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nientsu
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:46 pm

I beg to differ alan.

I think its ok to feedback to your coach how u feel. The difference here is the delivery of it all.

If you tell the coach that you are getting ripped off by him bc hen bluddy hell disappear to tok to siao mei mei....than of cos, you would expect a negative reaction.

If you tell him that you don get some of the things he said and whether he could spend a lilttle more time explaning and going thru again the basics. I don see why he sud reject you.
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alangolf
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:54 pm

nientsu wrote:
I beg to differ alan.

I think its ok to feedback to your coach how u feel. The difference here is the delivery of it all.

If you tell the coach that you are getting ripped off by him bc hen bluddy hell disappear to tok to siao mei mei....than of cos, you would expect a negative reaction.

If you tell him that you don get some of the things he said and whether he could spend a lilttle more time explaning and going thru again the basics. I don see why he sud reject you.

i agreed with you and know what u mean. but certain things difficult to express in words... so i seem to state otherwise im my post (pardon my bad english). it's quite situational.

I just don't agree that not confronting him = coward
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:39 pm

Its not our asian character to confront people, its not normal for us, that is a trait. However, if I were to put in different perspective whereby your relationship with the coach will be more difficult and eventually, you will be all bottle up. Wouldn't you then start thinking about talking with the person.

I think we all in our own ways need to learn how to approach the subject and be firm to ensure interest are protect. The term confrontation is not a good thing but should only be used when all else fails.

Also trying to relate to my experience in Keppel Driving range, I have seen exceptional show of professionalism from pro golfers (although, i didnt train there), the coaches there are committed and not spend their full concentration with the students. If you are not getting what you deserve, you should be talking a 1-2-1 with the person.

Golf Guru's
I would like your views with regards to the students you take on? In this situation what would you do?
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:50 pm

Alan, not confronting the pro does not make the student a coward. Coming to a public forum and knifing him in the back without first attempting resolution through direct dialogue does.

Hope that explains the difference
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:56 pm

Ghoonk, i agree and disagree. Comparing note and sharing experience for me is acceptable. But talking bad i.e bad mouthing, then yes. In the lines of conversation here that i believe the forumers have matured enough to stay clear that so far.
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:58 pm

Agreed. That's why it is important to be able to distinguish where the line is. It's alright to ask if a certain behaviour is fine, but to slime a coach and the school he works for crosses the line. Ultimately, it is up to the forum admins to advise.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:03 pm

I would say that reporting something factual or asking questions is fine. However, we do not wish to see personal attacks on individuals or organizations without basis.

Such personal attacks or comments are hard to prove and it is always difficult for us to tell if it is genuine or someone with personal grudges seeking a quick way to get even.

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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:30 pm

ghoonk wrote:
Alan, not confronting the pro does not make the student a coward. Coming to a public forum and knifing him in the back without first attempting resolution through direct dialogue does.

Hope that explains the difference

Maybe its just me. I'd rather tell the person up front. I don like the thought of saying everything is fine in front of this person, then go forum and hamtum him big time. Its hypocritical to me.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:52 pm

Which is what we don't want to see too. The moderators cannot be going down to take lessons from him to verify if it is true.

And sometimes it may turn out otherwise or there's a gd reason. Thus we do not encourage personal attacks etc. This isn't about freedom of speech issue. Responsible media owners would never allow such mudslinging. If we do, what next? Someone else come in and accuse you? Who are we to believe? We are not detectives nor judges

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alangolf
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:38 pm

Actually i can understand both side's view. It's a judgement call if a thread should be deleted. There's always differeing views. That's why some same MDA should interfere in World Cup, some say no (I hope FIFA will relent, it's a shame if we've to pay the 'ransom' Evil or Very Mad)

I just hope the boundary is not too restrictive here. Thanks for running the forum.
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:02 pm

We do not want to moderate too excessively which is why this thread is still here. But we try to steer conversation away from personal attacks that may get out of hand. Moreover, we are only hearing one side of the story. Hope you understand

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golfoooo
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:24 pm

The coach we are talking about is the PRESIDENT & Examinaor of AMGTF! Anyone know about this organization he is president for? Is it subsidary or USGTF?
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jeronlee
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:26 am

thanks bro seiko. indeed, it was a very ignorant post to find out if my learning experience is the norm, that's all. it was never intended to smear anybody's reputation and put him out of business.

to be fair to my coach, he didn't show us black face when we raise our concerns to him. in fact, he even called me yesterday to tell me that we could show up earlier for our next lesson and he could spend more time with us.

