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 Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one

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DGman
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PostSubject: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:41 am

Well it has been a busy start to the year cos the new irons with conforming grooves have arrived and lots of stuff needs to be fixed. Unlike previous season, this year is different with the question on every pros mind...how will the new groove affect them?

Just a roundup to give the average joes a better understanding of what happened behind the scene.

December 2009

Martin Rominger Cleveland CG7 tour irons with DG S400 tour issue shafts arrived at BFG. Took loft and lie measurements of his new sets, check grooves to ensure compliance, check if his grips are V-55 rib M58 with 2 sheet wraps.

Adjusted his set of irons to the exact specs sheet we keep, some lofts and most lies. After his fitting, we put in a new BFG Graman 8 series on his new Monster 8.5 degree driver. Built a Bronze MS Zen putter for him to try out.

5th January 2010

Gavin Flint came in with his new Ping irons. tried them for 2 games but did not like the tentative (spinny) ball flight on his new X-flex KBS shaft.

We check for groove compliance and made some loft and lie adjustments according to the specs on record and he went out to hit balls. Came back the next afternoon and he commented that the impact is better but the ball flight is still tentative. Pulled out his old school satin Project X 6.0 and installed them on his Ping irons.

He came back the next afternoon and i can see the smile on his face. Went on to get him to hit his full set of irons and wedges on the Trackman to confirm distance gap. Made a couple of small changes to the loft and everything's good to go. Finally we check his putters, made some loft change and give it a good tap to have everything on neutral at address.

Also on 5th January

LCB came in with his new Callaway Legacy irons on DG S400 tour issued shafts, this was easy...Check for groove compliance and adjusted his set according to his specs on record, rip out a few grips to make a couple of swing weight adjustments.

Adjusted the lie and loft on his new Odyssey putters and ordered a spare Aldila Proto-by-you hybrid 90 in X flex for his 2 iron hybrid.

18th January

MM came in with his new Callaway prototype irons with S flex KBS shafts. Checked for loft and lie and make adjustment on lie and replaced grips with his favourite Victory Cord M58 with 2 sheet wrap.

Put in the F360 in his Zen PN with sight dot and changed a new GP grip. Unlikely to see this in play in the near future as he is obliged to use Odyssey.

He went to played in the SGA and came back after the 2nd day, shaking his head. He commented the irons are not sitting right and was hitting thin for the 2 days. Checked the sole and calculated the bounce on the set...Horrors, the factory had bend the irons to his specs and some of them looked like it was strengthen up to 3 degrees. Worse they seem to have added offset to the clubs....MM knows his stuff and he asked me what can be done.

There are two possibilities, bend it back to the natural loft or do something only reserve for special request - its known as the cross bend - deloft the iron by 2.5 degrees at the base of the hosel nearest to the face, then increase the loft at the hosel nearest to the shaft by 2 degrees. He said he has never seen this sort of adjustment, but when he lay down the 6 iron, he could immediately see a reduction in offset and a squaring of the sole at address. the iron also set up naturally at a neutral to open position instead of closed. By doing this we can also change the bounce on the irons and allow him to hit the ball higher on the face. However if he traps the ball like LCB, the bounce may be less of an issue.

He is visibly pleased and we went on to bend each piece. Must have taken more than an hour but that’s what we have to do to give our players the best support. He went home with his cross bend irons and told me he will be at the range the next morning.

Came back and only brought his PW which he felt can be improved. Did another bounce check and did another cross bend (+3 and -1.5). The bounce was reduced from 11 to 7 degree. He seems satisfied but i told him that the next option as a simple sole grind to nip off any undesired bounce or apex of the natural grind.

He SMS me the next day and told me everything is feeling great now...and I wish him a great season ahead.

Finally 21th January 2009

Chris Rodgers X-22 Tour and Diablo 3 and 4 irons with DG X100 shafts arrived from Dubai. We made the usual loft and lie adjsutments, check for grooves compliance and gave grind 2 of his 4 wedges to accommodate his wedge play. Re-installed his favourite V-55 M60R. I was concerned that his new irons were like 2 to 3 SW more than his specs on record.

