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 bo liao thoughts on golf

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ghoonk
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PostSubject: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:34 pm

Given how ball technology has evolved over the years, would it be reasonable to say that even a simple ball like a Tour Special or even the Zero Friction balls are technologically superior where performance (distance and spin control) is concerned, compared to balls of the 80s era?

If so, considering that players back in those days were shooting pars with much less technologically advanced drivers, fairway woods, hybrids (which some old timers scoff at and regard with the same derision as chippers), irons, wedges, balls, and putters, does ball technology really make a difference?

On a parallel note, are modern technologies making the game easier to pick up but harder to master? Back in the days, people who wanted to pick up the game of golf had to build a sound swing in order to strike the ball well/solid, whereas modern day cavity backs (e.g. Callaway Big Bertha) are so forgiving that it is possible to still play well with a funky swing. Nothing wrong with cavity backs, semi-hybrid sets, etc, and I have seen single digit handicappers play with such GI clubs, and they work well for them.

Is golf really about the means or the ends? Discuss Very Happy
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peter.golfer
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:49 pm

Hello

This topics was discussed in one of the US golf site. Why the technology has not brought down the average score of golfers? Several reasons are stated:
a. Good players are getting old and unable to play (even how good the golf clubs can be).
b. They are making the course longer because of the technology, in order not for golfer to hit eagle too easier.
c. Young golfers starting to pick up golf, although with latest technology, are not able to swing and manage the course well.
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tronos
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:00 pm

tell the truth, when there is only one type of clubs, we will condition ourselves to play that club. May take longer but eventually will 'get it'.

Now got so many different types. Even drivers are different, close/open face, lower/higher CG, more/less perimeter weighting, different MOI, different shape, different grip weight/size/feel, different shaft weight/flex/bend/tip/butt..........even have the same driver that can have different settings....plus the club ho in us keeps changing clubs even if the old driver hits the furthest and straightest......how to be consistent when the settings keep changing.

BTW i think i have screw myself playing both the Adams 9015D and 5900 sumo driver. One is extremely close, one is open...one is D5, the other is D2......but cannot bring myself to get rid of one. (hit better with 5900 but die die want to succeed with 9015D)
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:08 pm

on point #1, good players getting old -- Let's use Tom Watson as an example. He's using cavity backs, similar to what many players on tour are using (villegas is using Pro CBs, and many players are on Titleist AP2s), has a hybrid or two which other players (e.g. YE Yang) are using, yet he plays as well as many other players half his age. I'd bet he could shoot even par off the blue tees using Wilson FG-17s and Pinnacle Gold balls, so this has me wondering if technology really makes that much of a difference.

on point #2 : Longer courses? Okay, let's say we compensate by playing off white tees. That easily puts the course at 6000 yds or so, in line with courses in those days. Few of us will still shoot pars, even with Penta TP balls and tour-issued kit, so is technology really making a difference? hmm

on point #3 that you stated above, in the old days (I sound like an old git now), young golfers who wanted to pick up and play the game well had to learn a sound swing, good tempo, etc etc etc. Course management has nothing to do with age -- I just had my backside handed to me earlier this week by a 50-year old man with a 10 HCP. Nothing about his game is long, but his swing was textbook, and he was damn good around and on the greens. Granted, he was playing with Callaway X20 irons, and hit a wicked fade off his longer clubs.
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:11 pm

tronos wrote:
tell the truth, when there is only one type of clubs, we will condition ourselves to play that club. May take longer but eventually will 'get it'.

Now got so many different types. Even drivers are different, close/open face, lower/higher CG, more/less perimeter weighting, different MOI, different shape, different grip weight/size/feel, different shaft weight/flex/bend/tip/butt..........even have the same driver that can have different settings....plus the club ho in us keeps changing clubs even if the old driver hits the furthest and straightest......how to be consistent when the settings keep changing.