Seiko wrote:

Bro ghoonk, I think jeron is a newbie and he was unsure its the norm when his pro MIA during the lesson. So he is gathering everyone's feedback! Jeron has spoken to his pro directly about their concerns and hopefully things works well for them.

Jeron's original intention means no harm! Very Happy
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jeronlee
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:45 am

on a separate note, the package i signed up includes a couple of lessons on the green. i'm assuming i ought to get my own set of clubs fairly soon.

don't mind getting a used set but being a newbie, i'm totally clueless of what to get for my wife and myself - yes, we are picking up the game together.

understand that golf house and pan west are having sale now but are the staff there knowledgeable enough to recommend based on golfers needs and not commission?
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:47 am

Personally, i find it more cost effective to get a used set (really hard to damage irons, wedges and drivers), and get fitted for them. if you are tall or short, the clubs may end up being too upright or too flat for you, resulting in tendency to hook or slice your shots on correct impact, resulting you modifying your swing off the ideal one in order to hit the ball straight.
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:48 am

Good to hear that the pro is taking feedback constructively. All's well that ends well

jeronlee wrote:
thanks bro seiko. indeed, it was a very ignorant post to find out if my learning experience is the norm, that's all. it was never intended to smear anybody's reputation and put him out of business.

to be fair to my coach, he didn't show us black face when we raise our concerns to him. in fact, he even called me yesterday to tell me that we could show up earlier for our next lesson and he could spend more time with us.

Seiko wrote:

Bro ghoonk, I think jeron is a newbie and he was unsure its the norm when his pro MIA during the lesson. So he is gathering everyone's feedback! Jeron has spoken to his pro directly about their concerns and hopefully things works well for them.

Jeron's original intention means no harm! Very Happy
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nientsu
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:48 am

go get a second hand set for a start. You can get it at Joe golf at kreta ayer, or at far east shopping centre.

Once you stabilise your swing, and get even more 'poisoned' by the game, you can then get a special set u call ur own Laughing
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jeronlee
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:12 am

did a google and found the address of creative golf by joe. as for far east shopping centre, there seems to be quite a no. of shops there, any recommendation?

also, what's a reasonable price range for a beginner's set - both mens and ladies if there's any difference. don't wanna be upsell and overspend on a beginner set.

i like the idea of investing in a special set call my own only after i get better or more poisoned by the game Smile
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:35 am

I usually go to Leisure Sports (B1) and Greenfield Golf (2nd floor)
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gomjgo
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:42 am

I'm not a Pro/coach of any association. But I do hope to achieve that kind of playing ability one day. Be it constant high 70 or playing below par.

I'm very new in this forum but I've heard comments about GR's Sunny. As KK had already mentioned, "intolerance towards criticisms and challenging ideas". It may be true, half true or not true. I don't know as I have never meet him. So I can't make any comments.

But from what Sunny has written till now, I strongly agree that he is right on this issue. We can't smear a association reputation just because of a few rotten eggs. Be it SPGA, PGA, APGA, CPGA, USGTF, AMGTF or whatever certification. As there is always black sheep in any organization.

I also agree with KK point of view that if a rotten apple is not single out, more golfers - be it beginner, intermediate or advance will become victim again. Only issue here is his linking up of this coach with his certification association. But now if turn out that this episode may be due to the lack of communication between the coach and student.

With the advancement of electronic media, it is now extremely difficult to pass judgment on anyone. Anyone with a hidden agenda may bad mouth anyone.... A student who demand extra 'service' from his/her coach but doesn't achieve it, may also criticize his coach as bad . A lazy student who doesn't spend time to practice and play may also criticize top coach (leadbetter & gang) as lousy and over-rated.

It may be the other way round, a lousy coach who is highly skill in PR but lack in teaching skill may win many praise from his fan student. But is he a truly good coach?

After encountering a few coaches myself, who is good or who is bad is no longer clear....confused Everyone has their own niche swing mechanic and teaching methodology, I'm just a mirror image of each of them. Some may proclaim that the coach who help to lower your scores definitely the best. But what if the student can't comprehend or perform what was taught? Or what was taught can't blend well with the student swing profile? Maybe the student may think that by just paying a few grand to a coach, he will be the next Tiger without all the hard work?