Came to pick up his irons today and he went out to the range to hit his new irons. He called me from the range...he obviously got problems with swing weight and asked me for options. Got him to bring back the irons, put the 7 iron on the propane and took out the lead pin, weight it and found it to be a tad heavy.

Pulled out all the irons, cleaned out the shafts and took out all the lead pin and re-installed the irons. We will individually adjust every irons to the exact specs on record. Late night work again and i am quite sure the irons will work for Chris, once the swing weight are adjusted.

What did we observed and learned?

Everyone has different needs especially pros who played at the highest level and demand consistency. Some are more visual led like MM, some more feel led like CR. Those who are less visual led can use irons with different offset like GF and MR but may be more technique led. LCB is most particular about his grip, the right size, the right colour and the right softness.

Unlike the PGA tour players, the Asian players can get a bit more attention if they are fitted from ground instead of making changes to pre-fitted clubs.

The impact of the new grooves seems to affect the shorter irons and also the shots off the rough where they may lose 30% of the spin.

I hope you have found something useful in this thread and you may want to ask yourself if you are visual, feel or technique led.

hopefully our work will also be reflected on the players performance this year.

Cheers….DGman
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gomjgo
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:58 am

Wonder when will be the day when I enter DGman's BM office and he treat me like a 'real' playing pro instead of a nuisance shopper who disappear and reappear after 3 quarters of a year. Maybe I should sleep early and start to dream.... Very Happy
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botak
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:04 am

RESPECT!!!
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JetA1
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:33 am

A good inside view on wat's happening behind the scene. 2 thumbs up!!
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ghoonk
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:22 am

DGman, thanks for the write-up. Good to know that you guys can work magic on changing offsets, cos it looks like I have some more work for you Very Happy
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:42 am

is the cross-bending service available to us common-folk? are the ikasus cross-bendable? is there a limit to how much a forged iron can cross bend? or only the really soft irons can take that kind of stress?

anyway...



No picture with DGMan or jeff besides these pros? you know you know like some of those food stalls... i think we need a channel u golf king banner up in your shop somewhere. :p
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:05 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
is the cross-bending service available to us common-folk? are the ikasus cross-bendable? is there a limit to how much a forged iron can cross bend? or only the really soft irons can take that kind of stress?

anyway...



No picture with DGMan or jeff besides these pros? you know you know like some of those food stalls... i think we need a channel u golf king banner up in your shop somewhere. :p

Firstly MC, i dun think you will ever need such service cos seriously looking at the sweet spot hitting on MM's old irons, i think he deserve such treatment. THe marking on his club is somehow the size of the golf ball.

I was there when MM did the adjustments, boy, it was no easy task for DGman and Jeff who was generally moving from the room to the lie bending machine almost every 5 mins. I will call this "Precision Fitting" for Precision players. Even when MM took his irons and do a simple swing on a piece of paper on the floor, he is still always touching the same spot on the paper without the paper moving more than a inch.

Good to know that if one day i will ever be at that level and need such adjustments, there will be someone i know who will able to accomodate my needs. To DGman and Jeff, I am IMPRESSED!
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mUAr_cHEe
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:14 am

eh chairman sir... simple question mah...

i did contemplate of getting ikasus before, but i just dun like the offset...

say for wedges only? one 53 and one 57... if we cross bend the off-set away... what would he new lofts be?
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shotah
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:25 am

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
eh chairman sir... simple question mah...

i did contemplate of getting ikasus before, but i just dun like the offset...

Maybe the offset will improve your accuracy and erased those occasional shanking??? Smile
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alucard
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:26 am

Now I'm scared to go BFG to get fitted. My level too low to compare to those pros who go there. Sad
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botak
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:31 am

Boss,

Who was that ang moh pro that was at BFG on the 8th Jan?
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Khorkar
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:32 am

Eric,

Question abt this subject:

- Read somewhere that average tour player's driver length is 44.5", is this true for most?