BTW i think i have screw myself playing both the Adams 9015D and 5900 sumo driver. One is extremely close, one is open...one is D5, the other is D2......but cannot bring myself to get rid of one. (hit better with 5900 but die die want to succeed with 9015D)

My point exactly -- with all these 'options', are we just screwing around with our heads? I'm almost sure that back in the day, Ben Hogan and Arnold Palmer were playing really well without this many variables Very Happy If they started hitting fades instead of draws, it's the swing, fix the swing.

Let's say we get custom fitted so we get the perfect launch angle, spin rate, ball speed, swing speed on every club in our bag. Does this get us closer to even par, or does that simply set the foundation to build a good swing on?
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:15 pm

At which point do we start to admit that we're just suckers for cool technology and something else to blame for bad swings? Wink

I'm definitely a sucker for these things. But I still have to work on developing my swing for more consistency. Screw power, i just need to hit the ball straight and reasonably far
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:49 pm

One thing which i observe is that the older generation players...the Seve, the palmer....they are all (in my layman...amateurish observation)...very much self thought...resulting in being a feel player...whereby resulting them being more adaptable...to most environment and lie etc etc.......

while folks like me....sigh....I need to make sure the birds stop chirpping...the wind stop blowing, the sky must be blue , the air must be of optimum density...so as to play well (meaning at least 2 pars per game....u can guess the score)
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:56 pm

Good point. Does that mean that modern technology is so forgiving that many of us may eventually get to be pretty decent players but never learning the correct swing or feel? Are we changing the way we evolve?

To use a slightly extreme analogy, if a child is allowed to continue using a stroller till he/she is 15 years old, would he/she develop stronger legs or weaker legs?

Ultimately, the game of golf should be about enjoyment, where we can play our best round using whatever tools are available. But in the greater philosophy of the game, do we eventually deprive ourselves from enjoying the feel of a perfectly executed shot, of a keen leading edge crafting the perfect divot, the ball 'squishing' against the face of the club, ripping through the air in a beautifully penetrating arc, etc?

Has the game of golf really become only about putting the ball into the hole in as few strokes as possible?

I'm tossing this out for the fun of a debate and discussion. Clearly, we all have differing points of view, and i'm just trying to get a constructive debate going Smile There's no right or wrong answer to this, obviously Smile
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golf_nut
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:34 pm

agree that technology has indeed shaped the way of golf today.

imo, players now put much emphasis on type of equipment to gain that edge in lowering their scores, not that its a bad thing but i feel that it'd be a pity if players are not grasping the correct fundamentals since clubs now give the option of more "forgiveability"..

having said that, golf is a game to be enjoyed at all skill levels I feel, and its so much fun because no 2 shots are the same, having to adjust to different terrain and external conditions, good shots you relish and remember, bad ones you try to learn from and try not to repeat.. much akin to real working life dont you think?

cheers
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:38 pm

yup, much like in real life. Sometimes, having the right 'backing', 'background', etc helps, but it takes away opportunities to develop 'character' and 'skills' that help one become a 'better' person.

I think that modern technology has really made it easy for people to take up the game, but sadly, people are going for easier equipment instead of fixing swing faults -- like life, sometimes it is easier to 'buy' your way out of trouble rather than to change character flaws... Smile

So, does the suit make the man, or does the man make the suit? Wink
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:04 pm

that is why I guess the vision of the manufacturers are to increase golfers.....but not quality......how I know.....answer: I look into the mirror.....play almost 8 years liao....still like tat.....
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:07 pm

Can I join your club? Everytime I think I am starting to play better, my swing walks out on me. Extremely frustrating -- I only get a couple of good shots every round, and the rest are just 'make-do' scrambles from the weirdest places. Been a bogeyman for some time, and would like to start shooting more pars in 2010. That said, putting pressure to play better just screws up my game even more, so it's a no-win situation. Gotta let things flow somehow...
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S70B
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:30 pm

Before I started being fitted for my equipment I was off an 11 hdcp back in 2003. I got myself an AGU hdcp when I was based in Aust and got fitted for 1 set of clubs and playing in comps there got it down to a 7.

After I got back and got thru another 4 sets of irons, dunno how many drivers, wedges, putters etc, I managed to get down to a 2.9.