My current coach told me that if I expect miracle, then Mr Gates (if he plays golf) for sure will be the best player in the world.

This is not to say that the student has no bullet and at the mercy of the coach. The student must be mindful that after all they are the paymaster. They can still hired and fired...But it may too late as $$ already out from his wallet.

That is why there is a saying, find a good coach is difficult....finding a good student is even more difficult..

And when this story of who is more superior, who is better in teaching will ends.....it will only happen if everyone give up playing golf and stop attending lesson...Unlikely it will ever occurs...as the name in GOLF already say it all >> Go On Learning Forever..
Very Happy Very Happy
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sunny
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:34 am

Let me clarify some stuff here. If you look thru the posts, I nor any of the moderators had moderated any criticism on myself or the team. Thus where did this intolerance of criticism or opposing ideas come from?

That is because we try to moderate threads like this. It is kind of strange that I am using my own reputation to defend someone I don't know and a sch that I do not have association with. Isn't it silly? But the reason why we moderate such posts is not because we are intolerant but rather we do not want claims without basis to be floating ard the forum. Imagine someone come in and smear your reputation or your company's or sch's. Would you be happy if we allow it under 'freedom of speech'? Eg, if abc comes in today and start saying you're selling fakes and stealing from others, would you be happy?

Such claims are difficult to prove and we only hope that common sense would pravail if we moderate such posts. We are not taking sides but rather making sure that such issues do not get out of hand. Criticise us all you want. We will defend our actions or concede if we are in the wrong. But coming in here to say stuff on schools or ppl who are not even aware of it isn't really fair right? That is why I insisted that khokar must quote from a verified source and do not accept a generic blog to substantiate the attack on the school. If acting responsibly is misconstrued as intolerance of criticism and opposing ideas, then unfortunately I would choose to go down this route again even at my personal expense because my own conscience tell me so.

Hope this clarifies our stance on such issues.

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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:40 am

jeronlee wrote:
did a google and found the address of creative golf by joe. as for far east shopping centre, there seems to be quite a no. of shops there, any recommendation?

also, what's a reasonable price range for a beginner's set - both mens and ladies if there's any difference. don't wanna be upsell and overspend on a beginner set.

i like the idea of investing in a special set call my own only after i get better or more poisoned by the game Smile

It is good to note your relationship with your coach is still good. There are so many ways one could teach. Unfortunately your innocent post to learn more got you more than what you bargain for. It is sad, but that's the reality of this world. There is no such thing as THE perfect coach. Even Tiger Woods and Ernie Els change coach. And mine you, none of their coaches play better golf than them.

As for investing in golf equipment, you will end up with tons of advice from people here. Most meant well. Some not sound. Best thing to do, check with your coach. He knows your swing. He knows your potential. He is the BEST person to advise you. I am sure ALL coaches will want their students to have the right equipment so it make their teaching easier. Here's an example: The coach cannot past a lady beginner a set of men's steel shaft club. The lady will suffer because the flex may be too stiff or it may be too heavy, and she will surely not be able to swing well purely by virtue of the fact that it is too heavy. If she is not able to swing well, she COULD find fault with the coach's teaching. Or she could simply give up golf. Both instances will not be advantageous to the coach, right?

So please go check with your coach before you buy that club. And buying a set of club because it is the cheapest is the saddest way to begin golf. Most golfers loose more in the end when the clubs they buy turn out to be a total mismatch.

All the best.
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:51 am

sunny wrote:
Let me clarify some stuff here. If you look thru the posts, I nor any of the moderators had moderated any criticism on myself or the team. Thus where did this intolerance of criticism or opposing ideas come from?

That is because we try to moderate threads like this. It is kind of strange that I am using my own reputation to defend someone I don't know and a sch that I do not have association with. Isn't it silly? But the reason why we moderate such posts is not because we are intolerant but rather we do not want claims without basis to be floating ard the forum. Imagine someone come in and smear your reputation or your company's or sch's. Would you be happy if we allow it under 'freedom of speech'? Eg, if abc comes in today and start saying you're selling fakes and stealing from others, would you be happy?