- Various player have different requirements, how does the manufacturer caters for them or they dont? Could it be what we have is what you get kinda thing?
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:23 am

Adding i inch roughly equates to 2 mph. But only if you cannot hit it precisely, there is no great advantage in having a longer driver.

Most of the pros here 45.5 is norm.

For most players, 45 is ideal and if there is a need to improve your confidence, i suggest you choke down an inch or more AK style.

Botak, it must have been CR who was shortening his old X22 when he got back from UK.

When the opportunity arise, maybe we should organise a game or two for you guys....i am sure the pros don't mind a tuneup game now and then.

Alucard...no scare lah, at least you know you are likely to be in good hands...haha

MC - Ikasu Wedge - NO STOCK, ask so much for what!

Kenneth - i think Jeremy will beat you to the cross dress...opps i mean cross bend.

DGman
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and68low
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:25 am

The Best thing that happen to me in my so call golfing experience,that have made my golf game enjoyable is to come across a great club fitter.

The club fitter who ever he or she maybe, the average golfer will be able to experience the enjoyment and sastifaction(does not mean playing the same scores as pro har!) of what DGman had done for the pros he had mention. The common traits of average golfer is that they doubt the club fitter advice and always want sometime that is not within their capabilities( those XXX and TP thingy). Or hit a swing speed that record on the track man which can be duplicate once in ten shots and demand thats the shot have to be read and used

Go with a open mind and my advice is not to be HL,KL or i am sure the club fitter will make your game of golf siok siok!

If you own a XXX or TP thingy dont worry! if you are good enough i am sure the club fitter will be also please to acknowledge it.
Ps, I am looking for TP thingy if reject by club fitter, PM me!(only for collection la)
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alucard
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:49 am

Haha dgman, ok then. When I'm in to get fitted I hope you will b patient and 'gentle' with me. Lol
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siaw8
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:27 pm

Boss,

I SALUTE you!!!!
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Technospaz
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:28 pm

Great post, boss Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:04 pm

Hi dgman

great post, and this is what we truely call it as professionalism and commitment to customer satisfaction.

Very impress !!

Snowman
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slinger
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:13 pm

time for me to go do a swing analysis......


but i think DGman will tell me "NO TIME"..........sigh
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jurongtiger
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:31 pm

Very interesting and informative Eric!
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mervyntan
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:10 pm

mUAr_cHEe wrote:
is the cross-bending service available to us common-folk? are the ikasus cross-bendable? is there a limit to how much a forged iron can cross bend? or only the really soft irons can take that kind of stress?

anyway...



No picture with DGMan or jeff besides these pros? you know you know like some of those food stalls... i think we need a channel u golf king banner up in your shop somewhere. :p

on behalf of MASTER.............

NO STOCK!!!!!!!!
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lennylim
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:17 pm

eric,
thanks for sharing... v interesting.
i for sure won't need that level of fitting, but u and jeff still always demonstrate the same level of professionalism and service to us hackers out here.
kudos to u guys.
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:02 am

sorry to bump this one...

2 out of 5 is not a bad start....haha

lets wee what happens to the other 3...

oh we must add the latest JHan....and his lovely Titleist irons.

btw MM is coming in for a pit stop today. i have to be in the shop by 11.

DGman


Last edited by DGman on Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Right_sided_coach
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:03 am

Secret Weapons. Nice work Eric
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DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:06 am

actually Gavin was really having problems with his X/S shafts in his new Pings. we found out later that the shafts were mixed. the X in the longer irons and the S in the shorter ones.

these were installed by the Ping guys in Australia. now he is a happy camper with his old school Project X 6.0.

Cheers....DGman
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PostSubject: Re: Fitting for the Pros - this is a long one   Today at 8:08 am

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