Even with the lack of play this couple of months, I can still manage a 5-6.

Being fitted definitely makes u play better.

The equipment today definitely makes it easier to hit the ball. More people can make par rather than like last time where par can be achieved by lesser mortals.
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:46 pm

Agreed, getting fitted definitely helps. I know a 7ft guy who played badly with his irons, standard length. He didnt know anything about custom fitting and just hated the game. He got his irons extended, bent, and has been improving from a 24HCP to a 15 HCP in just a couple of months, just from getting correctly fitting clubs.

Custom fitting helps to lay the foundation, that's my 2 cents. S70B, what do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:57 pm

I look at the game as a whole for the individual.

As an absolute beginner, Getting fitted just does not make sense financially cos after u try it out w a couple of lessons, you might think the game is boring or just not for u. Big waste of money.

After u try it out and decides that golf is a game u wanna persue, I highly recommend getting fitted to carry on. True ur swingspeed during that period will not be very high and if u practice more, it will definitely increase but lie angles, length and grip size will not vary alot.

Speaking of lie angles, definitely get it fixed. I'm a believer of dynamic fitting cos I have changed the way I set up to the ball and even when standing taller now, my impact is good for 2* flat.

Good discussion. I will be making the 6hr drive back to Atlanta now. Will respond tonite.
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:02 pm

not entirely true, except in some cases. I'd use inline skating as an example -- if you ty to learn to skate with a $50 cheap-ass Made in God-Know-Where pair of skates, you're not going to enjoy skating and will easily give it up. On the other hand, getting a decent pair of skates that fits well and comfortably, getting the right protective gear can make the learning process fun, and it becomes a long-term sport for the individual.

If I could do it all again, I would have bought a loose 6i or 7i, get a fitter to make sure the shaft, length and lie is right for me (come on, how much can THAT cost?), and head over to the range for a couple of lessons. Next purchase would be a used SW ($50?) and a decent putter (used Odyssey White hot putters don't cost much these days), then more practice, and try my hand at the executive courses scattered around Singapore.

I'm also a big fan of dynamic fitting, thanks to DGman for opening my eyes

Have a safe drive. ATL is damn good fun and a nice place to live, according to a fellow ATLian buddy of mine here in Dubai.
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:47 am

Just arrived. Its oni a nitestop.

WRT ur post, thats oni true if u intend to continue in the game mate. I know a couple of guys who after their 10 lesson package gave up entirely cos they found it boring and not for them. So, what to do with their equipment if they went and got fitted?

Most brand new beginners in Sg now start lessons without clubs as most of the schools provide the equipment. Some of the students I see are not very into the game either even after a few lessons.

Get a fitted set oni if u intend to carry on with the game. Otherwise, its gonna be wasted $$ if u dun like the game.

_________________
Stay Thirsty My Friends...
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:56 pm

I think you misunderstood me. I am not advocating buying a full set and getting it fitted. I am advocating getting 1 loose 6 iron and getting it fitted, then later get a wedge and putter and practice from there till ready to try a round on an executive course.
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Duval_S
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:20 pm

I think at the end of it all, the question at least I ask myself is 'What do I want out of this game called Golf"? And henceforth, the birth of the following types of golfers:

1. Truly brilliant: Those who took up golf with the sole aim of excelling in it...
2. The 'IN-thing' : Those took up becos look good mah...and so many people taking up....most likely with the mindset...'cunt play good...at least look good'
3. The 'Realist': Very pragmatic golfer...many times perceived to be pessimistic golfer...easily satisfied...
4. The sky the limit golfer: The one who think that he/she is like Tiger....(in golf sense).....always think that the next shot with the same physique, skill and talent ...will always be better....macam....money can buy universe mentality (figure of speech only)

I for once used to be a combo of #1 and #4.....but then kena suan by my fren.....he said ' , don want to train, score XX still complain'....then on, I become #3
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blee67
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PostSubject: Re: bo liao thoughts on golf   Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:35 pm

Duval_S,

Could not agree with you more..
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