Such claims are difficult to prove and we only hope that common sense would pravail if we moderate such posts. We are not taking sides but rather making sure that such issues do not get out of hand. Criticise us all you want. We will defend our actions or concede if we are in the wrong. But coming in here to say stuff on schools or ppl who are not even aware of it isn't really fair right? That is why I insisted that khokar must quote from a verified source and do not accept a generic blog to substantiate the attack on the school. If acting responsibly is misconstrued as intolerance of criticism and opposing ideas, then unfortunately I would choose to go down this route again even at my personal expense because my own conscience tell me so.

Hope this clarifies our stance on such issues.

I have been here less than a week. Golf Republic is fortunate to have a moderator like you. You have a good conscience. That's a good guide. I am already liking it here. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:02 pm

Straightman wrote:
jeronlee wrote:
did a google and found the address of creative golf by joe. as for far east shopping centre, there seems to be quite a no. of shops there, any recommendation?

also, what's a reasonable price range for a beginner's set - both mens and ladies if there's any difference. don't wanna be upsell and overspend on a beginner set.

i like the idea of investing in a special set call my own only after i get better or more poisoned by the game Smile

It is good to note your relationship with your coach is still good. There are so many ways one could teach. Unfortunately your innocent post to learn more got you more than what you bargain for. It is sad, but that's the reality of this world. There is no such thing as THE perfect coach. Even Tiger Woods and Ernie Els change coach. And mine you, none of their coaches play better golf than them.

As for investing in golf equipment, you will end up with tons of advice from people here. Most meant well. Some not sound. Best thing to do, check with your coach. He knows your swing. He knows your potential. He is the BEST person to advise you. I am sure ALL coaches will want their students to have the right equipment so it make their teaching easier. Here's an example: The coach cannot past a lady beginner a set of men's steel shaft club. The lady will suffer because the flex may be too stiff or it may be too heavy, and she will surely not be able to swing well purely by virtue of the fact that it is too heavy. If she is not able to swing well, she COULD find fault with the coach's teaching. Or she could simply give up golf. Both instances will not be advantageous to the coach, right?

So please go check with your coach before you buy that club. And buying a set of club because it is the cheapest is the saddest way to begin golf. Most golfers loose more in the end when the clubs they buy turn out to be a total mismatch.

All the best.

I agree with most of what you said except for the part about equipment. Not all coaches are great at understanding the depth of how much equipment can influence swing/flight. A coach is who to go to to get your swing looked at, but a fitter is who you go to to get your equipment set up right. As they say, before climbing Everest, make sure your equipment is right.
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PostSubject: Re: golf instructor MIA during lesson   Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:57 pm

ghoonk wrote:
Straightman wrote:
jeronlee wrote:
did a google and found the address of creative golf by joe. as for far east shopping centre, there seems to be quite a no. of shops there, any recommendation?

also, what's a reasonable price range for a beginner's set - both mens and ladies if there's any difference. don't wanna be upsell and overspend on a beginner set.

i like the idea of investing in a special set call my own only after i get better or more poisoned by the game Smile

It is good to note your relationship with your coach is still good. There are so many ways one could teach. Unfortunately your innocent post to learn more got you more than what you bargain for. It is sad, but that's the reality of this world. There is no such thing as THE perfect coach. Even Tiger Woods and Ernie Els change coach. And mine you, none of their coaches play better golf than them.

As for investing in golf equipment, you will end up with tons of advice from people here. Most meant well. Some not sound. Best thing to do, check with your coach. He knows your swing. He knows your potential. He is the BEST person to advise you. I am sure ALL coaches will want their students to have the right equipment so it make their teaching easier. Here's an example: The coach cannot past a lady beginner a set of men's steel shaft club. The lady will suffer because the flex may be too stiff or it may be too heavy, and she will surely not be able to swing well purely by virtue of the fact that it is too heavy. If she is not able to swing well, she COULD find fault with the coach's teaching. Or she could simply give up golf. Both instances will not be advantageous to the coach, right?

So please go check with your coach before you buy that club. And buying a set of club because it is the cheapest is the saddest way to begin golf. Most golfers loose more in the end when the clubs they buy turn out to be a total mismatch.

All the best.

I agree with most of what you said except for the part about equipment. Not all coaches are great at understanding the depth of how much equipment can influence swing/flight. A coach is who to go to to get your swing looked at, but a fitter is who you go to to get your equipment set up right. As they say, before climbing Everest, make sure your equipment is right.

Aboslutely agree with you. Also agree with you on getting the equipment right before climbing Everest. So go look for a really good club fitter.
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