroy hitting a wedge:

You can see the divot flying to the left (club head is moving out-to-in) and the ball flying slightly to the right.



Disclaimer: I am not a pro, and definitely not a good player. I just love to read up in depth on any subject that I have an interest in. Please consult your Golf Pro/Coach instead  Smile
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Rafj
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:33 pm

Very detailed explanation Mike, you can almost be pro liao.....

:-)
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milkem
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:51 pm

Rafj wrote:
Very detailed explanation Mike, you can almost be pro liao.....

:-)

I keyboard warrior only, more suited for playing WGT Golf on iPad  Laughing
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Rafj
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:30 pm

Most importantly, that you know the physics behind it and knows what to work on.........should be matter of time that your hcp come down to single digit.....:-)
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dimpledgolfball
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:26 pm

Thanks Mike for taking time out to share this information. Much appreciated!

Let me read it carefully and try to digest this gem.
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PostSubject: Re: How to convert a fade to a draw   Today at 10:05 am

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